Will Ranger Capstone Stop the Ranged DPS Hate?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Sure, but that same ranger would also do better dps pulling out dual lightning rapiers.

maybe... but if not specced & tweaked for it he'd also take ****-tons more damage... depends on what the situation calls for.. DPS is not the only ingredient in a quest/raid completion. Most people talking smack have no clue how to play a ranged ranger.

[mystoryflavor]

Rangers weren't meant to do massive ranged dps obviously but the are still REALLY nice to have around, when they're not idiots anyways.. rangers are supposed to kill the casters from a distance so nobody gets flamestruck and ect. A good ranger doesn't jump around kiting all the mobs while the party yells at him to stop moving.. A good rangers kills the casters weakens the mobs then switches to his duel wielding weapons and helps clean up to.

The +25% increase won't help OVERALL dps for ranged attacks but will help eliminate enemies from a distance faster, killing casters weakening mobs 25% more effectively, which is pretty **** nice in a lot of cases.

[dragonofsteel2]

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Im currently playing a ranged battlecleric solo build untill i get 1750 favor on a new server. You can imagine the hate im getting when I do occasionally join a group, because you cant solo everything. I plan on making a full ranger when I unlock 32 point builds on this server.

Heres an example of the hate im talking about, not exactly a fair experiment because its many hated aspects in one. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190237

But you get the point, more people focus on the fact that ranged dps sucks than it being a crazy battle cleric build! hell i even posted it in a forum that gets barley any traffic.

So Lets Discuss.

Do you think the ranger capstone (25% ranged speed increase) will make ranged dps respectable again?

Why, or why not?

I really do not hate any builds, just do not enjoy sitting back and snipping. Do not think should do no were near same dps as melee's, because will make the game easier at that point. (Boring) Now if others want fine does not bother me, up to Tribune in the end anyway. Although do hate the fact that ranger's seen as Archer class when D&D had a Archers class. Rangers were woodsmen that new how to use bow/swords and do lot wilderness things (to me light tank with little more dps), but hey that just my opinion. Oh yeah never new the Army rangers to just use range weapons, always thought they were the elite force.

Rangers weren't meant to do massive ranged dps obviously but the are still REALLY nice to have around, when they're not idiots anyways.. rangers are supposed to kill the casters from a distance so nobody gets flamestruck and ect. A good ranger doesn't jump around kiting all the mobs while the party yells at him to stop moving.. A good rangers kills the casters weakens the mobs then switches to his duel wielding weapons and helps clean up to.

The +25% increase won't help OVERALL dps for ranged attacks but will help eliminate enemies from a distance faster, killing casters weakening mobs 25% more effectively, which is pretty **** nice in a lot of cases.

See again reads the word "Ranger" things means have to do massive range dps. Reality they woodsmen if go back to Pen&Paper, which had the Archer Class. Rangers were little of everything a hybrid if want to say. So real easy to have many different opinions about them. (Kind like hunters is another way can look at them)

[Aranticus]

maybe... but if not specced & tweaked for it he'd also take ****-tons more damage... depends on what the situation calls for.. DPS is not the only ingredient in a quest/raid completion. Most people talking smack have no clue how to play a ranged ranger.

sorry gotta call you out on this one. i have 2 rangers. at low levels ranged can be very useful due to lower to hit (twf penalties), squishiness, lower AC. urden soloed all the way to L10 after which the amount of time spent ranging mobs makes it painfully long to level. this is compounded by the fact that some casters can heal themselves

true DPS is not the only ingredient in a quest/raid but tell me, out of all the quests and raids we have, what is the percentage of completion is dependant on killing a boss? of the raids, vod, hound, dq, dragon, shroud, abbot and reaver all have a heavy reliance on dps for completion, titan is less straight forward with the pillars

DPS is not necessary for all these quests but when you have a low DPS group, someone, often the healers, will have to pick up the slack. if you are out of consumables and sp, what next? a higher DPS reduces the chance of this happening

yes alot of people talking smack doesnt know how to play a ranged toon. i also happen to notice that you dun have a ranged toon in your sig. how qualified are you to make this statement?

[Kaldaka]

...DPS is not necessary for all these quests but when you have a low DPS group, someone, often the healers, will have to pick up the slack. if you are out of consumables and sp, what next? pray you get passed a mnemonic?? a higher DPS reduces the chance of this happening...

You sir have won the internet

[Ganak]

Ranged combat when applied correctly is multi-faceted. As others pointed out it gives you the ability to take out priority targets, mitigate some aggro from the tanks until they take out their current opponents, and pull targets through traps or AOE spells.

Add that manshot with improved precise shot on a well built archer with great weapons is the best situational dps in the game.

[Xyfiel]

From a month or so ago, when I was the only level 20 Ranger(DS) on beta:

Silver longbow
Bab 20 57
Hasted 64 (57*1.125)(12.5%)
Capstone 65 (57*1.14)(14%)
Capstone & hasted 71 (57*1.25)(25%)

Do you think 7 more attacks per minute will stop the hate?

[binnsr]

To answer the OP: No.

In response to the quote.

1) Wop isn't DPS

2) Wop won't help when they don't die from Con and you get dungeon alert from not killing them.

Isnt that what we need in the reaver though? Air ellies to have no save/no check knockdown?

Oh wait...

WoP is currently effective DPS .. in august, WoE will replace it -- by the time the mob gets to you, they're 0 str and autocrit. A well-built repeater character is a terror in most quests .. especially if they've learned to circle-kite once the mobs close to melee range.

[maddmatt70]

WoP is currently effective DPS .. in august, WoE will replace it -- by the time the mob gets to you, they're 0 str and autocrit. A well-built repeater character is a terror in most quests .. especially if they've learned to circle-kite once the mobs close to melee range.

Why would you say this? Wop is still better then WoE other then for rogues. Wop mobs are stunned and you get autocrit is > then just autocrit.

[Raithe]

Rangers weren't meant to do massive ranged dps obviously but the are still REALLY nice to have around, when they're not idiots anyways.. rangers are supposed to kill the casters from a distance so nobody gets flamestruck and ect. A good ranger doesn't jump around kiting all the mobs while the party yells at him to stop moving.. A good rangers kills the casters weakens the mobs then switches to his duel wielding weapons and helps clean up to.

The +25% increase won't help OVERALL dps for ranged attacks but will help eliminate enemies from a distance faster, killing casters weakening mobs 25% more effectively, which is pretty **** nice in a lot of cases.

It is interesting that no one responded to this, as this is what I would say is the simple truth. I don't really care how much DPS my ranged is doing, because its doing infinitely more damage than I can otherwise achieve on my range-focused ranger when the mob is at ranged distance.

The only amendment I'd make to this is that according to Xyfiel, the bonus for the capstone is around 14% (probably coded at 15%).

[transtemporal]

maybe... but if not specced & tweaked for it he'd also take ****-tons more damage...

What? You wanna live forever?

Most people talking smack have no clue how to play a ranged ranger.

Thats true, but the best played ranged ranger in the world is never going to pull aggro off an equivalently equipped twf ranger. Its not that ranged is bad dps, its just suboptimal.

[Raithe]

Thats true, but the best played ranged ranger in the world is never going to pull aggro off an equivalently equipped twf ranger. Its not bad dps, its just suboptimal.

Manyshot is more attacks per second than TWF and does not suffer from the reduced strength bonus to half of them. A ranger with a certain selection of bows and arrows can easily achieve a +9 enhancement bonus to weapon damage along with elemental, holy, and greater bane damage applying on every arrow.

Yes, a ranged ranger can most certainly pull aggro off from a dual-wielding tempest with very good equipment.

[transtemporal]

Yes, a ranged ranger can most certainly pull aggro off from a dual-wielding tempest with very good equipment.

With equivalent equipment? I doubt it. I was in a sorjek run last night with two rangers. One elf ranged (lightningii) and one dorf tempest (lightningii and something else, maybe a minii). The dorf and I (twf bbn minii khopesh) shuttled sorjek between us but the ranged dude didn't pull aggro off us once, not even at the start when he had a headstart, lol.

[Aranticus]

With equivalent equipment? I doubt it. I was in a sorjek run last night with two rangers. One elf ranged (lightningii) and one dorf tempest (lightningii and something else, maybe a minii). The dorf and I (twf bbn minii khopesh) shuttled sorjek between us but the ranged dude didn't pull aggro off us once, not even at the start when he had a headstart, lol.

agro is something alot of players do not understand. agro while dps dependant is not determined by dps alone. given no agro management items, skills, agro dependant on sustained damage OVER time. in vod, a monk can hold agro so long as he is given some lead time to build up agro to such a high level that the rest of the players will not grab agro

against a raid boss, a smart range player will let melees grab the agro and hold it. when the agro is firm, the range player can then let loose multishot or nukage if caster. the agro will not jump to the range player. i would say, the ranged player you are with is much better than most as he knows how to control agro

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

yes alot of people talking smack doesnt know how to play a ranged toon. i also happen to notice that you dun have a ranged toon in your sig. how qualified are you to make this statement?

Haha, I've been playing since Dec -06, so I have many toons that are not in my sig. I have 2 rangers as well. I play tempest and ranged. The way this game is going, I've really started enjoying my rangers more then ever. As for being qualified to chat about rangers? Checkmate.

agro is something alot of players do not understand. agro while dps dependant is not determined by dps alone. i would say, the ranged player you are with is much better than most as he knows how to control agro

QFT. Amen. Hallelujah.

However you are speaking to the wall in this thread with your last two words... way over many heads.....

[Aranticus]

Haha, I've been playing since Dec -06, so I have many toons that are not in my sig. I have 2 rangers as well. I play tempest and ranged. The way this game is going, I've really started enjoying my rangers more then ever. As for being qualified to chat about rangers? Checkmate.

reason i asked is because what you wrote doesnt exactly seem to me that you understand the dps dependancy of raids

QFT. Amen. Hallelujah.

However you are speaking to the wall in this thread with your last two words... way over many heads.....

no harm trying

[Angelus_dead]

With equivalent equipment?

Because there IS no equivalent equipment. Melee characters can spend an exotic weapon feat for 17-20/x3 crits, while ranged is stuck at 19-20/x3 (unless they use Silver Bow, which is ineffective compared to GS).

Ranged is also missing at least 5 per hit from Power Attack, and they're additionally missing Sneak Attack unless they're standing in melee distance.

[Angelus_dead]

Why would you say this? Wop is still better then WoE other then for rogues. Wop mobs are stunned and you get autocrit is > then just autocrit.

WOE is already giving the player a defensive advantage both before you reduce the stat to zero, and also after the stun timer would've expired. A single attack from a TWF with WOE is the equivalent of at least +1 AC +1 DR to your side.

[Angelus_dead]

you fail at reading. you dont have to kite spellcasters.

You fail at thinking.

Of course you don't have to kite spellcasters. Therefore the fact that you're using a ranged weapon gives you no benefit, and you might as well melee him so he dies faster and you can work on some other mob.

[binnsr]

Why would you say this? Wop is still better then WoE other then for rogues. Wop mobs are stunned and you get autocrit is > then just autocrit.

missed the stun part -- haven't been playing with my puncture builds on Llama much. either way, my rogue is still going to keep carrying his bodyfeeder of puncturing set as well as his weakening of enfeebling set