The Archon: 12Fighter/6Barb/2Rogue

[Monkey_Archer]

Since this build is still being linked by others i thought i'd update it...
New Archon build located here

[maddmatt70]

Kudos to the creativity for trying something different, but I prefer the 12 fighter 8 barbarian more. The basic reason is extend rage 3 at level 8 barbarian. Evasion is useful but by no means essential for a high hit point character like this. Since this is a thf the 2 levels of rogue are less sexy with SA being applied less times. If this were a 12 fighter 6 barbarian 2 rogue twf I would be more on the fence.

[Monkey_Archer]

Kudos to the creativity for trying something different, but I prefer the 12 fighter 8 barbarian more. The basic reason is extend rage 3 at level 8 barbarian. Evasion is useful but by no means essential for a high hit point character like this. Since this is a thf the 2 levels of rogue are less sexy with SA being applied less times. If this were a 12 fighter 6 barbarian 2 rogue twf I would be more on the fence.

I couldnt resist going THF with the high strength and power attack.... what can i say, im a twich fan...
Im sure a 15dex,8cha TWF version would work just as well though.

I have another 8barb multiclass, so i do agree giving up extend rage 3 was tough..

[drsmooth]

I agree with Madmatt though, if going 2 rogue levels I would go with TWF. Would dual-wielding 2 high crit. range bodyfeeder weapons be able to counter the self-damage from the Frenzy vicious effect?

[Monkey_Archer]

I agree with Madmatt though, if going 2 rogue levels I would go with TWF. Would dual-wielding 2 high crit. range bodyfeeder weapons be able to counter the self-damage from the Frenzy vicious effect?

hmm... 30% chance of 15 hp = 4.5 hp gain per hit -3.5 vicious damage

Id say yes

[drsmooth]

I love when I don't have to do math

[Monkey_Archer]

30% chance of 15 hp = 4.5 - 2 vicious damage

sorry for the confusion...

[Monkey_Archer]

As i has come to my attention that Falchion and greatsword attack speeds are now going to be equal with greataxes (noted here), i ran the dps numbers for this build and now belive it is the highest possible dps THF build there is. (unless some1 else proves otherwise)

Archon with Falchion. 58 strength (18 base +5 levels +3 fighter +4 tome +6 item +8 powersurge +6 rage +2 frenzy +2 rage +4 madstone)

7	Base Weapon Damage
5	Weapon modifier
36	Strength modifier
20	Power Attack
4	Weapon Specialization
1	Weapon Mastery
4	Kensai Damage
9	Bard Songs
1	Prayer
---
87	Base Damage

7	Vicious
7	Holy
2.5 	Slicing
3.5	Acid
---
20	Effects

16.05	Glancing blows 0.3(87+20) / 2
3.5 	Vicious /2
1.3 	Effects 20% * 13 /2
---
20.85 	Average Glancing blow per hit

202	Crit (87 Base + 14 Seeker) * 2

5.5	Acid Burst
5.5 	Acid Blast	
---	
11	Total  Crit Effects

14	Total On 20 Effects

------------------------------------------------

87	Base Damage
20	Effects
14.5	Sneak attack
----
121.5	Average Hit

202	Base Damage
20	Effects
14.5	Sneak attack
11	Crit Effects
-----
247.5 	Average Crit


-----------------------------------------------------

13 * 121.5 = 1579.5 Hit damage
6 * 247.5 + 14 = 1499 Crit damage
19 * 20.85 = 396.15

(1579.5 + 1499 + 396.15) / 20 = 173.7325 Average damage

173.7325 * 138 /60 = 399.58 @ twictch attack speed
173.7325 * 179 /60 = 518.3 @ twitch speed with hasteboost 4
173.7325 * 166 /60 = 460.39 @ twitch speed with 15% overall gain from hasteboost

[EinarMal]

Nice build I like it!

[EinarMal]

I am trying to figure out why this build is coming out higher (significantly) compared to the Colossus build, it seems like they should be much closer against single targets in your shroud comparison.

Is it just THF vs. TWF, this seems odd to me as I certainly would think TWF would be higher against one target? The small amount of sneak damage? It is kinda weird. Should Colossus also use a Falchion instead, is that the DPS difference?

[BlackSteel]

you'd gain more straight base damage with a 6 ranger splash instead of barbarian

12 fighter / 5 or 6 ranger (6th lvl would only be for increased duration on rams mights) / 2 or 3 barbarian levels

down side would be the loss of the viscous damage. bright side is that you wouldnt have to pick up cleave.

i have a 11 barb /5 ranger on live that is THF. He does a good deal more base damage than my pure barbarian. (I've been able to hit in the mid 90s base damage with the boost, and if I ever get around to finish equiping him, his max base would be above 100 a swing IN MOD 8) I do expect that to change tho with the introduction of FB and the capstone. Since this guy will be stuck with far less STR and w/o the other perks of the PrE. Additionally, the 12 fighter is far more appealing now, since the STR scores will be pretty equal between a 12 fighter and 12 barbarian.

downgrading from 6 -> 3 barbarian. Loss of 3 STR and 1 rank of PA => net loss of ~4 damage

picking up 5 ranger -> gain 2 STR + 2 damage and +6 vs 2 FE => gain of 9.5

granted you would also lose some sneak dice and evasion, but to be reasonable, unless you're partying with an intimitank, the sneak attack isnt going to add much except to help steal kills when you join the combat late.

[Thanimal]

What a cool build! I'm surprised this hasn't garnered a little more "buzz." If I didn't have the twitch skills of an old turtle, I'd probably build one of these!

Btw, will some other people post some worthwhile stuff, please!! This is like the 4th time I've tried to give M_A more rep and been blocked by the "you're not easy enough with your rep" clause. (Fairly surprised the word I had in place of "easy" originally is banned. Amusingly conservative word censorship on this forum given the stuff that goes on here.)

[KKDragonLord]

Why name it archon? aren't those a kind of celestial? there's no divine relation to the classes on this build.

[EinarMal]

you'd gain more straight base damage with a 6 ranger splash instead of barbarian

12 fighter / 5 or 6 ranger (6th lvl would only be for increased duration on rams mights) / 2 or 3 barbarian levels

down side would be the loss of the viscous damage. bright side is that you wouldnt have to pick up cleave.

The other thing you have to consider though is how often can you rage and how long do they last. The 12/8 Fighter/Barbarian gives you the ability to rage constantly through most quests, if you drop down to 12/6/2 like M_A then maybe there are sometimes you cannot stay raged. With your split of 12 Fighter/Ranger 5/Barb 3 you are really cutting down the duration and number of rages to the point of really only being for "boss" fights.

I believe Impaqt posted a "monster" variant build that has Fighter 12/Ranger 6/Barbarian 2 split, but it would play a lot different than a 12/8 build that would be raging near all the time.

[Monkey_Archer]

downgrading from 6 -> 3 barbarian. Loss of 3 STR and 1 rank of PA => net loss of ~4 damage

picking up 5 ranger -> gain 2 STR + 2 damage and +6 vs 2 FE => gain of 9.5

Barb 3 would loose 3 str, 1 PA, 2 Frenzy str, 7 vicious => net loss of 4-6 base + 7 vicious
Total: 11-13 damage vs the ranger's 9-10

Of course the ranger doesnt kill himself to do it though..

[Monkey_Archer]

I am trying to figure out why this build is coming out higher (significantly) compared to the Colossus build, it seems like they should be much closer against single targets in your shroud comparison.

Is it just THF vs. TWF, this seems odd to me as I certainly would think TWF would be higher against one target? The small amount of sneak damage? It is kinda weird. Should Colossus also use a Falchion instead, is that the DPS difference?

In trash dps with 0% fort the colossus is pretty close to the archon... A dual wielding archon would probably be above both only because of sneak attacks.

THF does well on this build becuase of the high strength and powerattack naturally benefit THF more then TWF.

[Duratan99]

Why name it archon? aren't those a kind of celestial? there's no divine relation to the classes on this build.

The starcraft MOB?

[Monkey_Archer]

Why name it archon? aren't those a kind of celestial? there's no divine relation to the classes on this build.

Archon
Archon

"Ruler". Refers to the creators and governing forces in the material world. The Demiurge and his angels.

[BlackSteel]

The other thing you have to consider though is how often can you rage and how long do they last. The 12/8 Fighter/Barbarian gives you the ability to rage constantly through most quests, if you drop down to 12/6/2 like M_A then maybe there are sometimes you cannot stay raged. With your split of 12 Fighter/Ranger 5/Barb 3 you are really cutting down the duration and number of rages to the point of really only being for "boss" fights.

I believe Impaqt posted a "monster" variant build that has Fighter 12/Ranger 6/Barbarian 2 split, but it would play a lot different than a 12/8 build that would be raging near all the time.

aye, the barbarian levels are there more for the fast movement and PA enhancements than for the STR at such a low level splash. the rage is 5-6 minutes of boss fighting. Ranger still offers a nearly equivalent bonus to damage for THF even with an 8 level investment (even if its only good agaisnt 2 mob types) a stronger advantage comes with the viscious damage with frenzy.

[Monkey_Archer]

The starcraft MOB?

Yes, those were also terribly effective when used correctly on the right targets