Build Help: Dwarf Ranger/Fighter maybe paladin

[Yargore]

How much better is the dps on the human vs the dwarf

Quite alot, considering that the dwarf will have trouble maxing haste boost and extra boosts. Spending 12 APs on the DAs is very expensive.

Assuming that the dwarf somehow manages to free 13 APs to max haste boost and extra boost from non-dps enhancements the difference will be around 24 DPS. 319 fo the dwarf VS 343 for the human.
If the dwarf stays with rank II haste boost it will be down at 299 DPS.

Compare that to:
Pure dwarven TWF barb: 394,9 DPS(takes 4d3 selfdamage every swing)

And you'll see that it's actually pretty decent DPS for a non-monksplash fullplate character with very high AC.

[Yargore]

This one is THE highest dps of anything mentioned here ... 10% sacred bonus to attack speed (Zeal spell) PLUS the 10% tempest attack speed bonus ... you can't go wrong here.

It might be the highest mentioned here, but it's still lower than The Monster and pure fighters.
Don't underestimate haste boosts.

[Leyoni]

@ Yargore,

Can the dwarf build be made w/o intimidate? Or do you consider intimidate to be a requirement for fighters (like haste for an arcane or UMD for a rogue)?

I ask because I've been looking at building a dwarf fighter using the Kensai enhancements and fighter capstone. But, I'm not really certain about intimidate and hadn't planned on putting any points into CHA.

[Demoyn]

It might be the highest mentioned here, but it's still lower than The Monster and pure fighters.
Don't underestimate haste boosts.

There's also about 20 builds that aren't pure fighters ahead of the monster.

[Yargore]

@ Yargore,

Can the dwarf build be made w/o intimidate? Or do you consider intimidate to be a requirement for fighters (like haste for an arcane or UMD for a rogue)?

I ask because I've been looking at building a dwarf fighter using the Kensai enhancements and fighter capstone. But, I'm not really certain about intimidate and hadn't planned on putting any points into CHA.

If you go the DPS route and take kensai I wouldn't recommend intimidate.
It has limited usefulness, even more so if you don't have high AC. So you will be better off without it for your build.

[Yargore]

There's also about 20 builds that aren't pure fighters ahead of the monster.

Puer fighters and The Monster have more or less equal DPS. Depending on fortification, lenghts of fights and FEs it's hard to say who get the highest DPS.
(In my calcs they end up at the exakt same DPS, save some decimals)


I guess you are talking about 20 variations of tempest rogues and 19/1 rogues, and ofcourse 12 fighter / 6 ranger / 2 rogue/barb.

[Demoyn]

I guess you are talking about 20 variations of tempest rogues and 19/1 rogues, and ofcourse 12 fighter / 6 ranger / 2 rogue/barb.

No, I'm talking about the 20 or so builds that beat the hell out of the monster's DPS in Gfunks thread (the thread he made because the builder of the monster was talking a lot of smack that he couldn't back up). Builds like pure barbarians, pure paladins, tempest barbarians, pure rogues, tempest rogues, rogue monks, rogue tempest monks, etc, etc, etc.

[Yargore]

No, I'm talking about the 20 or so builds that beat the hell out of the monster's DPS in Gfunks thread (the thread he made because the builder of the monster was talking a lot of smack that he couldn't back up).

You should go check it again.
Oh, btw I'm the builder of The Monster.
Aaxeyu was a friends US account, but he didn't wanna keep paying the sub


EDIT: Checked the thread, and guess what. The only builds there that out-dps The Monster is rogues vs 0% fort mobs.
And it's 7 builds, not "20 or so", got problems with number? Skipped to many classes at school?

[Demoyn]

You should go check it again.
Oh, btw I'm the builder of The Monster.
Aaxeyu was a friends US account, but he didn't wanna keep paying the sub


EDIT: Checked the thread, and guess what. The only builds there that out-dps The Monster is rogues vs 0% fort mobs.

Ok.... I look at the second post where DPS is calculated as opposed to the first where it's just damage numbers. The second post doesn't have the monster with haste boost listed.

Even so there's 9 builds with higher DPS than the monster, and 2 of them don't have a single level of rogue. Not to mention that some of us like to actually sustain DPS instead of shoot our load after 1 minute and 20 seconds and spend the rest of the time sucking. Then again, some people just want the notch on the bedpost and don't care about their group a minute and 21 seconds later.

[Yargore]

Builds like pure barbarians, pure paladins, tempest barbarians, pure rogues, tempest rogues, rogue monks, rogue tempest monks, etc, etc, etc.

Haha, now you're funny.
Pure barbarians and tempest barbarians have far from the monsters DPS. You should actually go look at the thread you are talking about.
Barb : ~1200, Monster ~1500.
Where I come from 1500 is higher than 1200...

[Yargore]

Ok.... I look at the second post where DPS is calculated as opposed to the first where it's just damage numbers. The second post doesn't have the monster with haste boost listed.

Even so there's 9 builds with higher DPS than the monster, and 2 of them don't have a single level of rogue. Not to mention that some of us like to actually sustain DPS instead of shoot our load after 1 minute and 20 seconds and spend the rest of the time sucking. Then again, some people just want the notch on the bedpost and don't care about their group a minute and 21 seconds later.

Sigh, take a better look.
The only builds that deal higher DPS according to that list are rogues. And every single one of them also includes haste boost.

8 haste boosts: 2 minutes and 40 seconds worth of boost. My own calcs are for an average DPS over 5 minutes, hence pure fighters perform better in that calc compared to Gfunks.
I don't know what slow RP groups you play with that have problems clearing between shrines in that time.

Oh btw. Even without hasteboosts The Monster outdpses rangers and dwarven barbs.
You have clearly not a clue of what you are talking about.

[Leyoni]

If you go the DPS route and take kensai I wouldn't recommend intimidate.
It has limited usefulness, even more so if you don't have high AC. So you will be better off without it for your build.

Thanks. What happens to the dwarf build if you go paladin instead of fighter. It looks to me that the paladin PrE has about the same AC effect as the fighter defender (because of the existing paladin AC boosts)?

I calculate Kensai loses 7 AC from the defender build. Is that right?

Edit: And one more question, how long does the defender AC boost last? Is it 20 seconds like the AC boost or is it until turned off? Thanks,

[Yargore]

Thanks. What happens to the dwarf build if you go paladin instead of fighter. It looks to me that the paladin PrE has about the same AC effect as the fighter defender (because of the existing paladin AC boosts)?

I calculate Kensai loses 7 AC from the defender build. Is that right?

Edit: And one more question, how long does the defender AC boost last? Is it 20 seconds like the AC boost or is it until turned off? Thanks,

If you're gonna go paladin, I strongly recommend human.
And a pure paladin will have problems with afforing the TWF feats (they are a must-have). So splash 2 fighter levels and you'll manage.

A paladin loses 4 AC compared to the fighter thou, but gain alot of self healing and a very good ability (glorous stand) to make up for it. And with your own 6 Ac aura, you will be less dependant on the party setup, and be very helpful to the party, 6 ac is ALOT for any build that have some foucs in AC.

I dunno if the paladins DPS would be higher tho. I doubt it.


Yes, kensai loses 7 AC. And gains about 100 DPS. Making an AC kensai would definatly work, but you would be very dependant on CE to keep your AC high, thus losing some DPS from PA. A kensai without PA still out-dpses a defender with PA thou.

Defensive stance lasts until you turn it off.

[Leyoni]

Thanks, very useful information.

I had a dwarf follower to my human ranger many, many years ago when AD&D first came out. He later turned into a PC after my ranger had a run in with a carrion crawler. (Long story made short, ranger had a ring of regeneration and was carrion food for many game years.)

This has been great info and I'm headed into game to roll him up (the dwarf that is). Thanks,

[Yargore]

Thanks, very useful information.

I had a dwarf follower to my human ranger many, many years ago when AD&D first came out. He later turned into a PC after my ranger had a run in with a carrion crawler. (Long story made short, ranger had a ring of regeneration and was carrion food for many game years.)

This has been great info and I'm headed into game to roll him up (the dwarf that is). Thanks,

I'm glad I could help, and I hope you enjoy the build

[noobkid15]

Hey guys thanks for all of the help. I think im gonna go with the dual fighter human kopesh build. now I am looking for a +2 int tome. I will buy or trade for it. I have alot of stuff, smiters, banashers, para weapons, disruptor, planar gird, Large scales, and lots of dragon scales, and some other named loot.

Thanks, David

[noobkid15]

oops double post