The Archon: 12Fighter/6Barb/2Rogue

[Greeka]

So I see you have selected mithral body at level 3, but body feats can only be selected at level 1. You may want to move toughness and mithral around for this build.

[rimble]

So I see you have selected mithral body at level 3, but body feats can only be selected at level 1. You may want to move toughness and mithral around for this build.

It used to be like that, but not any more.

[Monkey_Archer]

That's still misleading here. Vicious applies to everything. The damage figures quoted are already under optimal circumstances: Power Surge, Barb Rage, Madstone, Rage Spell, and Frenzy all on. If we're going to have all those limited short duration things activated, then:

His Base Damage really is 87 + 2d6 Vicious. It always applies to absolutely everything, it should be included. Maybe the Holy doesn't work (doubtful), maybe the Acid or Slicing is ignored, but he's guaranteed this 87 + 2d6 as a minimum...a 'base' if you will...

Likewise, we have the FB have all his optimal boosts on (which are effectively unlimited, and of longer duration in Barb Rages case--and could technically throw in a +5 from Barb Damage boost, but I won't):

His Base Damage is really 83 + 6d6 Vicious (slightly more since he'll likely have a Greataxe).

Not including the Vicious as a base amount of damage is unfairly biased. There's no point excluding it, because there is no situation in which it doesn't apply (and, as I understand, it is applied to ALL Glancing Blows to boot).

Again, you just need to be sure it's broken apart as a separate type of base damage so as not to include it multiplicatively in crits...but that's okay since the claim was something along the lines of 'the most base damage per non-crit'.

But anyways, I won't begrudge anyone using 'base damage' in the way that is referred to here. It's how most people use it I think, and it's not worth devolving this into trying to get everyone to standardize on a single definition...I just find it a little misleading here.

Semantics...

Base damage (only the frst number that is multiplied by crits) The Archon is highest
Guaranteed minimum damage (Base damage + vicious) The FB is highest
Average mimimun dps (including vicious + hasteboost) Archon is highest again.

[Monkey_Archer]

So I see you have selected mithral body at level 3, but body feats can only be selected at level 1. You may want to move toughness and mithral around for this build.

Actually, my build doesnt use these exact feats anymore...

Swapped Mithril body for Quickdraw, and SF:Intim was switched for Cleave.

At lvl 18 I think ill probably pick up stunning blow.

[KKDragonLord]

Archon
Archon

Oh... i get it now... Butterflies.
"Archon is a genus of Palaearctic swallowtail butterflies in the subfamily Parnassiiinae."

[Trillea]

How is it that you have ITWF and GTWF feats but only a 16 base DEX? 14+2 tome = 16, not enough for the feats... Unless I missed something..

[Monkey_Archer]

How is it that you have ITWF and GTWF feats but only a 16 base DEX? 14+2 tome = 16, not enough for the feats... Unless I missed something..

Its ITHF and GTHF

[BlackSteel]

How is it that you have ITWF and GTWF feats but only a 16 base DEX? 14+2 tome = 16, not enough for the feats... Unless I missed something..

^^ lol might want to have another gander at what combat style he's using

[Monkey_Archer]

^^ lol might want to have another gander at what combat style he's using

Well, it is a THF making dps claims... a very rare thing on the forums...

Hopefully that might change

[rimble]

Semantics...

Base damage (only the frst number that is multiplied by crits) The Archon is highest
Guaranteed minimum damage (Base damage + vicious) The FB is highest
Average mimimun dps (including vicious + hasteboost) Archon is highest again.

I guess I just don't see why Base Damage is a relevant metric on its own, the whole damage and crit profile needs to be brought into the equation.

If we're attacking something uncrittable, I think we've determined the FB III Greataxe is higher due to higher Vicious damage (which is also applied to all Glancing Blows)...even if that 'base damage' box on the FB III character sheet is lower (if it is lower I think it's just a point or two, the two seem real close to each other).

And again, if you look at crittable mobs, I think the FB III Greataxe has a much higher crit profile than the Archon Falchion (8 vs 4?). So yeah, that 'base damage' box on the Archon shows a higher number, but up on the actual screen the FB III is doing more damage.

Haste Boost definitely puts the Archon ahead for those times that it is on.

Anyways, I don't mean to be a prick. I really like what you put together here, it has alot of other things aside from damage going for it. I've just taken exception to some minor wording, not a big deal.

does the highest possible damage per non-crit, therefore doing higher dps vs crit immune (or high fortification) targets then almost any other build.

So I guess the first part of that just seems really wrong to me, and I suppose I can't argue with the second part because of the 'almost any other build' clause...hehe.

[BlackSteel]

So I guess the first part of that just seems really wrong to me, and I suppose I can't argue with the second part because of the 'almost any other build' clause...hehe.

the more damage, and base damage, is mostly referring to the +damage modifier you see when you open up your inventory sheet. of which this build is going to have about +4 more than an equally specced/equiped barbarian. (the kensai offers +9 straight damage the barbarian compensates for by having 1 more Power attack and 4 more STR, equating to 5 damage) Either build could focus on falchion or greataxe, so I'll leave the difference in damage dice there alone.

So the archon has a slightly higher base damage, but on a non boosted swing does less damage than the barbarian who gets 4 extra dice. The barbarian also has a higher critical power. But what makes the archon really shine is the haste boost.

[maddmatt70]

Ducks. Have you calculated what the dps of this build will be after 7 minutes of not using a shrine? Heard a rumor that the current version of the new raid on beta does not have a shrine in it. Ducks Again. What about 20 minutes? Ducks a third time. Could not help but notice that some people do not use a shrine in the Shroud because its faster to not use a shrine and that there are no shrines in VOD or the Hound raids.

[Monkey_Archer]

Ducks. Have you calculated what the dps of this build will be after 7 minutes of not using a shrine? Heard a rumor that the current version of the new raid on beta does not have a shrine in it. Ducks Again. What about 20 minutes? Ducks a third time. Could not help but notice that some people do not use a shrine in the Shroud because its faster to not use a shrine and that there are no shrines in VOD or the Hound raids.

I have no doubt that FBs have the highest long term dps (10+ minutes of non-stop combat)....Of course 10 minutes also equals 5520 self damage from vicious for a THF...
Im sure rangers have the highest dps if you plan on playing for an hour without a shrine too

[ZombieTruck]

Sorry to bump an old topic but I really want to try this build.

Anyone have a 28pt version with enhancements listed?

[ZombieTruck]

Please help!! I love this build and want to have sex with it. Help me!

[ghettoGenius]

I'm sorry. This build is too much for you. You need to learn how to walk before you can run my friend.

[MichaelBerea]

With a 32 point Archon ability points seem very tight. I ended up going 18 Str / 14 Dex / 16 Con / 12 Int / 6 Cha to get 23 Balance, 21 UMD, 13 Jump and almost zero intimidate.

Is there some special reason the build in the Original Post is not maximizing the Balance skill?



If you really want to make a 28 point version you might go 18 str, 10 dex, 16 con, 12 int, 6 wis, 6 cha. You could drop int to increase dex and so improve your chances running through traps and aoe.

For enhancements you might start with a WF Monster. Replace ranger enhancements with WF Barbarian.

[arminius]

I was planning on trying this build. Is it still considered currently viable?

I was also thrown a bit by the vagueness of the skill point distribution. It basically says "throw some skill points into rogue stuff."

Is this intended to be a build that does rogue stuff, like traps, etc? Or are the rogue levels only there for opening UMD, extra skill points, backstab (? I don't know rogues that well and don't know if that is a stupid assumption), and evasion?

_

[Tiggyr]

Picking up on this build a little late - started off as 6 fighter but have just picked up 2 barb and, while not rage-a-rific yet I'm still generating very VERY nice DPS .
2 rog will give UMD + more importantly evade...
miss out on captone alacrity bu the fighter haste boost will really demolish anything anyway...

[KolbyLMD]

How would this build play out as a TWF Elf Scimitar user?