TWF Evasion Pally - Again

[Tharlak]

I have tried both. I eventually preferred my Pally/Rogue and deleted my Pally/Monk when I ran out of space and wanted to try something new.

So, if this is a character you really want to try to gear up and keep around I suggest Pally/Rogue and stats:
15, 15, 13, 11, 8, 15.

Let me know what you think.

This is where I'm ending up.

Will go Rogue splash focusing on UMD

Thanks all for helping me sort this out.

[mzprox]

I had the same dilemma, rogue<->monk, now I'm thinking why dont take both

Final build either:
1 rogue/2 monk/17 pally

or

3 rogue/2 monk/15 pally (I think this is better, not miss much more pally stuff, but gets +1d6 sa, +1 sa attack enh., rog dex enh. and more skills )

Both has lvl 4 spells however its very likely that there will be a nice lvl 18 pally enhancement which these builds would miss.

Suggested stats for a drow:
14/16/10/11/13/16
(I know.. only 10 con.. but every other stat is just more important, i would rather have one more AC than 20 more hp and higher charisma makes lay on hands more stronger, + to improtant skills and will allow divine might III with only a +2 tome)

[baddax]

I feel like rog overall is a better dps option than mnk, mnk is only good if you think you need the feats, and I'm pretty sureyou don't, as I have a 2rog/14 pal, and the onlything I don'thave is ext, and don't really mind, I may get it, or somethign else w/ the new mod. Haste boost and sneak attack and insane umd are better than feats you don't need, imo.

it depends on the feats.
a 10 con will definitely put you on the low side of hp unless you plan on taking toughness. Otherwise I would suggest a 14 con.

[baddax]

I had the same dilemma, rogue<->monk, now I'm thinking why dont take both

Final build either:
1 rogue/2 monk/17 pally

or

3 rogue/2 monk/15 pally (I think this is better, not miss much more pally stuff, but gets +1d6 sa, +1 sa attack enh., rog dex enh. and more skills )

Both has lvl 4 spells however its very likely that there will be a nice lvl 18 pally enhancement which these builds would miss.

Suggested stats for a drow:
14/16/10/11/13/16
(I know.. only 10 con.. but every other stat is just more important, i would rather have one more AC than 20 more hp and higher charisma makes lay on hands more stronger, + to improtant skills and will allow divine might III with only a +2 tome)

This is a bad idea imo as you will miss out on your 3rd tier Pre IMO.

[mzprox]

This is a bad idea imo as you will miss out on your 3rd tier Pre IMO.

It's a trade off. While i dont know what the tier 3 prestige enh. will give, i know that 3 rogue or 2 monk gives much. I wouldnt miss the monk wisdom to AC bonus, extra feats or the rogue sneak attacks, umd/intimadate skills.

[Valezra]

I'd further this statement. UMD and SA dmg>>>>2 feats.

Agreed w/ that Forever dude and Comf. I'd recommend these starting stats though:

Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 11
Int: 9
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

At level 20 you can have:

Str: 30 (16 + 3 Tome +4 Levels + 6 Item +1 Human Enhancement)
Dex: 24 (15 + 2 Tome + 1 Rogue Enhancement + 6 Item)
Con: 20 (11 + 1 Human Enhancement + 2 Tome + 6 Item)
Int: 10 (9 + 1 Tome at level 1... do it now before mod 9 and they are cheap)
Wis: 16 (8 + 6 Item + 2 Tome)
Cha: 28 (16 + 3 Tome + 1 Level + 2 Enhancements + 6 Item)


Justification for recommended stats:

Str - 30 for optimal non-ftr Strength.
Dex - 24 is a sweet spot for Mithril Light Armor Dex bonus.
Con - 20 will be plenty of hitpoints for a DPS paladin.
Int - 10 gets you Max UMD and still put a half point in Balance for every Paladin Level.
Wis: 16 will cast all Paladin spells.
Cha: Base 20 gets you Divine Might IV. 28 gets more Turn Attempts for DM and better saves. (Until you get a +3 tome a +1 tome will net you DM III which is very respectable)

+2 Tomes are easy to get. +3's will be easier to get in Mod 9 but even without them the build is still solid with +1 tomes in those slots.

Feats (not in any specific order):
1- Toughness
3- TWF
6- Khopesh
9- ITWF
12- GTWF
15- Improved Crit: Slashing (Drop this for Extend if you're going to make Min II's)
18- Power Attack

Hope that helps.

Val

[Tharlak]

I’ve played Human Paladin/Rogue’s so here are my suggestions:

If you go down the Human Pally/Rogue route:
Str: 15 +1 Race + 3 level = 19 + 1 Tome = 20
Dex: 15 + 1 Tome +1 level = 17
Con: 13 + 1 Racial = 14 + 10 points from Human Toughness III
Int: 11 + 1 Tome for extra skills which will allow you to have a couple of scattered skills and a very nice UMD score (UMD is based on CHA so yeah- this could allow you to seriously cast Heal scrolls and Raise Deads with little to no fail- kind of nice if you work at it)
or
+2 for Combat Expertise (completely unnecessary, but keeps you within “AC-Relevance” Potential should you ever feel like grinding for it) until a +2 Tome falls in your lap, don’t worry about it.
Wis. 8 +1 Tome +items to cast
Cha 15 + 1 Tome = 16 = instant access to Divine Might I – which is very nice.

I went with the above recommendation (choosing a bit lower wisdom and a 13, slight change from original suggestion). Some of my choices have been based on having access to +1 tomes, but for the LIFE OF ME, I can not get a +2 tome (can't afford to pay for it either). Have a couple of capped chars, but NO +2 tomes other favor rewards and bound +3's from raids.

At any rate...

Only level 6, but enjoying the character. Mostly swinging a greataxe or S&B with khopesh, has good dps and great survivability.

[Thrudh]

It's a trade off. While i dont know what the tier 3 prestige enh. will give, i know that 3 rogue or 2 monk gives much. I wouldnt miss the monk wisdom to AC bonus, extra feats or the rogue sneak attacks, umd/intimadate skills.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...e_9.0_Official

There are 3 different paladin Prestige Enhancements. Here's comparing one of them

12 levels of paladin get you this...

Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Prerequisites: Paladin 12, Paladin Knight of the Chalice I, Paladin Courage of Good II, Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: You are devoted to fighting demons and other evil outsiders, driving them from Eberron forever. Your maximum number of Smites is increased by one, your anti-fear aura is improved, and you have +2 to attack Evil Outsiders and deal 2d6 additional damage with melee and unarmed attacks against them. You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +3 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by Evil Outsiders.
Knight of the Chalice Censure Demons
Benefit: You may expend a turn undead attempt to stun a targetted demon or other Chaotic Evil outsider. A successful Will save DC: 10 + Paladin Level + Charisma Modifier negates this effect. The target gains repeated saves to break free of this effect.

18th level of paladin gets you this

Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Prerequisites: Paladin 18, Paladin Knight of the Chalice II, any Paladin Faith II enhancement
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: You are devoted to fighting demons and other evil outsiders, driving them from Eberron forever. Your maximum number of Smites is increased by one, your anti-fear aura is improved, and you have +4 to attack Evil Outsiders and deal 4d6 additional damage with melee and unarmed attacks against them. You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +4 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by Evil Outsiders.

So, by not going level 18 paladin, you'd lose an extra smite, and a +1 to hit and 2d6 damage and +1 saves against evil outsiders...

2d6 extra damage is pretty sweet.. but you can compare that to what you'd get splashing monk AND rogue and decide which way to go...

[baddax]

It's a trade off. While i dont know what the tier 3 prestige enh. will give, i know that 3 rogue or 2 monk gives much. I wouldnt miss the monk wisdom to AC bonus, extra feats or the rogue sneak attacks, umd/intimadate skills.

i believe they are listed in the release notes smoewhere.

[Tharlak]

My Evasion Pali is just shy of 12th. A bunch of fun to play. I do have a question regarding my 12th level feat. Should it be GTWF or IC Slash.

From another thread Scribbler posted:

Exactly when you have a problem depends on your build.
Ranger: ITWF at lev 6 and GTWF at lev 11, so the problem is limited to levels 5 and 10.
Barb/Paladin: ITWF at lev 6 and GTWF at lev 12, so the problem is at levels 5, 10, and 11.
Fvs/Cleric/Monk: ITWF at lev 9 and GTWF at lev 15, so the problem is levels (5), (6), 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14.

This relates to the combat animation and number of swings. Longer animations without the max number of swings drops your DPS.

What would serve me best at 12th. Take GTWF to optimize the swings for my animation, or take IC Slash (with dual Kopesh) to optimize my per swing damage. My original plan was IC.

[baddax]

IMO improved Crit slash before Gtwf.
I think there is a bigger bang for the buck.

[flubuk73]

I went (or am going) 18pally2rogue on my progue drow focusing on UMD/evasion/twf.

Granted I'm only level 7 but BOY is it a laugh, VERY soloable with 2xRapier(+3)

sorry to sabotage, but my tohit is quite nice (13 or so from memory) should i consider dropping the +3 rapier and perhaps picking up a "pure good" or similar? if not, at which stage does the loss of raw +hit for more dps become viable?

thanks

[baddax]

I went (or am going) 18pally2rogue on my progue drow focusing on UMD/evasion/twf.

Granted I'm only level 7 but BOY is it a laugh, VERY soloable with 2xRapier(+3)

sorry to sabotage, but my tohit is quite nice (13 or so from memory) should i consider dropping the +3 rapier and perhaps picking up a "pure good" or similar? if not, at which stage does the loss of raw +hit for more dps become viable?

thanks

This is not an easy question as you run into monster immunities,DR and such. The simple answer is 1-6 pure good is = 3.5 damage. So i believe a +1 pure good will do the same dps as a +4 weapon (same type).

Where it gets tricky is when you add in DR, immunities and resistances. In which case you have to know which weapon works best on each mob.

[Tharlak]

IMO improved Crit slash before Gtwf.
I think there is a bigger bang for the buck.

Went with IC, it was my original build plan. The GTWF was distracting. But those crits are fun!

Thanks for the feedback.

[baddax]

glad to be of help.