Self-resurection for $0.90

[Kalari]

I guess I just dont like how this is what they came up with to save the game. Instead of maybe revamping the AH or allowing users to sumbit ideas viably. And I still dont know why they didnt gamble with a paid expansion instead save those who keep citing Asheron's call 2 so I guess thats why they are leary about doing such.

Either way people will need to use this store for EU to be a success and thats what has me nervous. VIP's arent in this equation really save the ones who have always utilized money methods to succeed. so in that light yeah it wont affect those of us who think thats cheezy.

But for free players they are gonna have to pony up some dough at some point or this whole relaunch will be a waste of time. Why do all this work delay a mod **** off long time players for something people arent gonna spend real money to use. And what else will they put in to entice people to use it? I wish I wasnt so jaded with the game that I didnt have time to think about stuff like this.

[Vormaerin]

First, this isn't just about DDO. DDO is the product they felt best suited this model, but Turbine thinks the monthly subscription model is dying. Their choices were 1) launch a new game using this hybrid model and see how it goes or 2) try to revitalize DDO with this model.

Secondly, they will spend money. Just not as much money as the same number of subscribers would be paying. If they don't cover infrastructure costs, then it'll be a problem. But otherwise, more people playing is more people playing and some money is better than no money. More importantly, what most people spend real money on in games seems to be cosmetic stuff.

I'm not saying that people won't buy stuff on the store. I'm saying the whole scenario of large numbers of people buying a constant supply of "I win" stuff just isn't very likely. The people most obsessed with getting to lvl 20 and having "stuff" are the ones who play oodles of hours and get that stuff anyway. THe kind of stuff those players would buy aren't going to be for sale, afaik.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Secondly, they will spend money.

Incomplete response. WE will spend money. That's what the e-store is all about. And the model states we will spend exponentially MORE then we did with a fixed rate. If its over aesthetics like hair and armor, great! That's cool. If you can buy gameplay altering consumables, thats where the buck should stop.

[Borror0]

I just don't see how its going to ruin the game. But I already don't care what other people are doing in other instances, so I guess that just follows.

If by "I already don't care what other people are doing in other instances", you mean "I don't care if other use exploits" then you raise an interesting comparison.

While I would not equal buying consumables from the eStore to exploits, the two share a common trait in that they both make the game easier than what Turbine intended. No matter if you cared that Turbine fixed exploits and punished exploiters, the fact is that they did. You'd have to ask yourself why they did and if the eStore accomplishes the same.

First, this isn't just about DDO. DDO is the product they felt best suited this model, but Turbine thinks the monthly subscription model is dying. Their choices were 1) launch a new game using this hybrid model and see how it goes or 2) try to revitalize DDO with this model.

That's true but no one is questioning the freemium model.

What we're questioning is the need to sell these items in the eStore in the first place.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Leslie, even though sometimes in the past we have not agreed on things we have always kept it civil, don't stop that chain. We can have a civil discourse on the subject.

Welcome back to the game Cow. You are correct. We have agreed on much and just remember 1 disagreement, on the use of battle clerics if you remember I don't normally apologize for my directness (you should know that!), but for you, you get a one time reprieve. Got mad respect for you and your guild.

Now to the meat & potatoes... many quests require a long walk to get back to where the party is. Walking back to any quest in Reavers Refuge? Running to any quest in the Vale thats not Sleeping Dust? Even further parts of Stormcleave is a hike. I mean there needs to be SOME price to dying.. (oops, did I say price? Fail.) If you dont even have to RUN BACK after you die, why would you even TRY to stay alive? Dying becomes much more acceptable, and that does not add anything beneficial to this game.

You have people who can afford to play bad vs. people who cant or do not choose to play bad or use easy buttons. Do you want Donald Trump dying in your party 10 times because... he can afford to?? Do you want to wait for Trump to get his wallet because he ran out of "points!?" Baaaah, this aint Vegas.

Then you have the raid vs quest concept. WHY did Turbine disallow the use of their "great new" self res cakes in raids??? Because it would BREAK THE RAID. DESTROY the challenge. I am using THEIR ARGUMENT on every quest in the game.

Totally unbalances the playerbase and makes the quests even EASIER.

Batter up Cow, sock it to me...

[Yargore]

Well, it's more questioning the situation as there necessarily is an incongruence with the underlying logic.

The following would be congruent:

• Quests should not yield useful rewards, and consumables should be sold at the eStore but not usable in raids as quests are not intended to be rewarding nor challenging
• Consumables should be sold at the eStore and usable in raids as both raids and quests are meant to be not challenging but rewarding
• Consumables should not be sold at all as both raids and quests should be challenging and rewarding

You don't seem to acknowledge the fact that the effect of a pot can easily be replicated by releasig and reentering. Then you also return with full Sp and HP, making that a much bigger "Iwin" button than raise cakes ever will be.
So if the impact raise cakes will have on the game, will ruin it, why isn't it ruined already?

It's a very simple question.

[Yargore]

If by "I already don't care what other people are doing in other instances", you mean "I don't care if other use exploits" then you raise an interesting comparison.

While I would not equal buying consumables from the eStore to exploits, the two share a common trait in that they both make the game easier than what Turbine intended. No matter if you cared that Turbine fixed exploits and punished exploiters, the fact is that they did. You'd have to ask yourself why they did and if the eStore accomplishes the same.

The difference in bannable exploits and the eStore is really, really huge. There is no comparison really.
So you are really out in the blue when you say that the eStore accomplishes the same.
It's like saying that crafting a mineral II is an exploit because it saves some time as you don't have to swap weapons as often. Oh, and haste pots are also an exploit, 40% running speed, ouch that's a time saver. Burn it!

[Vormaerin]

If by "I already don't care what other people are doing in other instances", you mean "I don't care if other use exploits" then you raise an interesting comparison.

While I would not equal buying consumables from the eStore to exploits, the two share a common trait in that they both make the game easier than what Turbine intended..

Considering I explicitly stated what I was comparing the store to, I think your current attempt to stick words in my mouth is particularly ridiculous even by your standards.

But I'll respond briefly anyway. The two share no traits in common whatsoever. Exploits are misusing the game mechanics or taking advantage of game flaws to trivialize content. Unless you are saying that carrying stacks of consumables into instances, recalling out and reentering, and holding instances open after a wipe are exploits then you are completely off base. If those are exploits and Turbine closes them, then I'll agree that selling potions, rez cakes, etc are game breaking.

That's true but no one is questioning the freemium model.

I was answering a question by Kalari. I couldn't care less what you think you are talking about.

[Vormaerin]

Incomplete response. WE will spend money.

You might spend money. I'm not going to be spending a dime over my subscription. Anything I buy from the store would be from my 'earned in game' points. All those things you mention can be bought with plat or mild inconvenience already, not that I've found a reason to do so up until now.

I've only heard of three things so far that sounded interesting... the teleport thing, guest passes, and gold henchman contracts. I reckon I'll get enough points from my allowance and favor earning to cover that. If not, I'll do without (Like I do right now).

[In_Like_Flynn]

I think the store is an excellent way to extend the life of DDO. Those who choose to spend will be supporting a great game that might otherwise be swept under a wave of new offerings. Profit is good.

[Cowdenicus]

I wont argue that these items could be abuseable. That would be foolish. My concern is what would people want to buy. I know I have died doing something stupid in game countless times......

/death total anybody?

OK but seriously, is it all consumables that the population is having an issue with? or just some of the consumables?

What do you guys think of that bell thing I heard about that allows you to bypass a lock?

Is it just res cakes and mnemonics and shrines you all have an issue with?

[Borror0]

/death total anybody?

Not sure how you think the eStore items are supposed to help you with that.

[Cowdenicus]

Not sure how you think the eStore items are supposed to help you with that.

it was a joke.....

[Melthus]

I quit Everquest when they added purchasable cards that could be traded for in-game gear. It just seemed stupid to be able to buy your way through everything.

If DDO feels the same way after they implement this store, I will probably quit DDO as well.

[Mudcnd]

Well there's a lot of negativity because we were told mod 9 was going to be out Jan 1, 2009 - Kate did a video interview on that one. Then it was implied it was coming soon, so a lot of people kept their six months subs that were up Feb/March/April 2009. While the whole time Turbine was aware that there was no mod 9 coming for a long, long time. Now the story is, F2P has been in the works for a year, so a lot of us feel lied to, as we wouldn't have done the last six months if we knew mod 9 wasn't coming.

Some other potential reasons for negativity:
-Mod 9 is full of nerfs to many, many characters and builds
-Mod 9 is extremely caster unfriendly once again
-Favored Souls pretty much make the cleric class somewhat obsolete
-The lag in the past year has gotten worse and worse. Turbine was extremely slow to admit there was an issue, and it still is horrible today. When playing on the original Lammania (not beta), the lag wasn't there and it was amazing. A lot of people suspect Turbine downgraded whatever hardware DDO is running on. We definitely know they outsourced it at least once, then all the lag problems started.
-A significant amount of the player base has left DDO and may come back with mod 9, so many friends no longer play
-I'm probably forgetting lots, but there are some of the big ones.

Nice job summing it up!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

You might spend money. I'm not going to be spending a dime over my subscription. Anything I buy from the store would be from my 'earned in game' points. All those things you mention can be bought with plat or mild inconvenience already, not that I've found a reason to do so up until now.

I've only heard of three things so far that sounded interesting... the teleport thing, guest passes, and gold henchman contracts. I reckon I'll get enough points from my allowance and favor earning to cover that. If not, I'll do without (Like I do right now).

Nobody's upset with teleporting and guest passes. From all the "I want my easy button" chants in this thread, its obvious to me this "service" will be abused. Self-Res is an exploit plain and simple. A duck is a duck.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I quit Everquest when they added purchasable cards that could be traded for in-game gear. It just seemed stupid to be able to buy your way through everything.

If DDO feels the same way after they implement this store, I will probably quit DDO as well.

QFT. Many more feel this way.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

You might spend money.

I will spend no money. Most educated folks that understand English would have perceived that from the comment I made that you are pointing to.

Self-Ressing IS an exploit. It WILL alter the way this game is played by many. It leaves a terrible taste in the mouths of those who dont like easy buttons and cheating. It has to go. And I believe it will.

[Korskarn]

I don't really care if they add rez cakes or other things that might help people finishing quests.

I'm here to play a game, and like in all games, they are some people that like the hard way, some other that like the easy way.

If you think adding rez cakes is too much, what do you think of the countless of people that are self healing with Heal scrolls or Reconstruct scrolls ?

For me it's the same as using rez cakes : i don't know any DM that will allow their players to buy that. Turbine is our DM, so i do with and try to not think about all the things that i dislike on the way they implemented things into DDO (Monks, Paladins, Drows, crafting and so on...).

Regards

[Kalari]

Alright lets all agree that its not game breaking for everyone.

Lets also all agree that many of us will not use things like this and prefer to learn the game instead of not taking a characters death seriously.

Lets say even if we wanted that people will still learn the game without crutches know that when they die its cause they did something different and wont be the same as those who "buy plat."

K now that weve agreed on those points can we look at what this model for transactions can mean?

If we do not use the store and if the f2p people do not use it, it will be considered a failed model. I still dont understand the logic behind offering our game free with in store buy options but I dont call the shots. Obviously they want this to be a success. But what will it take for it to be? if the first things they offer (rez cakes and unlimited mana) isnt enough to get people to bite, where will they draw the line. Or will they scrap it?

Thats where my worries lay. Like many ive tried other mmos played for maybe a week tops and said "this is lame in ddo I can do this." Thats one of the main reasons I have yet to walk away from this game even though its gotten a little stale lately.

But when they start putting things in where ddo feels like ddo-lite, where trading amongst others is replaced by "just buy it in the store." Where clerics will say "I dont have to raise you im busy killing stuff just order from the in game store..." That kinda thought process annoys me. IM not saying its definitely gonna happen but I can see it happening and even more so with new people who come in without dnd backgrounds because "hey its a free game." I really hope im wrong about this and if I am will be the first to accept the "I told you so's."