Build Request ! Drow TWF Paladin With DM4

[Vengenance]

You'll be hitting as hard as a fully raged barbarian, plus you'll have Zeal on, and Divine Sacrifice and Smite Evil clickables... not bad? I say, kickass!

PLUS Knight of the Chalice will get all those bonuses against evil outsiders...

When rangers became bad-ass, it took a while for the general populace to figure it out... Same with Paladins... TWF Paladins are an insane DPS class now... But you'll still probably get declined from groups for a few months into Mod 9... Then about a year from now, people will be calling for paladins to be nerfed....

I have a TWF DPS Dwarven Ranger, a TWF DPS WF Barbarian, and just completed my TWF DPS palidan (I used to have a S&B Palidan but deleted him a long time ago).

Best over-all sustained DPS goes to the Barb, but he can't self-heal or self-buff, no UMD and is good for pretty much just DPS.

The Ranger and Pally are pretty similar in DPS, average DPS probably favors the Ranger especially against favored enemies but his UMD is ****, he can barely self-heal, and is somewhat boring to play.

Now my DPS pally, which IMO has the best burst melee DPS in the game (Divine Sacrifice & Exhaulted Smites) is a blast to play. She has excellent survivability (LOH), good UMD, and great self buffs (resists, divine favor, prayer, zeal, divine might, etc.). The only drawback is the constant clicking of effects, but having extend makes this less painful. I wish DM would last longer than a minute.

[baddax]

Why go khopesh? Feats are so starved on Palidans that it doesn't make much since going with khopeshes and makes no since to switch over at level 18. He's making a drow so he should just use rapiers and short swords. With the enhancements it's like a free OTWF feat.

My preference would be:
1) TWF
3) Power Attack/Extend
6) ITWF
9) IC:Pierce
12) GTWF
15) Power Attack/Extend
18) Toughness

Imo if you are going str. based it only makes sense to go khopesh. If you are going dex based go with short swords and rapiers.

[baddax]

I have a TWF DPS Dwarven Ranger, a TWF DPS WF Barbarian, and just completed my TWF DPS palidan (I used to have a S&B Palidan but deleted him a long time ago).

Best over-all sustained DPS goes to the Barb, but he can't self-heal or self-buff, no UMD and is good for pretty much just DPS.

The Ranger and Pally are pretty similar in DPS, average DPS probably favors the Ranger especially against favored enemies but his UMD is ****, he can barely self-heal, and is somewhat boring to play.

Now my DPS pally, which IMO has the best burst melee DPS in the game (Divine Sacrifice & Exhaulted Smites) is a blast to play. She has excellent survivability (LOH), good UMD, and great self buffs (resists, divine favor, prayer, zeal, divine might, etc.). The only drawback is the constant clicking of effects, but having extend makes this less painful. I wish DM would last longer than a minute.

/ agree
as long as my DM,DS,ES hold out my pally can dps with the best of them. however when i dont have these clickies he is borderline at best.

[Vengenance]

Imo if you are going str. based it only makes sense to go khopesh. If you are going dex based go with short swords and rapiers.

If you're going human I 100% agree that khopesh is you best option, but then you either have to take a -4 to hit if you want to dual wield khopeshes or try to squeeze in OTWF, which is tough to do on such a feat starved class. This is much more paletable on a human since you have the free bonus feat.

Now as a drow, you are going to start off with one less feat, which makes squeezing in OTWF even more difficult. Going rapier over khopesh you loose a little bit in DPS, but not a ton. Your green steel khopesh is 1D10 and crits on a 17 or 15% of the time. Your green steel rapier is 1D8+2 (+2 Hit/Damage Drow Enhancements) and crits on a 15 (20%). Your over-all to hit is higher and your damage output will be similar if not higher than the person using a khopesh. I'm sure someone here can do the math and determine what is actually better, my quick math favored the rapier, but I may be incorrect.

[Elurian]

Haven't been around for a couple of years, but if khopeshes still have the x3 crit, they are superior in terms of total damage output. The best easy formula for calculating the percentage uplift is (threat probability)*(crit multiplier-1) or 40% for a khop with imp crit vs. 30% for rapier/scim and 20% for standard swords and axes. Confirmation plays in as well of course, but that varies by target AC and is generally pretty close to a wash (the increased probability of each actual hit also being a threat against hard to hit opponents is almost directly in proportion to the increased difficulty of confirming that threat).

That said, I agree with the conclusion regarding the build and would probably stick with rapier/scim, because drow/pal TWF really does need to watch feat consumption. Tons of DPS potential there. There's also a lot to be said for finesse pally TWF builds too - the extra DPS from "special" sources applies to both weapons, and means that strength plays a less significant role as a % of your damage output than it would for a fighter or barbarian.

Edit: Keep in mind the benefit of crit-dependent special effects is an advantage of high-threat w/o regard to multiplier.

[jakeelala]

Haven't been around for a couple of years, but if khopeshes still have the x3 crit, they are superior in terms of total damage output. The best easy formula for calculating the percentage uplift is (threat probability)*(crit multiplier-1) or 40% for a khop with imp crit vs. 30% for rapier/scim and 20% for standard swords and axes. Confirmation plays in as well of course, but that varies by target AC and is generally pretty close to a wash (the increased probability of each actual hit also being a threat against hard to hit opponents is almost directly in proportion to the increased difficulty of confirming that threat).

That said, I agree with the conclusion regarding the build and would probably stick with rapier/scim, because drow/pal TWF really does need to watch feat consumption. Tons of DPS potential there. There's also a lot to be said for finesse pally TWF builds too - the extra DPS from "special" sources applies to both weapons, and means that strength plays a less significant role as a % of your damage output than it would for a fighter or barbarian.

Edit: Keep in mind the benefit of crit-dependent special effects is an advantage of high-threat w/o regard to multiplier.

when you add in the enhancement based racial +2/+2 with rapiers you're actually looking at basically the same damage as a khopesh, but higher to hit and crit confirms. Since you get the +2, you get half a OTWF feat with two rapiers as well.

No question, go rapier if drow TWF.

[Monkey_Archer]

Why not start with stat like this?
15
16
12
10
8
17
Put all points in strength when level up, eat +2 int tome(for 1 more skill point, can skip if don't have) at lv1, eat +1 dex tome for two weapon fighting feat line. Then it should be all good,just need to do raids until he gets at least a +3 cha tome. Easy stat by lv20

15+5level up+6item=26
16+1tome+6item+1drow enhancement=24
12+6item=18
10+2tome=12
8+6item=14 <- enough to cast lv4 spell
17+3tome+6item+2pally=28

Ultimately tomed stat would be
15+5level up+6item+4tome=30
16+4tome+6item+2drow enhancement=28
12+6item+4tome=22
10+4tome=14
8+6item+4tome=18
17+4tome+6item+3pally=30

All numbers will stay even if you get the luck with tomes. Of course you can count in +3 shroud exceptional stat and +1 liteny, which will yell you +4 more. You'll do pretty good damage, have uber saves (if you take force of personality too!)

Ding Ding Ding!
We have a winner!

Same stats i went with.
Maxed UMD, and intimidate.
Feats: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, PA, Toughness, IC Piercing..... probably Extend at lvl 18.

[Monkey_Archer]

when you add in the enhancement based racial +2/+2 with rapiers you're actually looking at basically the same damage as a khopesh, but higher to hit and crit confirms. Since you get the +2, you get half a OTWF feat with two rapiers as well.

No question, go rapier if drow TWF.

You forgot to mention Divine Sacrifice with rapier is also better then Khopesh

[BattleCircle]

You forgot to mention Divine Sacrifice with rapier is also better then Khopesh

Don't forget about elves getting scimmy proficiency with the new mod/game

If I am not mistaken that includes drow elf

[Roaringdragon]

I'm wondering will this still be good during this mod?

[unbongwah]

I think people are still processing how the U9 changes are gonna affect endgame DPS. Still, for a TWF pure drow paladin with DM IV, this is how I would do it:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 275 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 17
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             17                    22

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might IV

The +3 CHA tome won't be easy to come by, but since you don't need it until lvl cap you can keep grinding for one at endgame. If you prefer khopeshes to rapiers, take IC Slash instead of Pierce and swap Extend for khopesh prof. This would also free 4 enh pts by dropping drow weapon enhs.

EDIT: if you're resource-challenged, the +1 CHA tome can be delayed until lvl 15 (DM III pre-req); but the +1 DEX tome needs to be taken before lvl 6 to get ITWF. The +2 STR & CON tomes aren't required per se, but what melee build doesn't plan to take both someday?