Feedback on Spellsinger Hagglebot build

[WilliamBraveheart]

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Warsinger Fingerlock
Level 15 Neutral Good Human Male
(15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 187
Spell Points: 772 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 8
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 15)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             18                    26

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 15)
Balance               3                    17
Bluff                 5                     8
Concentration         6                    24
Diplomacy             9                    26
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                9                    33
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            5                     8
Jump                  2                    16
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               9                    28
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      9                    31

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Haggle
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Haggle I
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Spellsinger I


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Haggle II


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Haggle III


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma II


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Bard Haggle IV

[Zenako]

Coinsider finding a spot for Human Versatility - namely Skill Boosts. Can give you better haggle numbers when actually doing the buying and selling.

Also I find that most spells land pretty well anyway without stuff like Heighten, and that songs fascinate with only the minimal skill points spent for spellsinger. I also found that later on, unless you are doing a lot of healing from spell points, that I was able to drop the Energy of the Music boosts in exchange for more haggle bonus. I end up using the toon for all my buying and selling, and hitting 60+ numbers makes a very noticeable difference.

[Impaqt]

Looks good except for one thing....

Why so many points into INT? Swim and Tumble certainly are not critical Bard Skills. Your not going CE/AC Build.

Seems a 10INT and 18CHR would be better for both Haggle and CC.

[WilliamBraveheart]

Thanks for the input.
I already had all of the haggle enhncements but made some changes to stats and feats to gain 4 more to haggle. Edited OP to show this.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Not bad. Nice alternative to my Mississippi Queen build.

A couple of points,

* I'd advise against heighten. Sounds good on paper, but its of little importance to a bard thats built correctly.

* Early on I would have pushed more spell pen, so you can get to owning sooner and more often. Your will based spells would thank you. Focus on haggle later in your build.

* Int should be a throwaway stat imo.

* No human versatility?

Remember, these are just opinions, not a requirement in any way. You can do well just as is....

Good luck with your bard!

[Rydin_Dirtay]

On my ss/haggle bard, I took extend at level 1. IMO you will be better off taking something other than SF:Haggle at level 1.

[Freeman]

On my ss/haggle bard, I took extend at level 1. IMO you will be better off taking something other than SF:Haggle at level 1.

Agreed. Take SF: UMD at level 1, since it is most needed at lower levels. Wait until you get to higher levels, then you can switch it out for SF: Haggle, since you shouldn't need the help with UMD. At sixth, take something else useful instead of a SF, such as something that will qualify you for Spellsinger. Even though you have the enhancement listed, you don't have a qualifying feat listed. I would suggest either Mental Toughness or one of the Spell Focus: Enchantments. In fact, by swapping out SF: UMD for Haggle later, you can fit both of the Spell Focuses into your build.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Take SF: UMD at level 1, since it is most needed at lower levels.

Debatable. I never took SF:UMD. Just never needed it... even at lower levels. At level 1, its pretty much unused. If he takes SF: Enchantment at level 1, he can use that math effectively out of the box. By ditching SF:UMD that opens up Greater Spell Penetration later on, which I feel is imperative for the type of CC this build will be able to throwdown.

But either way is good really.

[lOprahl]

Not bad. Nice alternative to my Mississippi Queen build.

A couple of points,

* I'd advise against heighten. Sounds good on paper, but its of little importance to a bard thats built correctly.

LoL not a fan of Heightened Glitterdust eh? ;p

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Debatable. I never took SF:UMD. Just never needed it... even at lower levels. At level 1, its pretty much unused. If he takes SF: Enchantment at level 1, he can use that math effectively out of the box. By ditching SF:UMD that opens up Greater Spell Penetration later on, which I feel is imperative for the type of CC this build will be able to throwdown.

But either way is good really.

I agree with you I would not take SF: UMD at level 1,
however,
Interesting how you find you didn't need SF: UMD, I have a SS/haggler similar to yours, and even with starting 18 CHA and all levelups in CHA, I still found my UMD a little lacking at levels, oh, say, 6,7,8. Maybe you ran around with Eagle's Splendor all the time, the Cartouche, and Heroism, or a +3 or +4 CHA item, eh? I guess that would do it.

On my bard, he had 22 or so CHA by then *and* the Cartouche and I found myself failing far too often on wand useage during levels 5-9.

But yeah, to the OP, I wouldn't take Skill Focus: UMD at level 1 at all. Take a feat that will help you right then, maybe your prereq for Spellsinger.