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  1. #1
    Founder Jackal912's Avatar
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Need suggestions with build

    Okay, so I recently rejoined DDO after a long hiatus. This sorcerer in question was made months/a yearish ago as a result, and was sort of made on-the-fly without any real planning. He was left at 8, and I've gotten him to 11 in the meantime, and have swapped a few spells, and realized that investing so many skill points in Haggle was a terrible idea. All in all though, I've been pretty happy with him. However, as I gained the Cone of Cold spell, I'm beginning to notice.. /everything/ is saving almost always vs my Reflex saves - Fireball was working fine at 8-9ish, but as I hit 10-11 and head to gianthold and similarly leveled missions, I can fire a cone of cold at a massive group of enemies and have them all, or all but 1-2, make the save. This leaves me with some pretty massively reduced damage, and I'm finding myself relying increasingly on searing rays, or even magic missile for the fire-immune, instead of cone of cold. Is there anything I'm doing wrong with this character? Here's the build.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Atrophied 
    Level 12 Lawful Good Warforged Male
    (12 Sorcerer) 
    Hit Points: 104
    Spell Points: 1131 
    BAB: 6\6\11
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 4
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Stats          Modified Stats
    Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 12)
    Strength             10                    10
    Dexterity            10                    10
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                6                     6
    Charisma             16                    22
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 12)
    Balance               0                     1.5
    Bluff                 3                     6
    Concentration         7                    18
    Diplomacy             3                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                5                    12
    Heal                 -2                    -2
    Hide                  0                     0
    Intimidate            3                     6
    Jump                  0                     0
    Listen               -2                    -2
    Move Silently         0                     0
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     0
    Search                0                     0
    Spot                 -2                    -2
    Swim                  0                     0
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Spell (1): Burning Hands
    Spell (1): Repair Light Damage
    
    
    Level 2 (Sorcerer)
    Spell (1): Nightshield
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    Spell (1): Charm Person
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Spell (2): Scorching Ray
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    Spell (2): Web
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Spell (3): Fireball
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    Spell (2): Repair Moderate Damage
    Spell (3): Displacement
    
    
    Level 8 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Spell (4): Wall of Fire
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Spell (2): Resist Energy
    Spell (3): Haste
    Spell (4): Repair Critical Damage
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    Spell (5): Cloudkill
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    Spell (3): Halt Undead
    Spell (4): Solid Fog
    Spell (5): Cone of Cold
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery II
    Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    Spell (6): Disintegrate
    EDIT: Sorry, spell list didn't export properly, and I hit 12, got spell focus : evoc, and used a Siberys shard to change imp mental toughness to Maximize.
    Last edited by Jackal912; 06-23-2009 at 02:09 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    No outright mistakes.

    You could actually min max a bit more. there is no reason for you to have 10 str or 10 dex or 10 int on this character. You aren't doing anything with those stats on this build. You can channel that into maximizing charisma or bumping up your constitution. Or if you like fighting at lower levels you could bump str to 14 dropping dex and int.

    Mental toughness and improved mental toughness are probably a bit wasted. Sorcerers generally aren't hurting for SP. I'd at least drop the improved feat. To handle your saving throw problem, spell focus evocation and heighten spell could help. At higher levels you would also want maximize and likely quicken spell.

    Improved empower 3 may not be all that effective for the points it costs.
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  3. #3
    Community Member spifflove's Avatar
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    Default

    You could play a wizard wf or you could pt points into str, grab the greatax feat, and heighten, both spell pen feats, and both spell focus feats, and extend, maximize.

  4. #4
    Community Member VKhaun's Avatar
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    All of your elemental attack save DC's are going to be reflex except for disintegrate. Some enemies will always be nearly immune, and some may actually BE immune if they have evasion and good reflex saves. Elemental attacks are a tool, not a class specialty. Your options to improve elemental nuking are going to get less and less noticeable, and your enemies will more and more be resistant to it. They usually say not to do MT because they expect you to have heighten and spell penetration for using other spell types against enemies that save or are resistant to elemental attacks.

    If you've got one feat swap, I'd actually say switch empower for maximize for a quick boost. Empower is very inefficient on spell points. 15, for 50%, means that meta magic doesn't even begin to just barely break even with regular casting until lv5 spells. It's contradictive to have nothing but empower and MT+IMT. Maximize is more efficient to actually increase what you can put out before running out of ammo, and is better at what both are for. Converting SP's to damage faster.

    What's your spell list right now?
    Last edited by VKhaun; 06-22-2009 at 06:47 PM.

  5. #5
    Founder Jackal912's Avatar
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    Default

    The feat builder is showing my current spells - not the original order I got them in. I don't even remember that, any more.
    Edit : Er, wow. I'm stupid - somehow the spell list didn't get exported properly

    I have..

    Repair Light Wounds, Magic Missile, Charm Person, Nightshield
    Repair Moderate Wounds, Scorching Ray, Web, Resist Energy
    Fireball, Displacement, Halt Undead, Haste
    Firewall, Solid Fog, Repair Critical
    Cloudkill, Cone of Cold
    Disintegrate
    Last edited by Jackal912; 06-23-2009 at 02:03 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Kalundan's Avatar
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    I have a few capped Sorcerers including a WF, I'd recommend the following...

    Feats:
    1st Max
    3th Emp
    6th Ext
    9th Hgtn
    12th Force of Personality (33 will save is nice/I don't enjoy being greater commanded - milage will vary you may want Greater Spell Pen)
    15th Spell Pen

    I would definitely drop evocation focus. Heighten will more than compensate for any losses you might see. You need heighten if you want your webs and other spells with saves to land. With Heighten spells are raised to the highest spell level your character can cast, making them more difficult to resist.

    You can drop fireball whenever possible and pick up something useful like rage in it's place. Your primary damage is going to come from Firewall; your alternative fire attack will be scorching ray, which has no save and really nukes down anything weak to fire.

    CoC is situational and without heighten will be about half useless for almost anything with a decent reflex save. Once heightened you can nuke down almost anything with it, again I like small passages and webbed doors in combination with this spell. Polar ray will fill the gap for an expensive no save cold attack ray.

    The most reliable way to work DPS in GH and maximize your SP usage and DPS output is to FW Web a door or small passage way and have your team fight in it. By this level I always leave on all of my metamagic feats and began casting less but more efficiently. Extend is toggled the most to not waste SP on buffs or in places like Madstone where you don't need an extended firewall/web just a regular will do; as your group tends to move often. However max/emp/heighten are never turned off by this stage for my sorcerers.

    I would recommend picking up PK temporarily until you are able to get Finger of Death. PK is great to use casters/mephits/fire ele's or ranged mobs that might not find their way into your firewall like most melee mobs tend too. Some people swear by PK and Finger both, but on all of my sorcerers I tend to drop it as soon as FoD becomes available and opt for enervate for my 4th lvl spot. The double save can be irritating, but the value of an instant kill spell is high. Personally I would have FW/Enervate/PK as my fourths by this lvl. You'll be able to take on almost anything in GH with those three spells. Swap CK for Ball Lightning and you'll be soloing the boss of Madstone while the melee's overbuff; rotating Ball and Disin for the quick kill.

    In the end I think my spell list at your level would look something like this...

    Jump, Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeebling, Nightshield
    Ooze Puppet/Knock, Scorching Ray, Web, Resist Energy
    Rage, Displacement, Suggestion, Haste
    Firewall, Enervate, PK
    Ball Lightning, Cone of Cold
    Disintegrate

    You can pick up Repair Critical on your last 4th slot spell and stop there with repair spells or you can opt to go all the way to reconstruct; which I don't find necessary. Even end game healing a WF tank in VoD I do just fine with scrolls and RC. Soloing or grouping the repair crit spell is usually more than enough to get the job done for about 150-160 heal (My WF Sorc sits at about 350HP buffed) I tend to use scrolls at your level and put everything into my versatility until I get a little slack in a few levels; where I can comfortably afford to fit in a good repair spell.

  7. #7
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigtrent View Post
    You could actually min max a bit more. there is no reason for you to have 10 str or 10 dex or 10 int on this character. You aren't doing anything with those stats on this build. You can channel that into maximizing charisma or bumping up your constitution.
    His Charisma is maxxed. 16 is max for a WF.

    10 int is fine. UMD is an important skill and sorcs only get 2 points per level. He actaully needs a +2 int tome to cap both umd and concentration each level. For now he'd have to only get half ranks in UMD per lvl and keep up concentration.

    10 str is also fine, its nice to have a bit more str to melee in some cases, and carry more gear.

    10 dex probably isnt needed but isnt hurting anything. If he went 8, he could only put con to 17, not that big of a deal.

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