Change items with Dodge Bonus

[redoubt]

Think of how much the cleric saved.

Fine then. Let's assume 95% avoidance!

High AC: 1*50 = 50
Low AC: 19*50 = 950

Result: 950/50 = 19 times more powerful

My point still stands. High AC is overpowered.

what is the cost of having that much more AC?

Does the low AC char have 51 AC and the high AC char have 70? Or does the low ac char have 30ac to the high ac char of 75?

Yes, the difference in damage taken can become astronomical. But the cost of gettting that good AC is also astronomical. AND the difference in DPS is also astronomical.

I also find it interesting that you had to back down from your chosen AC split and go to a more extreeme one to continue the debate. I think you can do better, my friend.

[redoubt]

He and everyone else always do that on the forums. That is why I hate seeing math anywhere on the forms. A better example is this

Monster hits you on a 19. We raise your ac by 1 so it hits you on a 20. How much did this change how much you get hit?

Well 5% less of the attacks are hits so it could be 5% as each # on the d20 is 5%. However 1/2 of the hits are now misses so we could say you get hit 50% less from that 1 ac. Is it 5% or 50%? Well it all depends on which one better servers your point.

Very few on the forum care about weather they are right, just weather or not they can get others to believe they are right.

If you are looking at damage taken you drop from 100 (using the 50 per hit borro0 and I have been using for simple math) to 50 points taken. That's half.

Now, if you get hit on a 2, but have **** AC and we add one you get a zero percent decrease in damage because you still get hit on a 2.

If you go from getting hit on a 2 to getting hit on a 3 (also a 1 point increase) you go from taking 950pts to 900. That is only a 5.3% decrease. Of course we all know (I assume) that DDO is a game of thresholds and diminishing/increasing returns, right?

[Borror0]

Does the low AC char have 51 AC and the high AC char have 70? Or does the low ac char have 30ac to the high ac char of 75?

Either way I think it proves the same point that a wide difference in AC can be problematic.

But the cost of gettting that good AC is also astronomical. AND the difference in DPS is also astronomical.

That's totally irrelevant, if Turbine makes taking worthwhile which, I'll remind you, is the sought goal.

I also find it interesting that you had to back down from your chosen AC split and go to a more extreeme one to continue the debate.

I could have tried to explain to you but it would have been less efficient.

[redoubt]

Either way I think it proves the same point that a wide difference in AC can be problematic.

That's totally irrelevant, if Turbine makes taking worthwhile which, I'll remind you, is the sought goal.

I could have tried to explain to you but it would have been less efficient.

I'll assume you mean "tanking" and I'll ask you your definition of that. And also how tanking makes the cost of AC and the difference in DPS irrelevant. (Thought your definition itself might explain both.)

[Aspenor]

It's only problematic in your mind, but not in reality (or the fantasy game we're playing, either).

[Borror0]

I'll assume you mean "tanking" and I'll ask you your definition of that. And also how tanking makes the cost of AC and the difference in DPS irrelevant. (Thought your definition itself might explain both.)

By tanking I am referring to the concept of holding aggro to reduce the strain on the healing via avoidance and mitigation.

And also how tanking makes the cost of AC and the difference in DPS irrelevant. (Thought your definition itself might explain both.)

Unless your DPS is too low to grab aggro (even with the help of your hate generation tools), low DPS not a problem.

[redoubt]

The following items with dodge bonuses have caused AC to be way to high, and for content to be scaled to this ridiculous AC amount. The result of which has been 90% of the DDO community ignoring AC as they can not get it to a meaningful level. The combination of Icy Rainment+chattering ring wields an extra 7AC that can never truly be replaced. Everyone will benefit from this change in DDO, including those with both of these items as the monsters BaB will be lowered accordingly.

While waiting for your answer Borro0, I decided to read the OP again and had another thought on it.

He says that everyone, including people with Icy and Chattering would benifit. I think people with high AC and low DPS would be hurt by such a change.

The thing that makes up for the low DPS is the ability to stay in the fight longer than anyone else. That extra time allows the high AC character to begin to close the gap on total damage dealt.

Those types of characters will become less useful as "relevant" AC becomes easier to obtain. People can make characters with more dps and relevant AC. The people who worked under the current system would be facing the reroll button... and that always makes me sad. Lol.

[redoubt]

By tanking I am referring to the concept of holding aggro to reduce the strain on the healing via avoidance and mitigation.

Unless your DPS is too low to grab aggro (even with the help of your hate generation tools), low DPS not a problem.

Ah... we've come back to your crusade to improve Sword and Board??? Not that I mind. That style certainly could use some love.

However, where does that leave the high AC non-tank? The character that works the fringes to help the group, that applies effects and stat damage and does so while taking minimal damage?

I am okay with S&B having good AC. Are you okay with a non-tank having good AC?

[TechNoFear]

Some named/raid shields with dodge bonuses (and/or DR) would be a start in S&B love....

[Xionanx]

Did you guys ever stop to think its not the AC bonus's from items and spells thats the problem here? Its the AP system granting stat bonus's and all the stat boosting items.

D&D was never meant to be played with characters reaching STR and DEX scores of 40. The abundance of ways to increase your stats has caused the DEVS to not only increase mob BaB, but thier AC and HP's as well.

Mind you in tabletop IF you started with a 20 in a stat, and put all 5 points from leveling in that stat, and had a +8 Stat Item (which was the max if i recall), and you found a +5 TOME (which is the cap on tomes) you can get your stat to 38 at level 20. This should NOT BE A COMMON ACCOMPLISHMENT!

I personally would be willing to see all AP enhancements that give stats boosts stripped from the game. It would go a long way towards leveling things out a bit.

[Aesop]

Did you guys ever stop to think its not the AC bonus's from items and spells thats the problem here? Its the AP system granting stat bonus's and all the stat boosting items.

D&D was never meant to be played with characters reaching STR and DEX scores of 40. The abundance of ways to increase your stats has caused the DEVS to not only increase mob BaB, but thier AC and HP's as well.

Mind you in tabletop IF you started with a 20 in a stat, and put all 5 points from leveling in that stat, and had a +8 Stat Item (which was the max if i recall), and you found a +5 TOME (which is the cap on tomes) you can get your stat to 38 at level 20. This should NOT BE A COMMON ACCOMPLISHMENT!

I personally would be willing to see all AP enhancements that give stats boosts stripped from the game. It would go a long way towards leveling things out a bit.

Items go to +6 btw

I personally would like to see a revamp of the Enhancement System in total, but I still would want Dodge Bonuses on items removed.

The way I had Stat Enhancements listed was that you still got 2 prechosen Racial Enhancements and a total of 3 from the General Enhancements. These would not be based on Class but upon what you deemed was right for your Character.

Another thing I never liked was the Blood Rage and Madstone Rage. Why should there be a bunch of Stacking rages? Its always felt a little bit like Jumping the Shark. Look now we have another cool way to go crazy, and this one lets yoyu go crazier while you're already crazy... mwuhahahah... What's next Special Double Secret Rage.

There are a lot of things that contribute to the huge imbalances in the system... that doesn't mean that we can fix them all at the same time nor that weshould stop trying

Aesop