13/6/1 but what race and str or dex?

[purple_paladin]

So ive decided that when I finally get to 32 point build that my first build is going to be a 13rogue/6ranger/1monk because the build honestly just looks amazing. I have never played a rogue more then 1 level and rarely make it to endgame content. My highest character is a lvl 12 bard so im getting close to being able to nock out all those favor quests(still only sitting at like 8-900 i think, i know, im slow).

I know the general concensus will probly be that haflings are the best thanks to the dex boost/extra flanking dmg and attack/ extra 1 ac for size.

I personally prefer strength builds most the time...

How good would this build be if i went the str route and if i want to go str build while keeping a pretty high dex for ac what race/stats would you suggest? I love playing characters with khopesh's because i love seeing the big crits so should i take human? Are khopesh's a good choice for this build or is it just smarter to just skip it since i should be going for the crit chance of rapier/scimitar for full effect from the crippling strike?

I assume hafling is the obvious choice for the dex build with something like 12 19 14 12 12 8. however what would the best choice for a more str based character be or would hafling still be the best?

I suspect maybe warforged since if its str based it could take more use from power attack and extra hp from WF? I could also see dwarf if the armor mastery boost for extra ac + dwarf hp.

So whats your oppinion on the best race/stats for this build?

[Noctus]

Going STR really cuts into the AC potential, comparatively, of the DEX-based 13/6/1.

While the STR version of this build idea is not that Über, it is still a very good level split for a "Though Rogue".


The key question before i can give further build advice is:
As you already want to go STR, do you want to complete the step and go Full DPS build, or do you still want to aim for a somewhat lower, but still working AC on your Rogue?

[lord_of_rage]

I have a lvl9 str build halfling who is a blast. On that toon I went fighter over monk. I'll lose 3-4 points of ac when he shifts to robes but he is still a blast very survivable and great dps when your tanks can hold aggro.

Now I rolled his ac bretheren 15str 16dex 14con 12 int 11 wis 8 cha. The reason is +1s are cheap and easy and with +4 tomes coming up it can even the build up. The dex con and int scores have +2s. This build is at lvl4 currently and cruising just as well. But it depends on your playstyle. If you consistently like to move flank and stay in the fight they work very well. With stat dmg becoming less effective in the new mod str based rogues should shine. I personally have listened to impaqt on that and have found the two builds I am working to be two of the most fun I have. I think you love them. But you will have pretty good ac not insanly good ac.
I think it depends on what you like and how you play.

[D'rin]

I have been debating the very same questions. Here are the merits that I have figured out for each variation if have looked at.

If going dex based for AC Halfling is number one. Mainly because you get the guile bonuses for sneak attack which is where most of your damage is going to come from and an extra +1 AC from size. But also the synergy of halfling dex etc. Elf and drow also make very good AC builds. You will loose one AC from size but gain +3 damage when not using sneak attack. The +3 from no -2 str at start and both have a favored weapon that is finessable so you get the racial enhancements.

For str based you can really go with just about any race. That being said, elf, halfling and drow can still get respectable AC even when str based. Your going to start with a high dex and get a +2 racial. So you will be roughly 4-5 points of dex behind the dex builds. This is going to mean 2-3 AC differance depending on gear make up. You will also have a higher DPS going str based.

For other races Human and dwarf are about equal. With human you could fit in kopesh for more damage for dwarf you get more con and dwarven axes for good base damage(best for construct/undead killing of all the races). Dwarves also get the spell defense which is a huge +5 against spells. Makes any evasion for spells incredible.

The best dps all around (both with and without sneak attack) is going to be a str based halfling. Your only going to loose about +3 damage all the time but gain I believe +8 when sneak attacking. And once you have a radiance rapier/scimitar you a killing machine.

Now one other option mentioned is not going with monk. If you are not going for AC then go str based and you don't really care about the 3-4 ac from wisdom so you could take another class. Fighter was already mentioned but one that is over looked is barbarian. You get a short rage buff for bosses and extra speed that will stack with acrobat speed for a total of 20% on top of haste/striding.

[purple_paladin]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yea I found Impact's Leesa3.0 build and looked over it again and since it was a drow I went ahead and built it and got it to about lvl 2 last night. I think Impact's builds are commonly very bad ass and well thought out builds and I think seeing his build and Westside a couple weeks ago is what got me thinking so much about this level split. I think Impact's build has the balance of pretty good ac while getting str up enough to still be a str build, and in response to Noctus asking if I would want to go full DPS build I think I would prefer a balance because generally for "full dps" you need to max out str and I rarely think spending 6 starting points on a character stat is worth it especially on a build like this that gets so much from every stat.

My biggest problem with Impact's build though is that as awesomely balanced as it appears it doesn't feel like it will have enough HP's since it is drow with only the 12 starting con. 7hp every rogue lvl seems like a low starting point for a strong melee character even if it has very high ac.

I think this concern is my main reason why I would choose to go the ~12 18 14 12 12 8 hafling(I hate weapon finesse though, and i know its only 20hp but an extra 2 ac? as well). That or maybe a dwarf/WF with something like 16 14 16 12 12 6 for the big hp boost but my problem with that is i would be losing out on a good ~3-4ac? compared to Impact's and ~10ac? less then the hafling and i might have trouble getting GTWF/STWF.

A big question I have is how much of my dps is going to be coming from the sneak attacks when str based compared to dex based.




(this is why i both hate and love this game, no decision is ever wrong or bad just different, I just want the best possible character ever, give me a god class please)

[lord_of_rage]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yea I found Impact's Leesa3.0 build and looked over it again and since it was a drow I went ahead and built it and got it to about lvl 2 last night. I think Impact's builds are commonly very bad ass and well thought out builds and I think seeing his build and Westside a couple weeks ago is what got me thinking so much about this level split. I think Impact's build has the balance of pretty good ac while getting str up enough to still be a str build, and in response to Noctus asking if I would want to go full DPS build I think I would prefer a balance because generally for "full dps" you need to max out str and I rarely think spending 6 starting points on a character stat is worth it especially on a build like this that gets so much from every stat.

My biggest problem with Impact's build though is that as awesomely balanced as it appears it doesn't feel like it will have enough HP's since it is drow with only the 12 starting con. 7hp every rogue lvl seems like a low starting point for a strong melee character even if it has very high ac.

I think this concern is my main reason why I would choose to go the ~12 18 14 12 12 8 hafling(I hate weapon finesse though, and i know its only 20hp but an extra 2 ac? as well). That or maybe a dwarf/WF with something like 16 14 16 12 12 6 for the big hp boost but my problem with that is i would be losing out on a good ~3-4ac? compared to Impact's and ~10ac? less then the hafling and i might have trouble getting GTWF/STWF.

A big question I have is how much of my dps is going to be coming from the sneak attacks when str based compared to dex based.




(this is why i both hate and love this game, no decision is ever wrong or bad just different, I just want the best possible character ever, give me a god class please)

You could just slap a +2 con tome and that will help. The stats in my above post have worked out well for a halfling so far for me. So you might like that route. But Impaqt still knows his rogues much better than a mere pedwan such as myself. I did take toughness because Im not dex based. So currently at lvl 9 with gear he is at 186 hp and av ac in the low 40s self buffed. I havent sliped robes on yet due to the lack of armored bracers. But I have no question that any of imps builds will work out fine. Its all up to your playstyle.

[Draccus]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

A big question I have is how much of my dps is going to be coming from the sneak attacks when str based compared to dex based.

It's pretty significant, actually. I play a dex based rogue even though the DPS is lower compared to strength based. Being dex based offers some advantages outside of DPS but if you're just talking about damage, a strength based, assassin PrE rogue is the highest damage in the game.

Using Dresek as an example, I have 34 dex. Now, I made some poor choices during character creation that I regret (I took 20 dex...ouch...waste of ability points) but let's assume that you could get your strength up to 30 pretty easily. Something like this:

16 base
5 level ups
2 tome
6 item
2 exceptional (shroud item)
---------------------------
31 strength.

Dresek has 18 strength (10 base + 2 tome + 6 item). That's a difference of 12 points for a damage difference of 6 per hit. That alone is a pretty big damage advantage. However, when you add in the crit damage from, say, dual khopeshes, it's a massive damage increase...with zero sacrifice in SA damage.

Additionally, your damage against SA-immune mobs (undead, elementals, constructs) will be far better than a dex-based rogue.

Sure, you'll give up some survivability and AC but from a damage standpoint, strength-based rogues are top of the heap.

[VKhaun]

Haven't read other replies, but wanted to throw in my 2¢.
True neutral 32pt dex-based elf.
Something like... 16str/18dex/14con/10int/8wis/8cha

Your first post focus's on halfling and kopesh... but don't like that it costs a feat and the strength reduction. The rapier weapon type is also 15% crit rate, but is finessable for a dex build and requires no feat. The elf race has a dex bonus and dex enhancements, but no strength penalty (-2 con instead), and gets special enhancement bonuses with rapiers.

Make sure you're doing UMD at full every level. Lv1 be a rogue and even on a ranger/monk level up, the skill will only go up by .5, but you can raise it by .5 -TWO TIMES- and still get +1 each level. Do this.



EDIT--
I'd also like to say that the difference from str or dex based seems exaggerated in your mind.
You're listening to the really hardcore people, too much and need to chill out.
The only thing changing is where your five level-up points go.
3 damage vs 3ac and 3 reflex save. That's it.
That's all the difference 5pts makes shifting from strength to dex.

That's after rounding UP 5pts, too. Assuming all your other bonuses are an odd number. Still not even that much until the very day you turn lv20. ALL the rest is assumed in your stat and equipment choice, that you will for whatever reason gimp your dex or strength. Don't gimp your strength even if you go dex based. Don't gimp your dex even if you go str based. Hell, you could drop them all in wisdom or charisma just to give the power gamers a big middle finger, and still do fine on your rogue.

With 32pt builds you can do both.
Do a human. Go 16str/17dex/14con/11int.
+3str from level ups, +2dex from level ups.
+1str/+1dex human feats.
+2int tome gives you combat expertise later.
Use heavy picks, don't take weapon finesse.
You cert for all the TWF feats.

Biggest crits, no penalties, extra feat, no feats needed.


Not ordering you or really even suggesting that, but think about it as a base.
What are you giving up vs the middle-ground spec, and what are you really getting for it?

If you're having trouble still, build a rogue without level-ups at all.
Then you can add them at the very end of your build thought process.

[purple_paladin]

Thanks again for the reply's guys.

So I noticed my main is 11 and still only at about 850 favor so i think it'd be quite a bit of grinding for me to get 32point build so until I get around to it I figured I would keep playing Impact's build. I got to lvl 5 last night and must say he is pretty awesome now that i got him some +3armor and a +3shield i have 28ac and am starting to become super powerful in the waterworks.

Since i know i enjoy creating new characters so much Ill just put off the halfling superman build for a while.

[jddonkeykong]

what server are you on? im currently working on some favor and will never turn away company!
besides it makes it easier to open on elite by switching to main and back when you have someone with you for the ride on the favor train.