Please, ask questions!

[Comfortably]

Example scenario~ You join a pug elite Hound, you don't know the quest very well, the group leader gives out jobs (ie, kill team, chew toy etc...) and you just say okay. Now if you really don't know what's going on, please ask questions! No one is going to make fun of you, no one wants to fail because someone failed to understand the concept of the quest. So please, next time your in a quest and your not sure how it's done, ask questions!!!!

[HeavenlyCloud]

Did you fail the hound or succeeded anyway?

[Comfortably]

Did you fail the hound or succeeded anyway?

It was a fail, as result of someone not really understanding what they were supposed to be doing, hence ask questions!


EDIT: I'm not trying to be a prick as usual, I really would like it if people who don't know the quest just asked a question or two; to fully grasp the concept of the quest. I don't mind teaching new players a quest, infact I rather enjoy it, but when people don't listen or don't understand and they don't ask questions, is when I get kinda p!ssy, is that wrong?

[UnderwearModel]

Just cleanup afterwards

[Draccus]

When I hear "Dresek, Kill Team" I usually say "I thought I was firing the laser." To date, no one has laughed...but I'm still tryin'!

And speaking of Hound, what's with the failures lately? I don't run my cleric much (really just a shroud every so often) but have been trying to run Hound for that shield and some other thing that drops there (necklace?). I have failed my last 3 attempts. I think I've done 30ish Hounds on Dresek and haven't failed one.

To be honest, I think some of the failures have been intentional sabotage.

Failure 1: Chew toy said he knew what to do and said he had a solid fog clickie. I kept him healed but he never once tried to use it. Big dog ran around willy-nilly and wiped the party.

Failure 2: Dog broke charm before getting the first message about "showing signs of weakness" No attempts made to recharm or charm others.

Failure 3: First stone attempt apparently "missed." Two dogs charmed. Fourth stone picked up by someone who never admitted it or didn't know it. Two dogs did their best and stayed healed the whole time but both broke and no one tried to get another stone. Xyzzy finally killed me when I was trying to get another stone.

This raid is pretty easy to intentionally mess up...I wonder if that's what's happening. I've seen a lot of unguilded characters in Hounds lately and they're all failing. Hmmm...where's my aluminum foil hat?

[Comfortably]

Just cleanup afterwards

Lets stay on topic, thank you.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Just cleanup afterwards

omg, lol

[Comfortably]

When I hear "Dresek, Kill Team" I usually say "I thought I was firing the laser." To date, no one has laughed...but I'm still tryin'!
haha, I wouldn't laugh too

And speaking of Hound, what's with the failures lately? I don't run my cleric much (really just a shroud every so often) but have been trying to run Hound for that shield and some other thing that drops there (necklace?). I have failed my last 3 attempts. I think I've done 30ish Hounds on Dresek and haven't failed one.
Not sure...it's been awhile for me too and all of a sudden...

To be honest, I think some of the failures have been intentional sabotage.

Failure 1: Chew toy said he knew what to do and said he had a solid fog clickie. I kept him healed but he never once tried to use it. Big dog ran around willy-nilly and wiped the party.
This run was similar, we explained how we wanted him to do it, he said ok and just decided to run at the dog, no solid fog clicky in sight.

Failure 2: Dog broke charm before getting the first message about "showing signs of weakness" No attempts made to recharm or charm others.
[That does sound like intentional.

Failure 3: First stone attempt apparently "missed." Two dogs charmed. Fourth stone picked up by someone who never admitted it or didn't know it. Two dogs did their best and stayed healed the whole time but both broke and no one tried to get another stone. Xyzzy finally killed me when I was trying to get another stone.
Yea, the dog needs to stand still while you charm, if the person with agro is running around like a chicken with it's head cutoff, you'll get a "miss".

This raid is pretty easy to intentionally mess up...I wonder if that's what's happening. I've seen a lot of unguilded characters in Hounds lately and they're all failing. Hmmm...where's my aluminum foil hat?Yea, I give people a chance when I PUG a group, but if someone doesn't listen or decides it's funny to wipe for fun, well that's not cool.

Reading material in lime

[Justicar]

When I hear "Dresek, Kill Team" I usually say "I thought I was firing the laser." To date, no one has laughed...but I'm still tryin'!

And speaking of Hound, what's with the failures lately? I don't run my cleric much (really just a shroud every so often) but have been trying to run Hound for that shield and some other thing that drops there (necklace?). I have failed my last 3 attempts. I think I've done 30ish Hounds on Dresek and haven't failed one.

To be honest, I think some of the failures have been intentional sabotage.

Failure 1: Chew toy said he knew what to do and said he had a solid fog clickie. I kept him healed but he never once tried to use it. Big dog ran around willy-nilly and wiped the party.

Failure 2: Dog broke charm before getting the first message about "showing signs of weakness" No attempts made to recharm or charm others.

Failure 3: First stone attempt apparently "missed." Two dogs charmed. Fourth stone picked up by someone who never admitted it or didn't know it. Two dogs did their best and stayed healed the whole time but both broke and no one tried to get another stone. Xyzzy finally killed me when I was trying to get another stone.

This raid is pretty easy to intentionally mess up...I wonder if that's what's happening. I've seen a lot of unguilded characters in Hounds lately and they're all failing. Hmmm...where's my aluminum foil hat?

There was a post a week or two ago with some of our more mischievous server members deciding on a static epic fail strike force. I cant find the link, it seems to have been deleted. I dont know if they have actually started with it or not but you may have been hit!

[Wizzly_Bear]

There was a post a week or two ago with some of our more mischievous server members deciding on a static epic fail strike force. I cant find the link, it seems to have been deleted. I dont know if they have actually started with it or not but you may have been hit!

just look for any group lead by Mhykke over on argo....

[Comfortably]

There was a post a week or two ago with some of our more mischievous server members deciding on a static epic fail strike force. I cant find the link, it seems to have been deleted. I dont know if they have actually started with it or not but you may have been hit!

Someone, that was Cold, started it here on these very forums! Of course, it was a huge joke...never really happened.

[smatt]

It's complacency.... It happens when people become over confident that they'e super-uber-duper..... We get lazy, and figure "Man this is an easy raid, we've done it 500 times" Then we start ignoring the fact that 1/2 the party has gimpy "New Toons" in the run, and maybe 3 or 4 are new players who don't know what to do when things don't go exactly right. It's the cascade effect..... The Hound is such that if you do it fast it's really easy to get beyond some mistakes, but as time goes on those mistakes get worse and worse and it gets harder and harder to recover..... All it takes is one or 2 people readin gthe wrong page of the wrong book.... And blooey.... The whole thing goes to messy bird diapers...

[Sirea]

It's complacency.... It happens when people become over confident that they'e super-uber-duper..... We get lazy, and figure "Man this is an easy raid, we've done it 500 times" Then we start ignoring the fact that 1/2 the party has gimpy "New Toons" in the run, and maybe 3 or 4 are new players who don't know what to do when things don't go exactly right. It's the cascade effect..... The Hound is such that if you do it fast it's really easy to get beyond some mistakes, but as time goes on those mistakes get worse and worse and it gets harder and harder to recover..... All it takes is one or 2 people readin gthe wrong page of the wrong book.... And blooey.... The whole thing goes to messy bird diapers...

Hate to burst your bubble smatt but we asked several times if anyone was inexperienced with the quest and no one said anything. When it finally came time to hand out assignments all the tanks admitted they haven't done chew toy before. One of them said he had a solid fog clickie, so we explained to him very thoroughly how to target the doorway, cast the fog, then run forward and get the aggro. He ran straight in and I didn't see a solid fog until after the dogs were charmed. Big dog was running amok until we managed to get a dog charmed, and the kill team kept getting mindblasted. On top of it all the bard forgot the quest and two people went LD right after we started. Could be that he didn't totally understand what I was trying to get him to do, if he'd asked me to repeat the instructions I would have been more than happy to oblige.

Perhaps some people are under the impression that they can't admit they haven't done something or aren't quite clear on what to do because they think we'll mock them and call them a noob if they as questions. I'd rather explain something 3 times and succeed then get an "OK" after telling them once and have everything go wrong. Please don't be afraid to ask questions and better your knowledge of a quest and become a better player as a result!

[Sirea]

Just to add onto my previous post, if we ask if anyone's new and no one says anything, sorry if we assume people know what to do, and get annoyed when things go to hell in a hand basket. Are we wrong to be annoyed because someone didn't have the cahones to speak up and admit they're not familiar with the finer points of a quest?

I'm always asking questions, I probably come up with some pretty noobish ones once in a while. But I'd rather ask and be a better player than keep my mouth shut and not grow as a player, and keep making the same mistakes. Likewise, I'm the type of person who appreciates when someone can calmly tell me "well, here's what you did wrong" and help me become stronger. I don't pretend to know every single thing this game has to offer.

[smatt]

Hate to burst your bubble smatt but we asked several times if anyone was inexperienced with the quest and no one said anything. When it finally came time to hand out assignments all the tanks admitted they haven't done chew toy before. One of them said he had a solid fog clickie, so we explained to him very thoroughly how to target the doorway, cast the fog, then run forward and get the aggro. He ran straight in and I didn't see a solid fog until after the dogs were charmed. Big dog was running amok until we managed to get a dog charmed, and the kill team kept getting mindblasted. On top of it all the bard forgot the quest and two people went LD right after we started. Could be that he didn't totally understand what I was trying to get him to do, if he'd asked me to repeat the instructions I would have been more than happy to oblige.

Perhaps some people are under the impression that they can't admit they haven't done something or aren't quite clear on what to do because they think we'll mock them and call them a noob if they as questions. I'd rather explain something 3 times and succeed then get an "OK" after telling them once and have everything go wrong. Please don't be afraid to ask questions and better your knowledge of a quest and become a better player as a result!

Hey no bubble here.... It failed to form at birth ..... I was being flippant and not pointing at or critisizing anybody, this stuff is happening a lot lately to lots of groups.

I was just relating what's been happening a lot lately not only in runs I've done, but I've been hearing the same type of problems from many others. I think also at this point there are a lot of the very casual players that are venturing into the Sub etc as well. It sounds like you had a few of "Those" in your group.... Ones that no matter what you do, how many times and how carefully you explain it, it goes whoossssshhhhh.... Or maybe they have the same molta dealer as the peeps in the Turbine office And yes many times people do get shy and don't speak up, some of that has to do with the non-helpful people that chastise them, call them noobs in a mean way not a joking way, kick them from group etc. Some has to do with just plain shyness......

I think also many of the old timers we all played with, the experienced peeps we all ran with, the ones who you knew could handle themselves, you pretty much knew what thye were going to do automatically have gone away for some mysterious reason

I'm going to need a lot of patience in the coming months I think.....

[Fluffy_the_Goth]

Strike Force Epic Fail Strikes!

What happens when people ask questions?

"Hey how do I fire the laser?"
"THIS IS THE EFFING SHROUD YOU ARTARD THERE IS NO LASER"
"Oh..."
You have been removed from the group.

Or!

"Hey, isn't this quest in House J? I'll get some extended buffs first"
"Uhm, no it's in the marketplace"
"When did they move tempestspine to the marketplace?"
"The LFM said hound"
"I thought it meant we are hounding tempest spine..."
You have been removed from the group.

You jerks are just trying to trick me into asking questions so you can boot me again!

[wamjratl1]

Just to chime in here:

The last several Hounds I've been in , some of which were with Comf et al, we suceeded but had some narrow misses. A couple of things I've noticed from the perspective of a kill team member: More than once, someone tries to, and sometimes succeeds at, killing a dog right off the bat. Even though the whole party is screaming and typing "STOP ATTACKING THE DOG!" This is clearly either a new person who doesn't understand what we're doing, intentional griefing, or someone who's trying to do the two-dog method, even though the leader made it clear we're doing three dogs.

I've also seen a couple of things happen with the stones. Either the designated stone-grabber (usually the bard) does not keep up with kill team to grab stones or somone other than the designee grabs a stone and runs off, leaving the designee going "where's the stone?" and leaving the kill team undermanned (which isn't a huge deal usually but still...)

So yeah, if you're new to the raid, just ask questions BEFORE the final haste and go. Or if you aren't new to the raid, be sure you are clear on what method the group is using as there are variations depending on party make-up and difficulty level. The group you are in may do it a bit differently than you've done it and you may have a different role than you've had before.

I used to make fun of my old guild leader for the sermon he would give before each Hound raid but with what I've seen going on lately, it makes sense.

[Logicman69]

I feel lucky and gratefull that my first Hound was with DDO Korea. Talk about direct, to the point, and easy!

As a professional pugger, I make sure to always several questions before running a new quest. I always ask what the party expects from me, if there are any special spells I need to load up before the quest, and if there are any tricky spots in the quest. I also make sure to PM the party leader BEFORE clicking the join button to inform him that I'm new to the quest. Sometimes I'll get a responce like "Sorry, but we are looking to do this quick", to wich I would wish them luck and move on. More often than not, most group leaders on this server are more than willing to help a new person along in a quest.

[wamjratl1]

More often than not, most group leaders on this server are more than willing to help a new person along in a quest.

I have found this to be true also.

[kamimitsu]

I've been on three Hounds recently where the big girl had some very strange aggro. In all three cases, the chew-toy got his solid fogs up as planned, got into position, and turtled up. There was no other CC or anything else happening in the middle (I was standing in a corridor on the opposite corner of the center junction, or posted up in east waiting for renders). Out of nowhere, Big Dog becomes completely disinterested in the chewtoy and runs off at another character. Twice the new target party member was the cleric, and once it was me, on my wiz (I was posted there to watch for that very thing, as it had reportedly happened twice before). I can be certain that, at least in one case, there was no other CC or anything happening in the center as I made a point to watch very carefully. She just decided she didn't like the taste of the chew-toy.

I've been trying to figure it out what caused it, or if it was just a glitch. But since it's happened three times now, I'm starting to wonder if there is an aggro reset mechanism or something built into her AI. Twice it cause a fail, and once lead the the most epic recovery I've been a part of.