Make skills more useful...

[Kromize]

Please?

And take out the cross-class skill thing. If I wan to put a point into a skill, I better get a full point in that skill. Why should only a few classes get to use magical devices? If I were a fighter, and wanted to learn how to use magical devices, I would go to somebody who knows what theyre doing and learn from them, just like a rogue would...

Make sneaking more useful...First, turn it into a single skill(sneak, not hide + move silently, just sneak), then, make it so that mobs lose target of you when you go out of their line of sight... Also, add lots of extra damage for attacks while your sneaking. Sneak attacks are cool, but, when your sneak attacking a mob just because he isn't targeting you, is that really a sneak attack? Let us assassinate mobs... Add damage on top of "sneak attack damage" if your actually sneaking, maybe, auto-crit? That would make me happy.
Then you can also add hiding in plain sight as a feat, that I'm sure a ton of people wpuld love to take.

Jumping. Add more places where jump is requred, and quit taking away cool places to jump too...Remove all invisible barriers from stormreach, remove instancing from in-town, let us jump around from the harbor all the way to the back of house k(and on top of their puny bank?). woot?

Tumbling...there needs to be an easier way to do it...maybe...if you double-tap a key you can tumble? That would be a really effective way to dodge spells... Also make it add to the reflex save while being used(if it doesnt already...it should...) If it's used at the right time, you should be able to dodge almost anything...

Heal and Repair. Let us use healers kits and repair kits on people that aren't incapped. If I'm at 50 hp, and I have a high heal skill ,can I plz use that kit to heal myself a bit? (:

Swim...eh...this could really be improved if u added underwater fighting into the game...(:

UMD...could use a change, but what I'm thinking, it would take a game change for that one...I'll mention later...

Also, some skills have multiple stats that oculd, and should influence them... Like intimidate, it could get a boost from cha, str, int, and wis...


Also, you could add another section for some skills, like UMD. A "Trainable skills" section or something like that. Where, in your free time, you can go buy and read a book for a certain magical device, do a mini-game or something, and when you beat it, you can now use that certain magical device? Like, you want to learn how to use runes... So, you buy a tome of understanding(runes style!), read it, play throug ha mini game or something, and then you can use runes... There would be, of course, different levels... This could be a potential 'Content Factory™' here...lol...

I could post more, but I feel I've said enough for now...

[VKhaun]

And take out the cross-class skill thing. If I wan to put a point into a skill, I better get a full point in that skill. Why should only a few classes get to use magical devices? If I were a fighter, and wanted to learn how to use magical devices, I would go to somebody who knows what theyre doing and learn from them, just like a rogue would...

That's why it takes... rogue training! :O

Also, add lots of extra damage for attacks while your sneaking. Sneak attacks are cool, but, when your sneak attacking a mob just because he isn't targeting you, is that really a sneak attack? Let us assassinate mobs... Add damage on top of "sneak attack damage" if your actually sneaking, maybe, auto-crit? That would make me happy.

Assassinate is in the game already.
Sneak attack damage goes up with level.

Jumping. Add more places where jump is requred, and quit taking away cool places to jump too...Remove all invisible barriers from stormreach, remove instancing from in-town, let us jump around from the harbor all the way to the back of house k(and on top of their puny bank?). woot?

/signed? I love hopping around town, too.

Tumbling...there needs to be an easier way to do it...maybe...if you double-tap a key you can tumble? That would be a really effective way to dodge spells... Also make it add to the reflex save while being used(if it doesnt already...it should...) If it's used at the right time, you should be able to dodge almost anything...

Requiring block builds in a delay and creates strategy. I can see how you'd prefer more twitch, I tend to agree, but it's not a 'bad' game mechanic.

Heal and Repair. Let us use healers kits and repair kits on people that aren't incapped. If I'm at 50 hp, and I have a high heal skill ,can I plz use that kit to heal myself a bit? (:

Why skill based over chugging a pot or whipping a wand?

Swim...eh...this could really be improved if u added underwater fighting into the game...(:

Please God, no. LOL
Swim is more a place holder to show armor effect IMHO. It would be neat to see it have a use, but about 99% of the game would have to reroll if it was good. :P

Also, some skills have multiple stats that oculd, and should influence them... Like intimidate, it could get a boost from cha, str, int, and wis...

I could see str/con for intimidate in concept, but it doesn't really work because of all the stat increases at the end of the game. Any skill would be nearly no-fail at that point. Needs to stay one stat or it'd wreck balance.

[Hafeal]

Responses in blue:

Please?

And take out the cross-class skill thing. If I wan to put a point into a skill, I better get a full point in that skill. Why should only a few classes get to use magical devices? If I were a fighter, and wanted to learn how to use magical devices, I would go to somebody who knows what theyre doing and learn from them, just like a rogue would...

The skill is available to a fighter - the 1/2 point indicates the extra work you need to put into it to learn it v. those who naturally so inclined. This is why each class has its own skill set for which there i no penalty.

Make sneaking more useful...First, turn it into a single skill(sneak, not hide + move silently, just sneak), then, make it so that mobs lose target of you when you go out of their line of sight...

There is a difference between hiding and moving silently. Mobs DO sometimes lose target when you move out of their line of sight - that does NOT mean they lose aggro too.

Also, add lots of extra damage for attacks while your sneaking. Sneak attacks are cool, but, when your sneak attacking a mob just because he isn't targeting you, is that really a sneak attack? Let us assassinate mobs... Add damage on top of "sneak attack damage" if your actually sneaking, maybe, auto-crit? That would make me happy.

If you want this, make a rogue and take the Way of the Assassin line.


Then you can also add hiding in plain sight as a feat, that I'm sure a ton of people wpuld love to take.

Jumping. Add more places where jump is requred, and quit taking away cool places to jump too...Remove all invisible barriers from stormreach, remove instancing from in-town, let us jump around from the harbor all the way to the back of house k(and on top of their puny bank?). woot?

You do know there is nothing beyond the boundaries, right? It's not like there is a whole world out there. The devs have also limited jump in circumstances to prevent abuse and exploits.

Tumbling...there needs to be an easier way to do it...maybe...if you double-tap a key you can tumble? That would be a really effective way to dodge spells... Also make it add to the reflex save while being used(if it doesnt already...it should...) If it's used at the right time, you should be able to dodge almost anything...

You can change your tumble key in your settings if you would like to find a more efficient way to use it.


Heal and Repair. Let us use healers kits and repair kits on people that aren't incapped. If I'm at 50 hp, and I have a high heal skill ,can I plz use that kit to heal myself a bit? (:

These are not meant to be "heal spells". And I can count on one hand how many times I use them after the harbor. Even within the Harbor now that I think about it.

Swim...eh...this could really be improved if u added underwater fighting into the game...(:

Maybe some day ... admittedly swim is really only useful in 2-3 quests at the moment.


UMD...could use a change, but what I'm thinking, it would take a game change for that one...I'll mention later...

Also, some skills have multiple stats that oculd, and should influence them... Like intimidate, it could get a boost from cha, str, int, and wis...

Asking for some tough programming changes. Perhaps when they institute a skill respec.

Also, you could add another section for some skills, like UMD. A "Trainable skills" section or something like that. Where, in your free time, you can go buy and read a book for a certain magical device, do a mini-game or something, and when you beat it, you can now use that certain magical device? Like, you want to learn how to use runes... So, you buy a tome of understanding(runes style!), read it, play throug ha mini game or something, and then you can use runes... There would be, of course, different levels... This could be a potential 'Content Factory™' here...lol...

Interesting. They have a lot of problems with skills in the programming end though, this would really mess it up - at least until they get a handle on doing skill respecs. I have a feeling they may need a total revamp of the skills one day just like they did with enhancements. But it is on the back-burner until EU comes out.


I could post more, but I feel I've said enough for now...

[shores11]

Please?

And take out the cross-class skill thing. If I wan to put a point into a skill, I better get a full point in that skill. Why should only a few classes get to use magical devices? If I were a fighter, and wanted to learn how to use magical devices, I would go to somebody who knows what theyre doing and learn from them, just like a rogue would...

Wow, I have seen completely silly suggestions in the past but this one takes the cake. If there were no limits to what each class could do then there would be no need to have different classes. Basically everyone would just choose a general character and and skills and feats and mostly everyone would be a very similar class.

This is not D&D, if that is what you want then feel free to try out a super uber MMO that has no history or ruleset and you can do what ever you want at any time to your character. Then watch the game go away in less than 6 months.

[Draccus]

And take out the cross-class skill thing. If I wan to put a point into a skill, I better get a full point in that skill. Why should only a few classes get to use magical devices? If I were a fighter, and wanted to learn how to use magical devices, I would go to somebody who knows what theyre doing and learn from them, just like a rogue would...

Good points. While they're at it, just take out that whole weapon proficiency thing. If my rogue wants to use a longsword, he'd learn to use one just like a fighter.

And get rid of this whole spell list thing. Why place an arbitrary limit on how many spells my cleric or wizard or sorc can cast, just let me pick and choose which ones I need.

Speaking of spells, why should only casters get to cast them? If my rogue wants to cast Firewall, Bladebarrier, and Heal, he'd just walk into the temple and get one of those priests to teach him the spell.

And why would different classes get different hit points per level? What's so magical about being a barbarian or fighter when it comes to how much damage you can take? Give us all d12 hit die.

Speaking of dice, why even have them? I mean, just let me do damage every time I swing, even if I roll lower than a monster's AC...oh, wait...nm, take that one back.

[Kromize]

[Insert rhetorical question-insult here] Please learn how to use your brain before posting.

Now, on to my point. There is no reason whatsoever that cross-class skills should be in. I can understand how a ertain class might be better with certain skills, so, why not give them bonuses to those skills as they level up to show it? As I said before, why can't a single being(any class whatsoever) just learn what they want to learn? There shouldn't be any penalty just because some guy decided that class shouldnt be learning that skill... If I want to learn how to jump, I would train for that, if I want to learn how to balance myself, I would train for that...

However, if I wanted to learn how to cast a firewall, I would train for that too, but, it would take a lot of training, and probably a few levels into a mage class, so I can learn to use magic, while continuing to learn to jum and balance...etc...

Why skill based over chugging a pot or whipping a wand?

Becuase, there is a physical limit on how much liquid(even if its magical) you can drink. And, because, it would make it a more useful skill, and you wouln't have to waste money to heal yourself, or others...
Hurt abd have time to rest, use your heal skill.
Hurt and surrounded by mobs, chug a pot or whip a wand.
Pretty simple I would think...

I could see str/con for intimidate in concept, but it doesn't really work because of all the stat increases at the end of the game. Any skill would be nearly no-fail at that point. Needs to stay one stat or it'd wreck balance.

Different stats influencing the skill would make for different ways to use the skill. Insulting them(int), showing them your strength to get them to fight you instead(str), provoking them(cha), different ways to use it, so, you would only use one stat for a booster. Maybe you xould have different intimidates on your hotbar, with different animations too. One would flex, another laugh, another taunt, etc... I see no reason that can't be done.

Assassinate is in the game already.
Sneak attack damage goes up with level.

like I said, sneak attack damage doesn't really act like you would expect sneak attack damage too, add REAL sneak attacks... Not just opportunity attacks as thee are seemingly made to be.
And I wasn't referring to assassinate, I was using it as a descriptor of what we could do? If i sneak up behind a mob, and attack him, I expect to at least get an auto crit or something, and be able to finish him very quickly, thus being an assassination.

That's why it takes... rogue training! :O

Why can't my fighter train his skills just like the rogue trained his skills?



Basically so far I see not so great replies really, so I won't reply much further.

except for this: I honestly believe DnD is flawed greatly as it was made, and DDO copied those flaws, which was a bad idea.

[anastasius]

[Insert rhetorical question-insult here] Please learn how to use your brain before posting.

Now, on to my point. There is no reason whatsoever that cross-class skills should be in. I can understand how a ertain class might be better with certain skills, so, why not give them bonuses to those skills as they level up to show it? As I said before, why can't a single being(any class whatsoever) just learn what they want to learn?

...

except for this: I honestly believe DnD is flawed greatly as it was made, and DDO copied those flaws, which was a bad idea.

Well then, seeing as how this is Dungeons and Dragons Online based on edition 3.5 what did you expect? Cross class skills are in there for a reason as others have pointed in what you call rhetorical question insults.

You want a reason why cross-class skills are in this game? Because cross-class skills are in the game it is based on.

If you are a chemist or accountant or whatever irl, you spend most of your time learning skills to help you do that job. The time you have available to learn other things is lessened. In effect you take a cross class skill penalty irl. In this game, I can learn skills that are in my profession (what ever profession that may be, Fighter, cleric, and so on); however, I have less time to learn skills that aren't in my profession, hence the cross class skill progression.

[Uska]

Was going to read but then I saw take out cross skill thing and realized insta fail this dnd some classes are better at some skill period.

as to giving bonuses to classes that are good at those skills why change things when the cross class thing has the same effect and is already in place

[Kromize]

Well then, seeing as how this is Dungeons and Dragons Online based on edition 3.5 what did you expect? Cross class skills are in there for a reason as others have pointed in what you call rhetorical question insults.

You want a reason why cross-class skills are in this game? Because cross-class skills are in the game it is based on.

If you are a chemist or accountant or whatever irl, you spend most of your time learning skills to help you do that job. The time you have available to learn other things is lessened. In effect you take a cross class skill penalty irl. In this game, I can learn skills that are in my profession (what ever profession that may be, Fighter, cleric, and so on); however, I have less time to learn skills that aren't in my profession, hence the cross class skill progression.

foolish... Based on this, as a fighter, I can find any one of the skills in the game very useful to do my 'job', so, why can't I learn them all equally? Same goes for being a sorc, cleric, barb... Except for disable, open lock, perform, concentration...which brings up another pint, why don't they have more class-based skills?
Why can't I train trip or stunning blow as a fighter? Why are these essentially based on how strong I am, or how magical my weapon is?(or slightly the dumb enhancements)

Was going to read but then I saw take out cross skill thing and realized insta fail this dnd some classes are better at some skill period.

...fail...

as to giving bonuses to classes that are good at those skills why change things when the cross class thing has the same effect and is already in place

Because, "some classes are better at some skill period.". In the current system, with no standard bonus, you can choose not to learn a skill, and then hey your not better at that skill than another class who didn't have it as a class skill and learned it via cross-class system. If, however, there were standard bonuses for classes that were generally good with those skills, it would help out alot, and make a lot more sense.

Say, a sorc that didn't put any points into concentration? That's just dumb. But, if the bonuses system was in, then the sorc would naturally be good at concentrating...which would make a lot more sense!

Get what I'm saying? Or is it all just too much above your knowledge level?
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[Uska]

foolish... Based on this, as a fighter, I can find any one of the skills in the game very useful to do my 'job', so, why can't I learn them all equally? Same goes for being a sorc, cleric, barb... Except for disable, open lock, perform, concentration...which brings up another pint, why don't they have more class-based skills?
Why can't I train trip or stunning blow as a fighter? Why are these essentially based on how strong I am, or how magical my weapon is?(or slightly the dumb enhancements)



...fail...


Because, "some classes are better at some skill period.". In the current system, with no standard bonus, you can choose not to learn a skill, and then hey your not better at that skill than another class who didn't have it as a class skill and learned it via cross-class system. If, however, there were standard bonuses for classes that were generally good with those skills, it would help out alot, and make a lot more sense.

Say, a sorc that didn't put any points into concentration? That's just dumb. But, if the bonuses system was in, then the sorc would naturally be good at concentrating...which would make a lot more sense!

Get what I'm saying? Or is it all just too much above your knowledge level?
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NO your knowledge level of 3.5 dnd fails you want game like you have stated come up with money and develop and stop trying to reinvent the wheel, the skill system works fine, although have a few more useful skills would be nice I am not sure what ones would need to be brought int. And you say the replies arent great because we state your idea is wrong which they are.

[Black_Flamingo]

You say that rather than the cross-class system, classes should have bonuses for skills they are naturally good at.

But is that not what the class-skills represent?

It offers the bonus of being, for all intents and purposes, twice as good (in sheer training, at least) as someone who never recieved these bonuses.

A class that is not naturally good at these skills, however, has less success, and cannot achieve the same level of aptitude as those to whom it comes more naturally, without specialized training (a few levels of the class in question).

[Uska]

You say that rather than the cross-class system, classes should have bonuses for skills they are naturally good at.

But is that not what the class-skills represent?

It offers the bonus of being, for all intents and purposes, twice as good (in sheer training, at least) as someone who never recieved these bonuses.

A class that is not naturally good at these skills, however, has less success, and cannot achieve the same level of aptitude as those to whom it comes more naturally, without specialized training (a few levels of the class in question).

I wouldnt bother he is to busy trying to reinvent the wheel.

[VKhaun]

He's balancing for a group of people playing thematicly, and trying to sell it to a forum of stat tweakers in a game of min maxers.

I find this enjoyable to watch unfold.

[Uska]

He's balancing for a group of people playing thematicly, and trying to sell it to a forum of stat tweakers in a game of min maxers.

I find this enjoyable to watch unfold.

No he is trying to ask for something neither needed or wanted

[VKhaun]

No he is trying to ask for something neither needed or wanted

And no one posting here is capable of granting or denying that request.
So back to my comment we go.

[Uska]

And no one posting here is capable of granting or denying that request.
So back to my comment we go.

As pointless as his

[Kromize]

A class that is not naturally good at these skills, however, has less success, and cannot achieve the same level of aptitude as those to whom it comes more naturally, without specialized training (a few levels of the class in question).

A class is just a path that the person chooses to take. Why should that make the person naturally good at certain skills? Why shouldn't the person himself be naturally good at certain skills, no matter what class he chooses?

When you train for something, you will always increase your skill level of skills that you use for that training.

A class is just a path, and shouldn't dictate whether the person is naturally good at the skills or not. It should only give a person more training with certain skills. And, if they were naturally good at skills, wouldn't it make more sense to get a standard bonus as you level anyways, showing that your naturally good and thus don't need to train it to make it better?

Uska, you enjoy trolling and flaming?

ps: I know 3.5 good enough to know that it has many flaws in it's design. Which is why I choose to not learn any more about it than I need to know.

[anastasius]

A class is just a path, and shouldn't dictate whether the person is naturally good at the skills or not. It should only give a person more training with certain skills. And, if they were naturally good at skills, wouldn't it make more sense to get a standard bonus as you level anyways, showing that your naturally good and thus don't need to train it to make it better?

Uska and Vkhaun, you enjoy trolling and flaming?

ps: I know 3.5 good enough to know that it has many flaws in it's design. Which is why I choose to not learn any more about it than I need to know.

Duh, that is why we have feats called skill focus. If you are naturally good at something then you obviously have a feat for it.

Kromize, the only troll in this thread is you. We have listened to what you have had to say and given you our reasons why it shouldn't be that way. Your response has been how great you think you are and the rest of us are wrong. Truly you are a legend in your own mind.

[VKhaun]

...and Vkhaun, you enjoy trolling and flaming?

Hell yeah. But I didn't flame or troll anyone here. o.O

[Kromize]

Duh, that is why we have feats called skill focus. If you are naturally good at something then you obviously have a feat for it.

Oh, so, to be naturally good at something you have to train extra hard and don't train on anything else...I get it now...

And vkhaun, I know, my bad...