Make skills more useful...

[Kromize]

Ok Kromize I should have read you profile before I reply to you. You go to Nebraska Wesleyan University for Computer Science. What is you major there before I continue this post?

lol...this is as much of a reply as that one deserves... read carefully.

and, if don't recall, didn't dnd originally NOT have cross-class skills?

dnd is an everchanging game, why try to stay as close as possible to an imperfect version of it? Make this the best you can possibly make it, don't limit yourself. This is DDO, not dnd. Make it DDO, not dnd.

do realize that it doesn't matter if they give you full rank in UMD as you spend while giving Rogue/bard bonuses to make them stand out. they'll just end up upping the UMD check on all things so it'll be the same as if you get .5/skill point spent as fighter =_=

Why be so pessimistic? Doomsayer.... This is what I'm trying to get changed... If I'm a fighter and I want to use magical devices, I want to %^$%$#% train to use them, not the half-a#$ed cross-class **** we get now... This is what I'm saying is currently broken with the skill system...

[Drfirewater79]

I like a lot of the decisions and for any other mmo it would work

but

DDO still has the 3.5 name attached to it

one thing i think they could do which wouldn't be far from real rules is make better items that enhanced skills like umd instead of it being best you can get is gloves from titan i think they should change it to at level bonus like Disable Device.

Umd 15 gloves and boots should beable to be found that way at lvl 20 even a fighter could use a cure mod wand

another would be heal and repair skill need fixing

if heal and repair allowed you to get extra points on your heals and heals against warforged it would make cleric/FVS/bard competition greater ... best cleric builds might be wis/int builds with uber heal skill and hitting crazy crit heals would be fun .. and might make people who dont enjoy playing healers try it out again.

[Jay203]

lWhy be so pessimistic? Doomsayer.... This is what I'm trying to get changed... If I'm a fighter and I want to use magical devices, I want to %^$%$#% train to use them, not the half-a#$ed cross-class **** we get now... This is what I'm saying is currently broken with the skill system...

then go rogue or bard! we're lucky we can even invest ANY point into UMD with lvls of rogue or bard at the moment!
the current system isn't broken for UMD, it's broken for tumble, heal, repair, and listen >=(

[norman_quickfinger]

Ok Kromize since you didn't answer my question in my last post I'll guess you're not there for computers. So I'll explain it a different way. In PnP your idea could acually happen. They just put out a new book. But in an on-line mmo the cost is way more. If they remove the cross class skill penalty the Devs would almost have to redo the entire game. They would have to raise all the dc and umd checks on every single thing in the game. And they won't do that for 2 reasons: 1) it won't make a difference on you making it check.Because instead of a umd of 40 on a heal scoll they could raise that to a 60 umd. And 2) it would cost alot of money to reproggram all that.

Also most people that play fighters or barbarians don't usally put anything in charisma unless they are playing to multi-class. They usally put it in str,con and sometimes dex(mainly for a barb to help the ac during rage).But as I said in PnP yes your idea could be implemented for alot less cost. But not here it would just cost to much. And if you don't belive me ask a dev. You know the ones that make those kind of dessions.

[Nott]

Really? I'm saying that training for something, will inevitably boost some skills, but, that doesn't mean that you can't customize some of the other training you do... When I'm training as a fighter, or a sorcerer, there isn't only one way I can train as that. If I'm a fighter who wants to use wands to, then I would train my UMD...whats wrong with that?

Nothing stops you from training UMD... nothing at all. However, your overall fighter training gives you more aptitude for other skills. Equally, Bard (for example) receives overall class training that improves their aptitude for UMD. You can each learn the other's skills while maintaining your current classes, but you cannot learn them as effectively. You suggested replacing the current system with a "bonus" for the class that has the proper aptitude? Dude... that's exactly what has been done. Bard and Rogue get a bonus of double the benefit of UMD training versus other classes training in the same skill. You're a CS student? Do you think a History major is going to get the same benefit from your Algorithms class as you? Sure, they'll get -some- benefit, but not nearly as much. On the other hand, if they change majors (read: train in a different class, for at least a level), they'll absorb some of that benefit. Not as much, until they've got as many years (read: levels) in the program, but their general course of studies will improve their ability to learn the new material.

Haha. You must not have understood much of what I posted... In fact, I'm not entirely sure on how you thought this was a reply to me...was it? And since when do skills determin what class you are?

Skills don't determine what class you are. Your class, however, does determine the skills you are equipped to learn efficiently. If you want to learn skills that another class is more capable of, be thankful that you can! However, you're going to do it at a lower degree of efficiency. In this game, that means you can only learn half as efficiently. You don't have to like the way it is (and clearly you don't)... and there are other games that don't even have the concept of a class, just skills. D&D and DDO, however, do contain a class, and that class conveys you various benefits above and beyond your absolute skill selection. An example is the base attack bonus and extra feats a fighter gets, versus a bard and rogue. While not technically part of the set of skills, these improvements to a fighter's character are significant, and justify having a more difficult time learning other class's skills. You do have an option to cross-class, if you're looking to straddle the skill set.

[Kromize]

Your class, however, does determine the skills you are equipped to learn efficiently.

Wrong. Your being determines what skills you are equipped to learn. Some people just are NOT good at doing certain things, and vice versa... your class is just a path you choose to train in, and nothing more. It should have no effect on how easily you can learn certain skills. It should, however, give a standard bonus because of the skills you generally use as a part of training in that class...

[Enochroot]

Wrong. Your being determines what skills you are equipped to learn. Some people just are NOT good at doing certain things, and vice versa... your class is just a path you choose to train in, and nothing more. It should have no effect on how easily you can learn certain skills. It should, however, give a standard bonus because of the skills you generally use as a part of training in that class...

And you don't think what kind of person you are influences what path you take in life?

Have you ever met:

- a bunch of sales people
- a bunch of developers
- a bunch of marketing people

Do you think those people are similar in certain ways because of their JOB training? No. You can't detach the two. Your job can EASILY be correlated with how easily you learn certain skills.

[Kromize]

And you don't think what kind of person you are influences what path you take in life?

Have you ever met:

- a bunch of sales people
- a bunch of developers
- a bunch of marketing people

Do you think those people are similar in certain ways because of their JOB training? No. You can't detach the two. Your job can EASILY be correlated with how easily you learn certain skills.

Actually, they aren't all alike. You just assume they are because they have the tag "sales person", "developer", and are biased, and this is how prejudice develops... wait...wrong topic..

Anyways, just because I ca nbe good at one thing, doesn't mean I will choose to train in that one thing. What if I could be a great sorcerer, but want to be a fighter instead? Can I train UMD now plz?

since you didn't answer my question in my last post

hint: "Nebraska Wesleyan University" That is the name of the college. Now, get that through your thick skull and see if you can answer your question, via information that has always been there. (; Are have you been hit by a truly terrible feeble mind?

[norman_quickfinger]

Ok with your last post it's apparent that you're not even listening to any of us. And trying to explain it to you is a complete waste of time. BTW with the college that you go to what's your major GENDER STUDIES or PRE-NURSING. Yes I did look at the website. Build you toon how ever you want. And if you're on the server that I play on I won't group with a Sorc trying to be a fighter. And Clerics won't heal or ress you after a while. They might not even waste the time to take you to a shrine. So I hope you SKILLS help you swing that sword better and hit more and give you more hps to survive all the damage you'll take. Good Luck to you and enjoy playing by yourself.

[Kromize]

Ok with your last post it's apparent that you're not even listening to any of us. And trying to explain it to you is a complete waste of time. BTW with the college that you go to what's your major GENDER STUDIES or PRE-NURSING. Yes I did look at the website. Build you toon how ever you want. And if you're on the server that I play on I won't group with a Sorc trying to be a fighter. And Clerics won't heal or ress you after a while. They might not even waste the time to take you to a shrine. So I hope you SKILLS help you swing that sword better and hit more and give you more hps to survive all the damage you'll take. Good Luck to you and enjoy playing by yourself.

[norman_quickfinger]

And they seem to be allowing CHILDREN in to colleges nowa days

[Angelus_dead]

If I were a fighter, and wanted to learn how to use magical devices, I would go to somebody who knows what theyre doing and learn from them, just like a rogue would...

There are people who know that stuff. They're labeled as Rogue Trainers and Bard Trainers. They can help you get 1:1 UMD skillpoints.

Also, add lots of extra damage for attacks while your sneaking. Sneak attacks are cool, but, when your sneak attacking a mob just because he isn't targeting you, is that really a sneak attack?

It would be useful for the game to give a bigger bonus to Sneak Attacks that are true "Surprise" attacks instead of just "Flank" attacks. That would create an actual motivation for Rogues (even without the Assassin II specialty) to sneak up and attack mobs, rather than waiting for other damage-dealers to charge in first and give them flanking hits. If it were up to me, when a mob suffers a true "surprise" attack (when he didn't even know he was under attack), he'd suffer a debuff allowing you to get more sneak attacks on him for the next few seconds. (The duration would depend on how far your Hide/MS exceeded his Spot/Listen)

The D&D rulebook justification for that is that D&D encounters usually end in about 5 rounds, meaning that a single surprise attack can easily cover 20% of the combat. DDO uses inflated hitpoints so combats go for more rounds, so the value of surprise attacks could be raised in compensation.

Heal and Repair. Let us use healers kits and repair kits on people that aren't incapped. If I'm at 50 hp, and I have a high heal skill ,can I plz use that kit to heal myself a bit?

The obvious improvement needed by both Heal and Repair is to allow a character to play a 10 second animation of sitting down and consuming a kit, during which a significant number of hitpoints are recovered.

Swim...eh...this could really be improved if u added underwater fighting into the game..

An easier change would be to allow you to run at full speed while standing in water.

[Drfirewater79]

An easier change would be to allow you to run at full speed while standing in water.

BOOTS OF BALANCE - +10 balance check .. should the wearers balance be above 20 they are so well balanced that they can walk on top of water gaining no penalties to speed and requiring no swim check for crossing any body of water.

They exist in the core books I believe 3.5 DMG and no its not a quote from the book cause i am at work but walking on water is a balance check not a swim check ... swim skill only deals with the speed in which you swim and the duration you can hold your breath.

However i think it would be cool if they added things like that to the game I have alot of characters with more then 20 balance that would love to walk on water ... even if i had to wear a specific item to do it.

[Enochroot]

Actually, they aren't all alike. You just assume they are because they have the tag "sales person", "developer", and are biased, and this is how prejudice develops... wait...wrong topic..

Anyways, just because I ca nbe good at one thing, doesn't mean I will choose to train in that one thing. What if I could be a great sorcerer, but want to be a fighter instead? Can I train UMD now plz?


hint: "Nebraska Wesleyan University" That is the name of the college. Now, get that through your thick skull and see if you can answer your question, via information that has always been there. (; Are have you been hit by a truly terrible feeble mind?

Get back to me once you've left college and found the real world.

These people are much more alike than your "liberal" "college-minded" "anyone can be anything" drivel. And my sample size here is a cross-section of global IT business, it's not just say, American culture.

Yes, there's a few odd people that can posses multiple skills to cross fields, but 99% of the people in any of the above professions have NATURAL abilities that enhance those jobs.

For example (in ddo terms) -

Sales people - no cross-class penalty to diplomacy
Developers - no cross-class penalty to (i'll go with disable device here)
Marketing - no cross-class penalty in ... bluff

Can these people posses natural affinity for other skills? Maybe, but the odds aren't high. (Percentage of sales population with affinity to development? I'm going with 3% (probably high) - Developer's with affinity for sales skills? Going with ... 5%)

So in game terms, it's simply natural to have different classes have natural affinity towards different things.

[Kromize]

Get back to me once you've left college and found the real world.

These people are much more alike than your "liberal" "college-minded" "anyone can be anything" drivel. And my sample size here is a cross-section of global IT business, it's not just say, American culture.

Yes, there's a few odd people that can posses multiple skills to cross fields, but 99% of the people in any of the above professions have NATURAL abilities that enhance those jobs.

For example (in ddo terms) -

Sales people - no cross-class penalty to diplomacy
Developers - no cross-class penalty to (i'll go with disable device here)
Marketing - no cross-class penalty in ... bluff

Can these people posses natural affinity for other skills? Maybe, but the odds aren't high. (Percentage of sales population with affinity to development? I'm going with 3% (probably high) - Developer's with affinity for sales skills? Going with ... 5%)

So in game terms, it's simply natural to have different classes have natural affinity towards different things.

And once again, one fails to read, and, comprehend.

I pity thee.

[norman_quickfinger]

Ok everyone needs to remember that Kromize is a college student and knows how everything works way better than we ever will. So while he's in there learning how to be a nuclear scienctist and a neuro-surgeon at the same time he still graces us with his knowledge with how a mmo game is suppose to run.


Now it's time to wake up Kromize and get over yourself. You will never understand what we are saying because you are narrow minded. When you get out of college and in to the real world you will understand. And if you don't you will never hold a job and will either end up homeless in the streets or in mom and dads basement.

[Kromize]

Ok everyone needs to remember that Kromize is a college student and knows how everything works way better than we ever will. So while he's in there learning how to be a nuclear scienctist and a neuro-surgeon at the same time he still graces us with his knowledge with how a mmo game is suppose to run.


Now it's time to wake up Kromize and get over yourself. You will never understand what we are saying because you are narrow minded. When you get out of college and in to the real world you will understand. And if you don't you will never hold a job and will either end up homeless in the streets or in mom and dads basement.

Is there a reason for this? Or are you specifically trying to get this thread closed now?

Please refrain from posting such heated and trollish posts in my thread.

[norman_quickfinger]

Is there a reason for this? Or are you specifically trying to get this thread closed now?

Please refrain from posting such heated and trollish posts in my thread.

That wasn't trollish. That is reality. We understand that you want them to drop the cross slass skill penalty. We have explained why it won't happen. But you leave your cute pics and condensening remarks to everyones post. And btw no one single post agreed with you on dropping cross class skills. You are not listening to anyone. You have your mind made up that you're right and everyone one else is wrong. So the only way you will ever see what we are saying is to see for yourself.

[Kromize]

something smells like...flaming troll...who doesn't understand what it is to have an opinion(even if it is disliked by those who read it)...

Know what else was thought to be really stupid, and then later on, made people famous for it? the sun is the center of our solar system, not the earth. The earth is round as well, etc etc... :P

[Vordax]

Also, put a good delay on healing pots, because, however you look at it, theres no way a person can: a) drink that fast, and b) fit that much liquid in their body(50 pots down in 1 quest...sheesh).

A potion is only 1 ounce of liquid. So 50oz is about the same size as a super-big-gulp from 7-11. I think that could be drank in 1 quest.

Vordax