Ranged Combat Gimped?

[MadMike89]

Well, this is gonna be my 2 bits worth on ranged combat being gimped. That's all i've heard and seen in the forums on how ranged combat is gimped. Yes, it is true that some of your highest DPS damage is from a caster laying down a empowered/maximized firewall or some other similar spell. A pure 16th lvl fighter or barbarian, if spec'd right, can deal out massive damage. I look at it like this, D. P. S....."Damage Per Swing". What will ultimately cause more damage with one shot, a critical blow from a 2-hander slashing weapon (ex, greatsword, greataxe), or a critical shot from a Long Bow or Cross-bow? I vote the 2-hander slasher. It's not that ranged combat is inherently gimped, it in all reality just does not do as much damage as a melee spec'd Fighter or Barbarian. If you get the right set-up, the right weapons for certain situations, a "ranged" combatant could be invaluble and even deadly. A player just has to know what weapon to use, what tactics to use in any given situation. My 16th lvl Ranger/Fighter is completely ranged except for duel wielding vorpals and muckbanes for slimes and such. Other than that, she does nothing but ranged combat. I find with what light repeaters she runs with, she does decent enough DPS for my liking, plus she also has Evasion, which most of your "DPS" Fighters DO NOT have. She can cast buffs, heal herself and other party members in a pinch. She can scout/sneak with the best Barbarians and Rogues. So as for ranged combat itself, you just have to know how to play your class with what strengths and weaknesses you might have. The way i see it, if EVERY single class could do the same DPS as all the other classes...that would be just simply boring! Every class has its strengths and weaknesses, so just deal with it!!!

[Aerendil]

Agreed. Although I would like to point out that "dps" generally means "damage per second".

There is also generally a distinction between average damage per second (dps) and what is referred to as "burst dps". For Rangers, this would be Multishot. For other classes, such as Paladin, it would be when they have all their clickies going.

But yeah, ranged dps is fine. It had a bad rap for a long time, and is still generally inferior to melee, but the margin between the two is slowly dwindling.
As other posts on this board have shown, a group of ranged Rangers can more or less decimate anything in their path.

Level 20 pure Ranger is going to be even more disgusting for dps...

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

I have to say you can pump out some great DPS with a bow but you have to be manyshotting so... I mean it works.. just... sometimes

[Borror0]

I have to say you can pump out some great DPS with a bow but you have to be manyshotting so... I mean it works.. just... sometimes

Ranged DPS is overpoweringly too good... once everyone two minutes... for 20 seconds...

[MrCow]

Ranged DPS is overpoweringly too good... once everyone two minutes... for 20 seconds...

Unless you are fortunate enough to be hitting 3+ things at a time (Improved Precise Shot).

[szaijan]

IMO, if you instituted an across the board 25% increase in ranged DPS (likely by increasing attack speed by 25%), ranged combat would still be considered gimped compared to melee and spell DPS. It *SHOULD* be gimped compared to melee, because the archer is in less personal danger while they deal damage and compared to the mage because SP are a less renewable resource than arrows. just how gimped ranged combat should be compared to the other two is the question, and right now I think it's way too feeble.

I'd love to see the above 25% attack speed increase implemented on Lammania so we could get an idea of what it looks like in practice. I think it would bring things closer to the right balance, but we'll never know until it gets tested.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I think people fail to see that gimped can still be effective.
And gimped has no bearing on what can be tactically superior in certain situations.

IMO good chars are versitile. And good players know when to use the best tactic for the situation.
Balanced for fun of course. (I zerge when I know it's not wise for instance..or choose to charge and get the fight over with, rather than continue ranging when it's obvious I could take him out eventually, but it could take minutes....but I also will choose to stand back and range if there is a good chance I would die quickly by charging to melee....things like that....the best tactic might not be the most fun choice at times)

[UnderwearModel]

The poor ranger had to waste inventory space to carry 1200 arrows because it took 12 inventory slots.

[Noctus]

I look at it like this, D. P. S....."Damage Per Swing". What will ultimately cause more damage with one shot, a critical blow from a 2-hander slashing weapon (ex, greatsword, greataxe), or a critical shot from a Long Bow or Cross-bow? I vote the 2-hander slasher.

DPS is "damage per second" not "damage per swing". There is a hugh difference between these two things. As damage per swing is useless when comparing characters damage output.


An example with arbitrary numbers to get the difference across:

Character A has an incredible damage per swing of lets say 200, but this swing is animated really slow, so you can only land one every 2 seconds.
--> He has a DPS of 100.

Character B can only land significantly less damaging swings at 50 each, but they are so fast that he can land 3 of them per second.
--> He has a DPS of 150.


So if you compare "damge per swing" Character A wins, yet he deals 50% less damage that the "looser" of this comparisation.

Thats why "damage per second" is the value you have to compare. Using the right tools when assessing character´s abilities is fundamental to getting right results.






Or you could end up with a character at level 16 that uses Repeaters for "DPS"......

[rezo]

I just build a repeater ranger and the dps out put is very nice. I can't wait to get to the higher lvl's to start using the repeaters with the nice goodies on them.

[xberto]

It *SHOULD* be gimped compared to melee, because the archer is in less personal danger while they deal damage

That exactly right. You can't expect to sit back in the safe zone and deal out barbarian damage. Besides, a Ranger Archer, in addition to their superior ranged abilitity, self healing, and self buffing, still have excellent built-in TWF ability.

[Hirosue]

Played correctly and in tune with the party ranged builds can do pretty good. With the right selection of bows/repeaters of course.

I have been levelling up my ranger/rogue the last few months and he does pretty well with improved precise shot (bolts damage all mobs they pass through on their way to the target) and a rate of fire of at least 100-150 shots per minute his damage output can stack up quite nicely indeed.

Against the shroud boss with transmuting pure good heavy repeater does 3750 to 7000 damage per minute

Its a lot of fun also paralysing 5-10 mobs at the same time, banisher and disrupter both work pretty nicely as well.

Ammo management can be awkward for a while. But once you get 2nd tier house D favour you can buy +3 sturdy denith ammo of various types (+3, 75% returning). And add in 3 or 4 wide quivers into your pack each of which can take a 1000 bolt stack x3. Ammo is no longer such a major issue so long as you remember to restock every now and again of course.

cant wait to build my x3 acid earthgrab heavy repeater, on second thoughts saundering ooze or maybe lightening strike. all look like good fun to me

[captain1z]

best ranged damage your gunna get is a wounding bow, with a line of tagets, many shot and presice shot. Lots of stuff will die............. but if you dont think ranged is gimped, ask yourself "what are you doing in raids, when manyshot is not active".

- if the answer is melee, well, there you go.
- if the answer is still ranging, then I probably should warn you that most of those creatures have well over 20,000 hps (trash mob) 10 x that for bosses. They chew through AC 50 like tiolet paper, can hit for upwards of 50 pts per shot and you are giving them +4 to hit.


With proper tactics, ranged has its place, but its not a substitute for melee or caster dps.................. its support damage. Hopefully with curse, destruction, shattermantle or some other debuff added to it and really not more than 1/6 characters should be doing it......... unless of course the clerics need a break.