Cleric Healing Guide

[Aranticus]

Shroud where your other cleric is really bad is also an exception. Shroud Hard or Elite is an exception. Abbot is an exception. VoD... etc.

my cleric has no problems solo cleric in shroud groups which comprises of decent (not the uber ones) players with weapons able to bypass boss DR. yes there are certain quests where you will need to use resouces even on normal, just using vod as an example

Topping typically occurs in Shroud when everyone is at 90%ish. The goal is to whip a scroll to accomplish one of two things. 1 - You immediately follow a new volley of damage because of the delay in using the scroll. 2 - You top the party off and buy your spell timers a second or two to catch up. Neither is bad.

topping up is not bad but to give advice to new players that they have to top others up with consumables is bad. part 1 dun need topping up, nothing dangerous. in part 2 and 3 should be sufficient with sp. in part 4, some topping may be required but with typical 2 pass runs, no one should have to use consumables. in part 5. stand in pool and heal away

Please explain the 50% remarks. I'm not following your concern with this. A good cleric is not defined on performing their duties "sufficient to get the job done." For superior healing abilities getting the job done isn't enough. I pride myself on ending Part 5 in the Shroud with over 1200 SP ans solo healing it. Sure I could have backed off some Scrolls and made up for it with Spells but that reserve is what prevents anyone from dieing. When the **** hits the fan you will be spamming Casts like crazy and burning through SP faster than you'd imagine... I want that SP pool in reserve to do that.

Val

3. Occassionally the group will take several big hits and several party members will be put below 50%. In this situation you want to cast your Primary Mass Cure immediately followed by your Secondary Mass Cure which is usually followed by a Mass Mod Scroll if they are not 100%.

this is what you wrote. i just wanted to highlight that percentages are not useful as a benchmark for healing. people with higher hp will have a higher 50% than those with less hp

if you have to use scrolls in part 5, then you are doing it wrong

[Aranticus]

nice pull, you got lucky. i tend to pull +1 kamas of everbright.
ok, good for you, I assume you pulled that on your cleric . . .
anyway, I don't know who the sucker was but that's way too much. congrats on selling it though.
so how far will that 50 k take ya. 5 csw wands @ 1200 plat each. stack of heal scrolls 100 (think at
roughly 400 plat apiece) yupp, its gone. Oops, you need to get your raise dead scrolls too. Not to mention
all the cure mass scrolls the op wants you to carry.

its by being able to recognise that certain stuff are worth more than the others. items like cloak of energy resist 10, are also very sellable. pure stat gear ie +2 dex with no other fluff, are also good sellers. using the AH is an art. setting a 3 day timer and put in a decent price will get you buyers. its not how lucky you are but if you can just sell stuff for a little more, you would be in a better position. like another poster said, check collectibles. stuff like lightning soarwoods sell for 50k pp a piece as well

if 1 wand is 1200 plat, 5 = 6000 plat = 6k pp. 1 stack of heal scrolls = 12-15 k plat. mass cure mod is the same price as heal scrolls, raise dead you dun need more than 10 (about 1000 plat a piece). if you are using heal/mcmw scrolls, you dun need to use wands....

[Leyoni]

I want to say that this was useful information, so thanks.

I also want to ask, is it people's expectations that clerics have to carry stacks of scrolls? Is there an efficient way to handle healing without relying on wands or scrolls?

Reason for question is, I hope, obvious -- plat. A cleric can quickly run out of money -- or can they?

Thx

[Demoyn]

\1. I didn't recommend Battle Clerics take Maximize and NOT take Empower Heal. As the charts show Empower Healing is always more efficient... if I could have fit it in my Cleric's build I would have taken it. Most Battle Clerics cannot afford Empower Heal unfortunately so the guide is built around that assumption.

You're right. But you DID mention that you'd take maximize over empower healing, which is just dumb for a battle cleric. I'll assume that your reasoning is for the utility of maximized blade barriers, but a well built battle cleric doesn't often use blade barriers.

A well built battle cleric uses melee for damage. Since blade barrier works best when you're in constant motion, and melee works best when you're not (even accounting for optimal swing break), it makes it silly to throw blade barriers at most obstacles.

As such a battle cleric should take empower healing INSTEAD of maximize, not in accompaniment of if. Battle clerics need mana (or efficiency if you prefer) much worse than they need a rare boost to a secondary offensive spell.

[Aranticus]

I want to say that this was useful information, so thanks.

I also want to ask, is it people's expectations that clerics have to carry stacks of scrolls? Is there an efficient way to handle healing without relying on wands or scrolls?

it really depends, for most quests, your sp should be sufficient. there are however some quests where you are expected to have and use scrolls, ie vod. most of the time, you can recoup back from donations by players. however, as a cleric, its very important to have backup. i generally keep 100 heal, 100 mcmw, 100 raise dead on my cleric. i also carry 10 major pots too

if its a good group but beset by problems like lag or bad luck, i will exhaust all my supplies to keep it going. but if the group is one without coordination, full of indian chiefs, etc, i will not use my resources to keep idiots alive

Reason for question is, I hope, obvious -- plat. A cleric can quickly run out of money -- or can they?

Thx

a cleric can quickly run out of money if you promote stupid play by keeping mana sponges alive

[Demoyn]

Reason for question is, I hope, obvious -- plat. A cleric can quickly run out of money -- or can they?

Let me put it to you this way... my main is a battle cleric with under 1200 mana at level 16. I run him at least 10 hours a week (at least... probably more like 30) and I go through about 100 heal scrolls a month on average.

If you're using more money in equipment, repair, and consumables than you make from quests then you just need to learn to play better. If someone's complaining that they can't afford their cleric then you should suggest they try a class they may be better suited for.

EDIT: This is at end game. Battle clerics (though not heal-specced clerics) are actually slightly underequipped to heal between levels 5 and 10. These specific builds may fall behind in equipment because they have to spend more money on consumables. Once they get the heal spell, though, they should rarely use consumables anymore.

PS: Saving mana for crunch time is just dumb. Crunch time is what mana pots are for. Definite loss of money vs. possible lack of money... possible (mana pot) wins every time.

[Comfortably]

I don't "enjoy" using scrolls, but I don't mind...scrolls are cheap enough...13k plat for a stack of 100heal or MCMW. I really don't ever use pots on my clerics...I'd rather be able to nuke the Abbot a bit more on one of my casters. But the fact of the matter is, in some end game content if you don't have a stack of scrolls you might have to drink a few pots unless you happen to have some sp clickies. (ie, Vile Blashpemy, Spellstoring ring...)

[Enochroot]

You're right. But you DID mention that you'd take maximize over empower healing, which is just dumb for a battle cleric. I'll assume that your reasoning is for the utility of maximized blade barriers, but a well built battle cleric doesn't often use blade barriers.

A well built battle cleric uses melee for damage. Since blade barrier works best when you're in constant motion, and melee works best when you're not (even accounting for optimal swing break), it makes it silly to throw blade barriers at most obstacles.

As such a battle cleric should take empower healing INSTEAD of maximize, not in accompaniment of if. Battle clerics need mana (or efficiency if you prefer) much worse than they need a rare boost to a secondary offensive spell.

Stop spreading misinformation.

Without taking the ENTIRE enhancement line, as you've said you don't take (12 APS!) - empower healing is between 0%-2% (2 AP or 6 AP) more efficient than maximize on a MCMW.

And that's before quicken, which I know you said you don't use, but let others make up their own minds, or at least seperate the two issues. ***edit, I'm grammar ***********

With quicken, it's 3%-5% LESS efficient to use emp. healing instead of maximize.

And this is all assuming you're using the necklace, and not the torc. Which, I would propose, should be in any "well-built [battle] cleric's" toolkit. Without the necklace, you're looking at -3% to -5% less efficient emp. healing than maximize! (before quicken, even WORSE with quicken)

And all that just to not be able to cast useful BB's, which absolutely obliterate things in general content.

So please, stop saying emp. healing is ALWAYS more efficient than maximize, when it is CLEARLY not the case. (Or show me your math where it IS the case)

[Valezra]

PS: Saving mana for crunch time is just dumb. Crunch time is what mana pots are for. Definite loss of money vs. possible lack of money... possible (mana pot) wins every time.

That is actually backwords logic. You can sell mana pots for a lot more than a bunch of scrolls. If you abuse scrolls and sell your excess pots then you'll be making more money than the other way around. I consider people needing Mana Pots more than rarely as doing it wrong. It's been almost 2 months since I've used a mana pot and I haven't failed one raid yet in that time.

this is what you wrote. i just wanted to highlight that percentages are not useful as a benchmark for healing. people with higher hp will have a higher 50% than those with less hp

if you have to use scrolls in part 5, then you are doing it wrong

Percentages are definately useful. When your healing in DDO you can't possible know every single players HP amount all the time. The benchmarks I gave are accurate based on the average player out there. When we all heal in raids do we not watch healthbars and make a decision as to when to cast? That decision is based on a subconcious determination we all make going into the raid based on our observance of how effective our heals are on the party. Often I find the percentages I gave are good averages.

Telling people they are "doing it wrong" just because they don't do it like you is not sound argument. 80% of Clerics out there burn through there SP and then dump the responsibility on the other Cleric in the raid. It was just the other night the other cleric says over voice chat, "Out of mana, on scrolls now guys." - Why would he run out of SP? A good cleric starts with scrolls and manages his SP consumption if he doesn't have the SP and efficiency to last the whole raid. Again, these "don't use scrolls" arguments are completely moot in raids like Shroud Hard/Elite for example. You can either learn to incorporate scrolls into the curing chain as I'm teaching or you can chug mana pots and just throw away tons of money.

Yes, you can heal through Shroud normal without ANY scrolls once you get good and are properly geared and specced. I don't want to teach people to just heal through Shroud Normal... I want clerics who can heal through anything. Put money aside for a moment, there is no argument that a scroll which costs 0 SP is infinately more efficient than a spell which does cost SP. If you want to have amazing efficiency you can learn to heal like the guide... if you want to "get the job done" dont use scrolls and keep a lot of Mnemonic enhancers on you.

Val

[Demoyn]

It's been almost 2 months since I've used a mana pot and I haven't failed one raid yet in that time.

Same here. The difference is that I also don't throw away scrolls like used tissue paper.

[Cowdenicus]

You're right. But you DID mention that you'd take maximize over empower healing, which is just dumb for a battle cleric. I'll assume that your reasoning is for the utility of maximized blade barriers, but a well built battle cleric doesn't often use blade barriers.

A well built battle cleric uses melee for damage. Since blade barrier works best when you're in constant motion, and melee works best when you're not (even accounting for optimal swing break), it makes it silly to throw blade barriers at most obstacles.

As such a battle cleric should take empower healing INSTEAD of maximize, not in accompaniment of if. Battle clerics need mana (or efficiency if you prefer) much worse than they need a rare boost to a secondary offensive spell.

LOL you mean your clerics.....

My clerics solo based on Blade Barrier and Destruction.

[valorik]

A well built battle cleric uses melee for damage. Since blade barrier works best when you're in constant motion, and melee works best when you're not (even accounting for optimal swing break), it makes it silly to throw blade barriers at most obstacles.

my battle cleric uses blade barrier a LOT there's just no reason to melee down a mob of 14 guys, whne you could cast a barrier and take them down 6x as fast, not to mention the ability to use melee in conjunction WITH blade barrier. I'll take maxamized blade barriers over a little healing efficiency any day.

[Demoyn]

Stop spreading misinformation.

I'll stop the second someone points out that I am (and is correct).

Without taking the ENTIRE enhancement line, as you've said you don't take (12 APS!) - empower healing is between 0%-2% (2 AP or 6 AP) more efficient than maximize on a MCMW.

So you admit that the improved empower II (the enhancement I stop at) is more efficient than maximize? Well ****... maybe I'll be incorrect next time.

And that's before quicken, which I know you said you don't use, but let others make up their own minds, or at least seperate the two issues. ***edit, I'm grammar ***********

Even if you DO have quicken, are you really going to plan your feats to save mana in TWO quests instead of the hundred others that you run? If you turn quicken on in any quest other than Kobold or VoD you're just a horribly unskilled healer. Can't be incorrect here as this is an opinion, but from a logical standpoint it's still the side to choose.

With quicken, it's 3%-5% LESS efficient to use emp. healing instead of maximize.

Ok, let's do the math. It's 5% less efficient to use empowered healing in two quests. It's 2% more efficient to use empowered healing in ~100 quests. That puts me at about 190% more efficient than you. Maybe I'll be incorrect next time.

And this is all assuming you're using the necklace, and not the torc. Which, I would propose, should be in any "well-built [battle] cleric's" toolkit. Without the necklace, you're looking at -3% to -5% less efficient emp. healing than maximize! (before quicken, even WORSE with quicken)

Even a well built battle cleric shouldn't be having aggro often. That's pretty much a wasted slot if it requires you to get hit and you're not getting hit. I suppose it would be decent enough for Harry, but I'm not about to farm a raid necklace for one fight. Obviously this is also an opinion, so maybe I'll be wrong next time.

And all that just to not be able to cast useful BB's, which absolutely obliterate things in general content.

I absolutely obliterate things in general content with my melee capabilities (though not quite as much as a pure melee character, thus the lack of aggro). I'd completely agree with you on a caster cleric, but why would you spend 5 feats (power attack, improved critical, two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, and greater two weapon fighting) to get supreme melee capabilities when you could spend one (maximize) and completely obliterate general content? Oh right... you wouldn't. Maybe I'll be incorrect next time.

So please, stop saying emp. healing is ALWAYS more efficient than maximize, when it is CLEARLY not the case. (Or show me your math where it IS the case)

Well ****... there's nothing else to answer to and I'm still not incorrect. How about we just compromise then? Instead of saying empowered healing is ALWAYS more efficient than maximize (which technically I haven't said to that affect), I'll just say that battle clerics who choose empowered healing instead of maximize are ALWAYS smarter than those that don't (unless they pay $15 a month to only run two quests over and over)?

[Valezra]

Same here. The difference is that I also don't throw away scrolls like used tissue paper.

Wow, you presume much. I throw away scrolls like "used tissue paper"? Please quote me where I said I go through scrolls in any major way?

Re-read the guide... slowly this time... and you will see that every time I discuss Scrolls it is in direct relation to improving efficiency. No one has made one argument that scrolls aren't efficient. It is the cleric's judgement to determine how many scrolls he/she needs to use in any given raid. My Pure Cleric rarely uses scrolls (unless I'm just trying to see how much SP I can end part 5 of Shroud with for funsies)... whereas my Battle Cleric tends to use Heal Scrolls a bit. Many raids have I completed without scrolls... yay for me... but when you are running really tough content on the toughest of settings efficiency will be king... this guide will get it done.

Unless you have a valid argument against something in the guide. Something I calculated wrong perhaps, or some constructive critism please don't spam your hatred here any more. You don't like using scrolls... we get it.

If this is some community wide perception that my statement "the most efficient clerics abuse scrolls" is horrible and obtuse then please speak your peace... and I will remove the guide if the community feels that way. Otherwise I get the feeling some folks are justing posting here to be argumentative with nothing useful to add.

Val

[Demoyn]

LOL you mean your clerics.....

My clerics solo based on Blade Barrier and Destruction.

Then your clerics aren't battle clerics, they're caster clerics. As such you have no horse in this race... and no opinion on the matter.

[Demoyn]

Wow, you presume much. I throw away scrolls like "used tissue paper"? Please quote me where I said I go through scrolls in any major way?

1. Avoid topping off the party with your SP. There will be a waste of SP if you do and efficiency is the name of the game when healing these situations. Instead use your Cure Mod Mass scrolls to top off the group. <same as a pure cleric>

I suppose technically you didn't say "I throw away scrolls like used tissue paper", but to most sentient beings this statement will mean the same thing. I've clericed a group once or twice in the past three years, and my experience is that groups need topping off after every fight or two. That adds up to "tissue paper".

[Enochroot]

Then your clerics aren't battle clerics, they're caster clerics. As such you have no horse in this race... and no opinion on the matter.

****, I agree with you here. Bringing in offensive caster clerics was definitely a derail.

[Demoyn]

my battle cleric uses blade barrier a LOT there's just no reason to melee down a mob of 14 guys, whne you could cast a barrier and take them down 6x as fast, not to mention the ability to use melee in conjunction WITH blade barrier. I'll take maxamized blade barriers over a little healing efficiency any day.

Sounds like you play your cleric about the same way that a guy with premature ejac******* plays real life. One or two little bumps in the road and you just won't finish the race.

Don't get me wrong... I cast blade barrier when I'm overwhelmed by mobs also. Outside of Shroud part 2, trial by fire, or madstone, though, if you've got 14 mobs on you then you need a better group (or you're just running through lowbie content for favor and you don't need maximize anyway).

EDIT: I'll also give you ghosts of perdition, even though it's less than 14 mobs.

[Valezra]

I'll just say that battle clerics who choose empowered healing instead of maximize are ALWAYS smarter than those that don't (unless they pay $15 a month to only run two quests over and over)?

As I clearly show in the guide Empower Healing Metamagic is more efficient per SP than Maximize. Maximize is a great way though to not only crank up your damage but also to improve your efficiency over no metamagic feat. So the Maximize Battle Cleric gets a 2 for 1 with Maximize and doesn't overpower his Heal spell and the Empower Healing Battle Cleric produces nearly the lowest DPS in the game and gained less than 5% more efficiency over Maximize. I would say you are indeed incorrect.

Val

[Valezra]

Sounds like you play your cleric about the same way that a guy with premature ejac******* plays real life. One or two little bumps in the road and you just won't finish the race.

Don't get me wrong... I cast blade barrier when I'm overwhelmed by mobs also. Outside of Shroud part 2, trial by fire, or madstone, though, if you've got 14 mobs on you then you need a better group (or you're just running through lowbie content for favor and you don't need maximize anyway).

Now you are literally just slinging insults and providing misinformation. He didn't say he was "overwhelmed"... in fact when any good cleric uses a Maximized Blade Barrier they are in complete control of the dozen+ mobs they are killing. Also, you quote a bunch of lowbie content... we're all running big boy raids and quests... not Madstone and Trial by Fire.

Val