Monk questions

[ariel7]

I'm wanting to make a human, pure monk. To that end, I've frustrated myself with an experiment here and there. Please, no suggestions of dex-based halfling monks or WF monks, those, I realize are terrific options but I'm working on a specific idea. It's a tribute build of sorts, so the two unchangeables here are Human and pure monk.

So, I think Earth stance really rocks, I like DR, extra damage...nice. I also like fire, for extra ki, but see a place for the others as well. I asked some pnp guys who seem to relate that its difficult to translate their monks into the ddo game.

What are my goals? Good dps (unarmed), not a tragic decrease if I use kamas for w/e or vorpals. I'd like saves and ac to be decent.

I have great confusion on monks, as there are so many examples of how not to build/run one and then you're in a party with a great monk and you're like....hmm, THAT looks fun!

1. Finishing moves...I rolled a human monk for experimentation. Getting up to 35 ki the finishing moves icon didn't change (maybe I missed it if it flashes for like one second only) How much ki do you need and are they really useful?
2. Would 16-15-14-8-15-8 be a decent stat distribution?
3. I saw 72 ac as being the target ac for a monk. How is this usually being achieved?
4. Any issue not having CE on a monk?
5. The key feats for a handwraps user seem to be the entire twf chain, and ideally a toughness in there. This leaves several open feats which in feats I've seen be sued for dragonmarkage, for improved criticals, for up to 4 toughness fears, and even for UMD boosting. What are the best feats to go for after the twf line?
6. Is anyone at all soloing on a monk? If so what makes this a reasonable option for you?
7. Concentration/balance usually are the universal skills I see being used in most builds (note: there are considerably fewer builds of monks than amny other classes) with UMD being up there every now and then. How effective are we finding cross class UMD at current cap?

Thanks, I know I ask a lot but I'm really, really just beginning on a monk and I've gotten some good advice from a poster on here, and before I run up his build I just want to get more comfortable in the hows and whats. I capped a cleric, realized I would have been happier if I'd done stat distribution a little different, and not wasted time on a couple of feats. I capped a pure sorc, and while he's quite powerful, I wish I'd allocated starting stats differently, taken a different line on skills and knew the spells better before...just experienced the same thing with an intim tank. I know part of this is just bound to always happen from learning as you go and nothing being able to replicate actual, in-game experiences, but as my time to play will be decreased as soon as I pass these certification exams, I'm tying to really limit my growing pains. Thank you so much for your time in reading this and consideration. I know how I feel about a question or two, but I'm looking for input to soldify my beleif in that choice. Thanks again, all.

[Comfortably]

So make it a pure human str based monk, but you'll do more dmg with windstance.

[Greydeath]

So, I think Earth stance really rocks, I like DR, extra damage...nice. I also like fire, for extra ki, but see a place for the others as well. I asked some pnp guys who seem to relate that its difficult to translate their monks into the ddo game.

1. Finishing moves...I rolled a human monk for experimentation. Getting up to 35 ki the finishing moves icon didn't change (maybe I missed it if it flashes for like one second only) How much ki do you need and are they really useful?
2. Would 16-15-14-8-15-8 be a decent stat distribution?
3. I saw 72 ac as being the target ac for a monk. How is this usually being achieved?
4. Any issue not having CE on a monk?
5. The key feats for a handwraps user seem to be the entire twf chain, and ideally a toughness in there. This leaves several open feats which in feats I've seen be sued for dragonmarkage, for improved criticals, for up to 4 toughness fears, and even for UMD boosting. What are the best feats to go for after the twf line?
6. Is anyone at all soloing on a monk? If so what makes this a reasonable option for you?
7. Concentration/balance usually are the universal skills I see being used in most builds (note: there are considerably fewer builds of monks than amny other classes) with UMD being up there every now and then. How effective are we finding cross class UMD at current cap?

The Earth stances are fine for DPS, but lackluster as an actual Stance to use...

1 - You need to prep them. Generally they are 3 of the same type of attack (Earth-Earth-Earth) or 2 of the same seperated by the Monk Path (Earth-Light-Earth). Their cost varies but is ~10ki so it sounds like you did not prep the Finisher properly.

2 - certainly acceptable, but will require some tomes/level ups to be useable

3 - Grinding AC gear :\ High WIS & DEX and CE

4 - No, but make sure to have Power Attack!

5 - Human Dragonmarks are so-so. Pwr Atk is necessary and Dodge (if AC is high enough to matter), Toughness, Weapon Focus, iCrit are all viable. Stunning Fist/Stunning Blow are also very nice for handwrap users (especially high STR/WIS Monks).

6 - Yes, definitely Monks are one of the best solo class. High AC/Saves and survivability with easy heals and decent trash mob abilities.

7 - Monks are significantly newer than the other classes - ergo, less builds. Conversely there are FAR more Monk builds than Favored Souls Concentration is key to max, after that personal preference. Even a Dwarf with 06CHA can reach a useable UMD at half-ranks, but Tumble (enough to unlock), Balance, Spot/Listen, Jump, etc are all good. Providing you have +2 INT tome, I would suggest:
Concentrate
Balance
Spot
UMD
Tumble then Jump (at lvl2+)

[ariel7]

So if a human str-based Monk will do more damage in wind stance...should I try for grandmaster in all 4? It just seems that its spread so thin...

How would you build a human monk to be most viable?

[Hasteclicky]

You really only need grandmaster in your main stance and what ever it takes to qualify for the strikes you want in the others. Unfortunately the dr from earth doesn't end up high enough to matter. Maybe that will change later on. I tried it on my capped halfling in pvp and I think with stoneskin I was getting dr 16, blocking. My sorc with a shield is at least 10 over that.

[Delacroix21]

So if a human str-based Monk will do more damage in wind stance...should I try for grandmaster in all 4? It just seems that its spread so thin...

How would you build a human monk to be most viable?

If you are trying to build a human strength-based monk who can get near 72ac, then you are going to have a hard time. WF and halflings are often suggested as they are much easier to get a high ac, and come with a slew of other benefits. Humans are interesting as they do have the potential of topping +100% healing, doubling the effect of healing ki (which would be awesome). Monks can be great soloers if built right, as they will rarely get hit. I can solo all 3 named in Mount Reysalon without any effort.


Human 20 monk
Stats
Str 14
Dex 15 (+5 level up points)
Con 14
Int 12 (+1or2 int tome to grab CE)
Wis 15 (+3 monk enhancements)
Cha 8

Even stats mean they can utilize +4 tomes for next mod.

Feats
1. TWF/Toughness/Stunning Fist (you wont use it till Mod 9 though)
2. Weapon Finese
3. Path of Light/Dodge
6. Combat Expertise/Power Attack
9. Improved TWF
12. Improved Critical Bludgeoning
15. Greater TWF

Skills (with +2 int tome at level 1)
Balance 23
Tumble 20 (Not taken at level 1)
Hide 23 (soon these skills will become more important then ever)
Move Silently 23 (take)
Jump 23 (high jump great for abundant stepping over enemies)
Concentration 23
Use Magical Device 11 (with some extra effort, can use 5th level shield wands)

By going Dex build (as you will ALWAYS be in windstance 4) you can end up with a 34 dexterity with a +3 or +4 dex tome, with a strength of 24. Going strength build leaves you with 30 strength (your still in wind stance not fire and +4 tome) and a dex of 26 (with +4 tome). So you lose 4ac, 2 to-hit, but gain 3 damage, 1 feat, your choice but I reccomend the Dex build.


AC Breakdown (+4 tomes in mind)
10 base
13 Dex (extra +2 dex on shroud kama)
5 Centered
9 Wisdom
1 Dodge
1 Alchemy
2 chaosguards or +8bracer
6 DT outfit
3 Dodge (tier 3 DT spot or chattering ring)
4 insight (shroud kama)
5 Combat Expertise
=

59 Beholder AC (add +4 if using icy rainments, but expect to be item slot starved for Mod 9)

Self Buffed AC
4 shield clicky
3 barkskin potion
1 haste potion
=

67ac

Raid Buffed AC
2 ranger barkskin
4 bardsong
5 pally aura
2 recitation
=

78ac if you have that many buffs (unlikely) switch to power attack.


Saves (in windstance 4, +5resist, +2head of good fortune, +1alchemy, +4tomes)
Fort 26
Reflex 33
Will 29

[twoton]

like the others said: str based monk with tier 3 windstance. my current capped monk is this. Most people on the forums dont agree with my builds but they work for me but this is what I did.

human pure monk
str: 18
dex: 16
con: 8
int: 8
wis: 14
cha: 8

tomes :
+1 str tome
+1 dex tome
+1 wis tome
+1 con tome

human ability enhancments:
str
con

all lvling points into str

feats:
1. dodge
1. toughness
1. twf
2. toughness
3. toughness
6. pa
6. toughness
9. itwf
12. ic bludg
15 gtwf

granted I will admit con is very low but thank god monks get the class feat toughness I took 4 toughness feats to make up lose in hp my lvl 16 monk with just improved false life sits at 350hp with minos helm. You could drop str to starting 16 and put those points in con and free up some feats. Its all in how you play. My monk works well for my playstyle. I find playing my monk it works best for me in a zerg party.

But if your lookin for a human str based pure monk that has been tested at end game and can hold his own as far as monks go I have tested him in end game and he works just fine

Just remember greater banes and +5 flaming burst and +5 holy and m/b handwraps are your friends :P

ac wise without chattering ring or icy ac on this build stands around 42 unbuffed.

your QP dc will take out most casters not really worth tryin on other things but casters are what you have to worry about anyways when needing a quick death.

anyways good luck I hope you figure something out and enjoy playin a monk as much as I do

[VKhaun]

If you look at most monk builds the stat differences are tiny. They need four stats. There's only so much you can do. If you're this new that you've not figured out finishing moves, I would say make a monk that's 15/15/15/8/15. Do UMD, balance, and concentration. Take all the starting stances, and for your three lv1 feats get precision, power attack, and resilience toggle skills. Play with the bonuses in different combination and figure out which to use when. See what works where and how often.

If you like it and want to keep going, spread your level ups to one point in each stat. Wisdom at lv4, because that's hard to find early on, then whatever you see fit as you go up and get the other three. With one in each stat, strength, dexterity, constitution, wisdom, then with +2 tomes used later you'll unlock all four of the final 18stat required grandmaster stances come mod9.

Difference from you and pure will be about seven stat points. (15+1 vs 18+5 level ups). Rounding up for them, you're talking +4 to-hit and +4 damage vs strength based monks, or +4 to-hit and +4ac vs the dex based. That's very significant on a monk, but not game breaking. It may be more fun for you to have all the stances.

Most likely you will just learn from it and re-roll at lv6. Still worth the experience.

[ariel7]

I really appreciate all the input. Monks are indeed a totally new experience for me. I'm appreciative of your assistance and will try to experiment to level 5-6 this weekend and then report back here my impressions. Thanks again

[ariel7]

I got some fantastic advice and just wanted to update what was the result of everything. I got the human up to level 7 and looked at the notes I had been taking after every few quests and found that this was NOT the build for me. I subsequently rolled another, leveled it to 5 and then liked it enough to start again, with refined ideas.

I am NOT:
Rolling a human (the toughest choice for me, since it was a tribute build)
going for grandmaster in all 4 stances
relying mostly on earth stance
doing my normal speed level process, where I go 4-6 levels on the same gear then switch out

I AM:
Rolling a halfing
Being dex/wisdom based, and remaining in air stance mostly
stopped in every other level to update nearly all my gear (I spent about 2 million gold already for this, not counting items like rings, cloaks, etc I had already)
very grateful to all who assisted me, in the forums, in pms, emails, phone calls and pms in-game with my endeavor.

I sincerely thank everyone for their input. I am hoping this thread ends up helping someone else. But even if not, its a great chance for me to thank you all again.

[Greydeath]

This

human pure monk
str: 18
con: 8

granted I will admit con is very low but thank god monks get the class feat toughness

and this

1. toughness
2. toughness
3. toughness
6. toughness

I took 4 toughness feats to make up lose in hp

are why we think this

Most people on the forums dont agree with my builds

[Greydeath]

I got some fantastic advice and just wanted to update what was the result of everything.

I sincerely thank everyone for their input. I am hoping this thread ends up helping someone else. But even if not, its a great chance for me to thank you all again.

No prob - glad we could be of help. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!

[Mobeius]

Coming from a Human Monk...

based the idea off my monk from PnP 3.5 in the fact that monks are one of the (if not THE) most M.A.D. classes (Multiple Attribute Dependency) out there. Next I based the fact off that the single best and biggest attribute for monks is Wisdom because it boosts will sves and your AC and the DC's for your attacks. Lastly, I went human for the extra feat and +1 skill point per level (20 free Skill points) and unless you are a wizard or fighter, ever class is feat starved. There was an old saying in my group about feats in 3E+ DnD. Feats > ALL I also based the thought sometimes your not going to be able to avoid damage from sheer AC alone, so I built my monk for damage avoidance/mitigation/and AC.

I would reccomend making a monk from a 32 point build, but a 28 point build is viable, but the monk has many stat needs, but if you have no interest in UMD, you can shave of charisma and UMD.

I am skill junky and a UMD junky, so I started both my Int and Cha at 12 and ate +2 tomes on all stats ex. A 25 UMD which allows me to use stonekin wands, 10th level wands like Expeditous Retreat and Shield. Boosting Int to 14 not only gives you 60 Skill Points (from starting at 8) but also allows you to pick up Combat Expertise. All of the wnad use allows you to do more things and/or save party/raid wipe. Sheild Wands rock, 5 to 10 minutes of shield and more importantly immunity from magic missles and force missle. Those and Searing light are my biggest killers.

I "beleive" my starting stats were. (or close to this). I cant recall exactly and I dont recall what I did on my leveling bonuses either. I think it +2 Wisdom and I think +1 Str or Dex. or it was +1 to Str dex and wis. Sorry its been awhile. The number in Parenthesis is the base numbers now.

STR: 14 (17)
DEX: 14 (17)
CON: 14 (16)
INT: 12 (12)
WIS: 15 (18)
CHA: 12 (14)

Starting from Level 1, the feats I would take are toughness, dodge, luck of heroes and use dragonshards to respec your feats as you level up and they become less useful. My feats I took are Dodge, the GTWF feat chain, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Path of Light.

With the new Korthos Island stuff you can probably twink yourself out good with stuff till level 4 to 6.

I use HW primarily, but in the begining just use a staff till about level 9. Havent seen or recall how a level 1 monk is with his fists, but I think your best bet is 1/4 staves till you are higher in level and oyour monk fists do more damage than base weapon damage. When I started it was all about Kama's and Staves, I have some but I love the look of HW for flavor as well. I am always trying to upgrade out of Kamas to HW. I have Vorpal Kamas and debuffing kamas that I keep around. I have Incorporeal set of Kamas for the undead, still trying to get some raid items Tharnes goggles and Bracers and the Titan Belt. However, the ethereal part of magic items (IE: Ethereal Bracers, Spectral Gloves, etc.) still dont work with Handwraps as of yet, if they ever will, who knows.

The great thing about HW and twinking is that whatever you use automatically is "dual weilded" with both effects, so you kind of have a buy 1 get 1 free mode. I like using my Maladroit HW of Weighted 3% mostly with stunning fists, especially with my bloodstone. 1st, if they can be Vorpal or Banished someone just took the kill, but you still win, too bad they dont have "assists" in game and not just kill counts. Also stunned mobs are autocritted and sneak damage energy drain items or stat damage items, so rogues and those with sneak damage benefit again, here again, your team wins but most people would hardly notice your impact on a mob and more than likely just play it off as just people doing good or no lag or anything other than a monks contributions other than DPS and surviving.

Between spamming stunning fists and weighted gloves, mobs get stunned quite a bit, red named mobs are immune to stun and quivering palm which works really well too.

On Red named mobs though and tough fight mobs thats were I spam Eagles Claw and Unbalancing Strike.

All fights I try to spam fists of light (mainly for healing curse) and stike of the enduring 3 for additional DPS which stacks on your regular attacks.

For Example. Your using Holy Burst HW and you spam your flaming fist and lets say you critical.

You do you regular damage 2D8 + bonus + holy damage + plus burst damage + 2D6 Fire +2d6 Fire Burst Damage.

Strike of the Enduring 3 is 8 points of untyped damage and if you critical is 2D6 acid damage.

My Animal Path is not the norm either, I took Way of the Clever Monkey, at rank 4 it gives you +8 bonues to all your Energy resitances that STACK. +4 bonus to Haggle and Trap Saves too. Most others take way of the Tortoise or Crane. Yes it stacks with DT or GS items. I can hit a 43 Electrical Resitance now, with time and effort I think I can achieve a 48 Resistance in Fire, Acid and Electrical and 43 in Sonic and Frost and that would be on all the time.

I took all 4 elemental stances at Master Level, not sure if I can hit all 4 with Grandmaster when it goes level 20 though, but I will try. I need +3 Str and Dex tomes for Fire and Air, need +4 Con tome for GM Earth and I am GTG for GM Water Stance.

I took racial toughness 1 and 2.

Took Monk Wisdom 1 and 2 and Human Adaptability Wisdom. Allows you to gain +3 wisdom for 8 AP instead of 12 AP's

Next, I took Monk and Human Recovery I, which boosts the amount of healing you recieve, and wholeness of body IS affected. Just going from Human Recovery II and Monk Recovery II to just Level I in each reduced my wholeness of Body from 25 per tick to 21 per tick. I can recover about 80% of my HP with the smaller one and just cap off with other healing if need be.

Also took. Lifting the Veil, Difficulty at the Begining, Restoring the Balance, The Receptive Earth and Finally Rise of the Phoenix. Restoring the bBalance iis great, espeically in VOD, you turn on fire stance and target the tank and just manually swing at Suul and if you see a curse icon, bam, no curse and it was free and saved someone a potion, or mana.

Finally, I took Fists of Light, Eagle's Claw and Unbalancing Strike. Fists of Light causes healing curse (and 2d6 damage to undead), which allows all people swinging to heal 1 to 2 HP per hit which is awesome healing.

I didnt start of this way, but thats my current configuration that I like that balances a great many things as well as contributes to the Party/Raid tremdously.

I perfer Humans, but WF I think are good due to the abilties they get, however as a monk some things like poison and disease, but I tink WF have some sort of neg energy immunity too I think. Halflings are good for AC builds, and I am sure the other races are good. This my choice and preference and not to say humans are the best class for monk but I do like the free feat and the extra +1 skill point per level.

Windstance is the best stance of the four in my humble opinion when comparing all of them. However, the other stances have their places and usefulness for various reasons.

Firestance, I use it for Ki generation in the begining of a fight, or help me add more to DR penetration or if I need to raise my strength to use a lever or punch through doors.

Earthstance: I use it for DR and DR blocking or to run through terrain and minimize damage. if you have 25% stride, dont let the earth slow movement thing bug you, LOL you will still outrun normal PC's.

Waterstance: if I am trying to land debuffs from fists, land stunning fist or quivering palm, I have this one on, if there is a need for high saves, I use this stance. with a +5 resistance item and water stance and Greater Heroism, my saves are Fort and Reflex both at +26 and Will save +30, not including luck bonuses or raid bonuses. Often times in water stance my saves are all at 30+

My AC is on the lower side right now, can self buff my AC to about 55, raid buffs around 60 to 64. Little more time and effort for items, I beleive I could achieve 60 self buffed, 67 to 70 raid buffed but. thats further and later in the road as I am still trying to get Insight Bonus to AC on my DT Robe and some other raid items.

Guess this is enough for now. Any questions?