VIP Downgrade to Free F.A.Q.

[TommyBoy]

Greetings! This post answers many of the questions we have received from players about what happens if they downgrade from a VIP (subscriber) account to a Free account.

Q. What happens if I've already unlocked Drow?
A. If you've unlocked Drow as a VIP, you'll still have access to your Drow character and can continue to create new Drow, as long as you have a free slot.

Q. What happens to my Warforged characters?
A. If you downgrade to a Free account, you must purchase the Warforged race in the DDO store to play any existing Warforged characters.

Q. What if I have a Monk character?
A. If you downgrade to a Free account, you must purchase the Monk class in the DDO store to play any existing Monk characters.

Q. What about the limits on chat, mail, auctions, and gold storage?
A. As a former VIP, you won't be subject to the same limitations that a new, Free player has.

Q. What happens to my characters?
A. Your characters are never deleted by Turbine! As a VIP who downgraded to a Free player, you'll have four character slots. When you enter the game as a Free player you'll be asked which characters you wish to unlock for these slots. If you'd like to unlock an additional character, you must purchase a slot for it. However, when you purchase this slot you'll also be given the option to exchange the characters in any previously unlocked slots with any of your locked characters.

Q. What about the Turbine Points I have banked? I got them every month and have some left over.
A. Keep them. They're yours!

Q. What happens to the things I've unlocked through the Favor system?
A. Nothing happens; you'll still have them!

Q. What about items in my shared bank slot?
A. If you downgrade to a Free account, the items will go to a "withdraw only" status. You can remove them, but you cannot place any items back in unless you purchase the shared bank slot from the DDO Store.

Q. What if I decide to go back to VIP status? Do I get a credit for the things I've purchased?
A. We're sorry, but there are no refunds or credits for Free players who decide to become VIPS, so choose your path carefully before downgrading! If you’ve purchased any additional character slots above the 10 you get as a VIP, you will still have access to those slots.

Q. What happens to items I purchase if I go back and forth between Free and VIP?
A. Anything you've purchased as a Free player will still be yours if you upgrade to VIP and then back to Free.

Q. If I downgrade, what content will I still have access to?
A. You'll be able to access any content a Free player can access. Additional content will need to be purchased in the DDO Store before you can access it, even if you could access it when you were a VIP.

maybe I'm stupid so maybe one of the turbine people will explain this to me. DDO has been around longer then LOTRO? If you pre-ordered LOTRO you got the option to pay $200 for lifetime access correct? I have been around since Pre-order so I have spent roughly $675. $430 more then anyone who bought a $200 lifetime from lotro. Now your telling me that if I wish to play with the characters that I currently have and have basicly purchased with $430 that I would need to spend even more? So basically your saying F U to your current player base. Yes I know I still get the option to pay like I am currently, but why should I have to play for things I have obviously payed for when new people can pay far less then I have for the samething?

[Leovor]

maybe I'm stupid so maybe one of the turbine people will explain this to me. DDO has been around longer then LOTRO? If you pre-ordered LOTRO you got the option to pay $200 for lifetime access correct? I have been around since Pre-order so I have spent roughly $675. $430 more then anyone who bought a $200 lifetime from lotro. Now your telling me that if I wish to play with the characters that I currently have and have basicly purchased with $430 that I would need to spend even more? So basically your saying F U to your current player base. Yes I know I still get the option to pay like I am currently, but why should I have to play for things I have obviously payed for when new people can pay far less then I have for the samething?

And what are you proposing? That Turbine should let you play for free now, just because you have been suscribed for 3 years?
When you pay for a Lifetime Sub (Be it like the one LOTRO has or this F2P model where you basically can buy for life all game features) you are making decision....I will pay in advance the equivalent for X months of play...if I end up playing less its my loss if i play more im actually saving money plus the commodity of never have to worry about monthly fees. You have been paying all these years for exactly what Turbine offered to you, now the business model will change and there will be the option of keep paying like you do or go F2P and buy everything for life and good bye monthly fees. Heck i paid monthly for lotro for about 18 months before i finally could pay a lifer sub...did I complain about it? no I paid each month to play for 18 months, then i paid to be able to play forever as long as the game is in service. Imagine that LOTRO didnt have a Lifer sub, but hey implemented right now? Do you really think old players have the right to complain about it? they paid for what they got, now they have a new payment option that may or not may end up saving money. Imagine WoW having a lifetime sub at this stage? Would old players have a right to be mad? Imagine DDO never went F2P they just reduced the monthly fee to 9.99 from now on. Would you complain that you paid 15 bucks a month all these years and new players just have to play 9.99? Would you have the right to demand a refund from a video game console manufacturer because you bought the console at a price and later they dropped it 100$ bucks?.....its just the same thing.

Will new players potentially pay less for what you have? maybe...its called special offer, price reduction, whatever you like to caall it, its a scheme to attract new customers. Customers that take advantage of the special offer will pay less than those who didnt because they got the product when it didnt have a special price. And no, Turbine doesnt not owe you anything, you paid a fee to be able to play this game for 3 years and thats exactly what you got. Its really quite simple, its not rocket science, its just common business practice.

I know it may feel unfair, but really it isnt. Take the console example i just mentioned...I would feel bad if it happened to me...but its no one fault, I paid for what i wanted at the time and got it. Also for whats worth, I have been enjoying my console longer than the ones that bought it for 100$ less, so its fair.

[rezo]

Q. What happens to my characters?
A. Your characters are never deleted by Turbine! As a VIP who downgraded to a Free player, you'll have four character slots. When you enter the game as a Free player you'll be asked which characters you wish to unlock for these slots. If you'd like to unlock an additional character, you must purchase a slot for it. However, when you purchase this slot you'll also be given the option to exchange the characters in any previously unlocked slots with any of your locked characters.

Ok, let me see if I understand this. I have 9 toons right now if I downgrade I'll have to pick only 4 out of the 9 to play right and the others will be delete after I pick the 4??

[Lorichie]

Q. What happens to my characters?
A. Your characters are never deleted by Turbine! As a VIP who downgraded to a Free player, you'll have four character slots. When you enter the game as a Free player you'll be asked which characters you wish to unlock for these slots. If you'd like to unlock an additional character, you must purchase a slot for it. However, when you purchase this slot you'll also be given the option to exchange the characters in any previously unlocked slots with any of your locked characters.

Ok, let me see if I understand this. I have 9 toons right now if I downgrade I'll have to pick only 4 out of the 9 to play right and the others will be delete after I pick the 4??

incorrect, they'll be there waiting for you to unlock them

R

[Pwesiela]

Q. What happens to my characters?
A. Your characters are never deleted by Turbine! As a VIP who downgraded to a Free player, you'll have four character slots. When you enter the game as a Free player you'll be asked which characters you wish to unlock for these slots. If you'd like to unlock an additional character, you must purchase a slot for it. However, when you purchase this slot you'll also be given the option to exchange the characters in any previously unlocked slots with any of your locked characters.

Ok, let me see if I understand this. I have 9 toons right now if I downgrade I'll have to pick only 4 out of the 9 to play right and the others will be delete after I pick the 4??

Use money or aquire points to unlock slot #5 and you get to pick one of your remaining 5 to play.

[TommyBoy]

And what are you proposing? That Turbine should let you play for free now, just because you have been suscribed for 3 years?

Where as I would like the $200 life time offered to me and anyothers who have been here since pre and never canceled our accounts that was not what I was proposing per say. What I was basicly proposing is that those of us that have accounts should get to keep access for everything we currently have without haveing to rebuy if we decide to go to F2P. I have currently been a subscriber for every mod that has come out. ON those mods when they came was said "free to current subscriber" so those are already paid for. IE you have a sport illstrated suscription and you get free issues like the swimsuit, superbowl winner and all the mags that came out since you started and you decide that your cancling your subscription and buying from the news stand. SI says "thats fine but we need the Swimsuit and superbowl issues back and 50% of the content in the others. We'll give you the option to rebuy those. Oh by the way your buddy can buy the same things at the same price even though he's never had a subscription and you have."

also lets not forget that our $15 bucks isnt getting what it used to either. We've gone from a mod about every siwx weeks to now one a year.

[Favis]

- You can unlock more than 10 slots as a VIP, and as a Free player you can also unlock beyond 4 and even beyond 10 using Turbine Points. So if you're someone who loves to make alts, have fun!

Thanks.
That was intresting

[Leovor]

Where as I would like the $200 life time offered to me and anyothers who have been here since pre and never canceled our accounts that was not what I was proposing per say. What I was basicly proposing is that those of us that have accounts should get to keep access for everything we currently have without haveing to rebuy if we decide to go to F2P. I have currently been a subscriber for every mod that has come out. ON those mods when they came was said "free to current subscriber" so those are already paid for. IE you have a sport illstrated suscription and you get free issues like the swimsuit, superbowl winner and all the mags that came out since you started and you decide that your cancling your subscription and buying from the news stand. SI says "thats fine but we need the Swimsuit and superbowl issues back and 50% of the content in the others. We'll give you the option to rebuy those. Oh by the way your buddy can buy the same things at the same price even though he's never had a subscription and you have."

also lets not forget that our $15 bucks isnt getting what it used to either. We've gone from a mod about every siwx weeks to now one a year.

Tommyboy, by saying you want to go F2P and still have access to everything you had while you were a subscriber, you are effectively asking to play like a subscriber for free. In you mind you think you already paid these past 3 years for the right to access all current content forever, but you are wrong. What you have paid all these 3 years monthly was to have the right to access the game and play it and all its content. Also when Turbine made each Mod they added it for free to current subscribers. It means that current subscribers dont have to pay anything else besides their monthly fee to be able to access it. If you stopped paying, you got no access at all. Your SI example cannot be applied here, simply because you subscribe to a mag you pay to receive a magazine every month. You stop paying you stop getting the magazines, but the ones you already have are yours, because you paid for each magazine. In a MMO you pay for the right to access the servers and play the game for a period of time its totally different.

Turbine has now added new payment options the way I see it. Now you have the option of keep paying monthly and keep things as they were, or play a "free" account and pay a higher one time fee buying everything a VIP has and have it for life. For new comers its a very attractive proposition if they have the cash, and they even dont have to pay it all at once, and thats the whole idea of this new account type, attract new people and bring cash to Turbine. For old timers like you, well its a matter of whats better for your pockets, if you are pretty sure you see yourself playing this game for 2 or 3 more years and dont mind not having 500 TP a month stippend, you'd probably be better going to F2P and buying everything forever (yes now you would be buying it, you were just paying access before)...Im even toying with that idea too hehe. If you are not sure how much more time you are going to play then by all means stick to paying monthly access. You even have a whole new option...not paying at all and having limited access..thats an improvement, if you stopped paying before you got anything at all.

Let me finish with a simple example that relates exactly to the same issue:

Lets suppose LOTRO does not have a Lifetime sub. I played 2 years and paid roughly 300$, taking into account i took advantage of special pricing for 3 or 6 months subs, special pricing periods of 9.99 a month etc. Then tomorrow Turbine announces they will enable a Lifetime Subscription for 200$. Do you really think I would have the right to say that they should let me play for free because i have paid over the years more than the cost of a lifetime sub? I simply paid to play the game for 2 years, if i think I will at least 2 or 3 more years and have the cash i have the option to pay a lifetime sub and save money in the end, or if not, keep paying to access it until i want. New players will of course be attracted to this new option, but thats the idea of any special offer, attract new customers.

As a final comment, if at any point of the length of your subscription you felt you werent getting enough for your dollar, you were always free to stop paying and leave the game, thats what normally people do.

P.D. Dont get me wrong I still thing it would be nice of Turbine to reward current subscribers and Vets with a bonus amount of TP or other type of gift, but it would be a nicety, a good gesture, not something they owe to us in the strict sense of the word. In fact, giving 4 chars slot to former subscribers that downgrade to F2P instead the normal 2 and making certain (not all) favor TP rewards retroactive is a good start in that direction.

[Oior]

...In a MMO you pay for the right to access the servers and play the game for a period of time its totally different.

Turbine has now added new payment options the way I see it. Now you have the option of keep paying monthly and keep things as they were, or play a "free" account and pay a higher one time fee buying everything a VIP has and have it for life. For new comers its a very attractive proposition if they have the cash, and they even dont have to pay it all at once, and thats the whole idea of this new account type, attract new people and bring cash to Turbine. For old timers like you, well its a matter of whats better for your pockets, if you are pretty sure you see yourself playing this game for 2 or 3 more years and dont mind not having 500 TP a month stippend, you'd probably be better going to F2P and buying everything forever (yes now you would be buying it, you were just paying access before)...Im even toying with that idea too hehe. If you are not sure how much more time you are going to play then by all means stick to paying monthly access. You even have a whole new option...not paying at all and having limited access..thats an improvement, if you stopped paying before you got anything at all...


P.D. Dont get me wrong I still thing it would be nice of Turbine to reward current subscribers and Vets with a bonus amount of TP or other type of gift, but it would be a nicety, a good gesture, not something they owe to us in the strict sense of the word. In fact, giving 4 chars slot to former subscribers that downgrade to F2P instead the normal 2 and making certain (not all) favor TP rewards retroactive is a good start in that direction.

Yep, it's the difference between buying a service and buying a product. Our subscription pays for a service not a product. That being said what a slap in the face if their isn't some gesture of goodwill towards Founders and long time subscribers once EU goes live.
my 2cps

[shores11]

Just a little confused, everyone is saying that if you down grade from VIP to free you get to choose 2 of your toons, but this post says 4...is this right? Thanks Patience.

No reason to be confused he said 4, who cares what the players are saying.

[shores11]

It is not that we are demanding F2P, but we are simply trying to understand the pros and cons of both systems, and morer importantly, why some of the decision Turbine has made, are blatant snubs to those os us who have been here a long long time.

I don't consider anything they are doing a snub. If you want the same level of service keep it. If you want free to play thats what you get and what comes with it.

[TommyBoy]

Tommyboy, by saying you want to go F2P and still have access to everything you had while you were a subscriber, you are effectively asking to play like a subscriber for free.

No what I'm asking for is access to everything up to the point I cut my count to f2p. meaning if something new comes out after then by all means I would need to pay for it but not what I basically already paid for. It is rediculous that they would in a round about way just give the finger to those of us that have supported them this long.

oh and lets not forget that we've gone from 6weeks betwen mods to about a year?
my moneys not buying what it used to.

[Rokollus]

i know basic common sense. entice new prospects to try your product, (F2P) keep your current consumers happy(VIP's). im betting ddo hasnt forsaken these very basic principles. However, you cant keep everyone happy all of the time and still a business needs to progress and keep making capitol or no one will have the product and end game, no ones happy.


as a kid id dump 2-3 bucks a day in the local arcade after school. thats 15 bucks a week for maybe 5 hours of gameplay. the 2-3 bucks a day wasnt always easy to get in the mid 80's.

now, im new to the mmo community, but it seems to me 15 bucks a month to play a game is pretty fair no matter how long or short your time has been.

[Arianrhod]

[QUOTE=Tolero;2241247Re: VIPs and Level Sigils vs Free
- If you're a VIP you don't ever deal with the level sigils. Level sigils are for Free players only, allowing them to gradually raise their cap.
- If you're Free, periodically you'll need to find or use Turbine Points to acquire sigils to progress in level i.e. your Trainer will need to see a sigil before they allow you to achieve above a certain threshold of levels.
- If you are a Former VIP, any characters you leveled as a VIP will retain their progress, but depending on how high level the characters are, they may need a sigil (or sigils) to progress once you become Free. Example: If you were level 16 and become Free, you'll still need a sigil to reach level 20, but you don't need to go back and find lower level sigils for the levels you already completed.

[/QUOTE]

Just looking for a little clarification here - let's say a sigil is needed for a free player to level from 8 to 12, and another from 12 to 16. If a former VIP has a level 10 character, will that character be assumed to already have the "8 to 12" sigil and not need another till they try to level to 13, or will they need a sigil to go from 10 to 12?

[Braegan]

Please reconsider some of the changes for VIP to FTP. Mainly the content buying. It makes absolutely no sense that I have been into an area a bazillion times and if I decide to downgrade and return to that area I need to pay for it. Limits on plat, AH, etc make way more sense then limiting content that we have already done. But then again I am just really starting to feel that Turbine does not want nor care about the vets of this game, and actions speak louder then words...and they have.

[jfunk]

I haven't subscribed in the past, so I can't "feel you pain" so to speak, but I have to say you guys asking for completely free access to the entire game are off base.

You haven't "already paid" for anything in the future. What you've paid for, you've already used...which is the access you had to the game for the past three years.

If they simply gave you guys free access to everything currently in the game forever starting next month, they'd lose every single one of you as paying customers, as you'd have no reason to pay them another cent. That is is no way "good business" and it certainly doesn't "make sense".

Currently, their attempt at "throwing you a bone" is giving you 2 extra character slots and access to the VIP messaging and cash bank stuff.

Now, if you would like to argue that this isn't enough as a reward for your loyal support, by all means make that argument. But, it needs to reasonable. Ask for even more character slots...or how about free leveling up to 12 instead of only 4 on new characters? Or perhaps free access to the first two charged modules. Stuff like that. Asking for completely free access to the full content of the game forever simply isn't reasonable and isn't going to happen.

Their move to a F2P model is an attempt to save the game by making more money, not an attempt to put the final nail in the coffin by making even less money than they have been. Saying all their best customers should simply be able to continue playing the full game forever without spending another dime is basically asking them to guarantee this whole thing is shut down within the next year. And no, agreeing to pay for only new content added isn't sufficient, that won't be bringing in enough money.

Again, I understand your feeling slighted here, but you have to be reasonable in your views of what you "deserve". Unlimited free access simply is not reasonable.

[Braegan]

I haven't subscribed in the past, so I can't "feel you pain" so to speak, but I have to say you guys asking for completely free access to the entire game are off base.

You haven't "already paid" for anything in the future. What you've paid for, you've already used...which is the access you had to the game for the past three years.

If they simply gave you guys free access to everything currently in the game forever starting next month, they'd lose every single one of you as paying customers, as you'd have no reason to pay them another cent. That is is no way "good business" and it certainly doesn't "make sense".

Currently, their attempt at "throwing you a bone" is giving you 2 extra character slots and access to the VIP messaging and cash bank stuff.

Now, if you would like to argue that this isn't enough as a reward for your loyal support, by all means make that argument. But, it needs to reasonable. Ask for even more character slots...or how about free leveling up to 12 instead of only 4 on new characters? Or perhaps free access to the first two charged modules. Stuff like that. Asking for completely free access to the full content of the game forever simply isn't reasonable and isn't going to happen.

Their move to a F2P model is an attempt to save the game by making more money, not an attempt to put the final nail in the coffin by making even less money than they have been. Saying all their best customers should simply be able to continue playing the full game forever without spending another dime is basically asking them to guarantee this whole thing is shut down within the next year. And no, agreeing to pay for only new content added isn't sufficient, that won't be bringing in enough money.

Again, I understand your feeling slighted here, but you have to be reasonable in your views of what you "deserve". Unlimited free access simply is not reasonable.

Well I certainly understand that while this is my recreation it is also a business that needs revenue to continue its existence. I had just hoped the things a VIP to FTP would have to pay for would be different then what was decided. And it never hurts to ask.

[jfunk]

Well I certainly understand that while this is my recreation it is also a business that needs revenue to continue its existence. I had just hoped the things a VIP to FTP would have to pay for would be different then what was decided. And it never hurts to ask.

Yes, I completely understand your feelings that you wish things were different than they are and I can see that one simple point.

However, simply asking for free access to the entire current content from here on out while canceling your $15/mo payments is just blatantly unreasonable. Perhaps if people put some energy into making realistic suggestions, somebody might stumble upon one that is agreeable to both sides and somebody will take notice.

Instead, it's 90% people saying "I should get the entire game for free some here on out". My point is only that this is a voice that will obviously be ignored...it simply can't happen in real life. You can't complain about your opinion being ignored when your opinion is blatantly ridiculous. Just try making some reasonable suggestions. Maybe somebody that matters will actually stumble upon a suggestion that actually makes sense and bring it to the table where the decisions are made. Simply repeating absurd suggestions over and over only guarantees that you will be ignored.

I'm trying to help you guys out here. As a new player, I don't want all the experienced people to quit, it will make for a suck game. But, you gotta step away from the edge of the cliff here a little and stop acting like you'll just kill yourself if you can't have it all. Those types of statements not only guarantee you'll be ignored, they prove that you SHOULD be.

You can't reason with a mad man. Thus, if you would like to be reasoned with, don't come off like a mad man.

[Braegan]

Yes, I completely understand your feelings that you wish things were different than they are and I can see that one simple point.

However, simply asking for free access to the entire current content from here on out while canceling your $15/mo payments is just blatantly unreasonable. Perhaps if people put some energy into making realistic suggestions, somebody might stumble upon one that is agreeable to both sides and somebody will take notice.

Instead, it's 90% people saying "I should get the entire game for free some here on out". My point is only that this is a voice that will obviously be ignored...it simply can't happen in real life. You can't complain about your opinion being ignored when your opinion is blatantly ridiculous. Just try making some reasonable suggestions. Maybe somebody that matters will actually stumble upon a suggestion that actually makes sense and bring it to the table where the decisions are made. Simply repeating absurd suggestions over and over only guarantees that you will be ignored.

I'm trying to help you guys out here. As a new player, I don't want all the experienced people to quit, it will make for a suck game. But, you gotta step away from the edge of the cliff here a little and stop acting like you'll just kill yourself if you can't have it all. Those types of statements not only guarantee you'll be ignored, they prove that you SHOULD be.

You can't reason with a mad man. Thus, if you would like to be reasoned with, don't come off like a mad man.

Ok now you got me laughing.

1st) Nowhere did I say I was going FTP, I said "if"
2nd) I made one suggesstion on this thread, hardly qualifies as a madman ranting over and over again.
3rd) I never ranted that my suggesstions/ideas went unheard.
4th) I have given suggestions before, this one I don't have another reasonable one to counter, thus I gave up on the stand-point.
5th) I thought I was rather polite in my request, and to me it was just that: A request (albeit the last sentence was tinged with some bitterness/saddness but I'm over it).

I could go on and on, but please before you lump me into a category of ranting madmen that want it all look over my history of posting and you will find that assesment quite false. Good try though and welcome to DDO

[jfunk]

Ok now you got me laughing.

1st) Nowhere did I say I was going FTP, I said "if"
2nd) I made one suggesstion on this thread, hardly qualifies as a madman ranting over and over again.
3rd) I never ranted that my suggesstions/ideas went unheard.
4th) I have given suggestions before, this one I don't have another reasonable one to counter, thus I gave up on the stand-point.
5th) I thought I was rather polite in my request, and to me it was just that: A request (albeit the last sentence was tinged with some bitterness/saddness but I'm over it).

I could go on and on, but please before you lump me into a category of ranting madmen that want it all look over my history of posting and you will find that assesment quite false. Good try though and welcome to DDO

Sorry, I wasn't responding to you in particular when referring to "you", just expanding on my previous point. I was saying I understand your "hoping the things would be different" and then expanding upon my previous statement about the types of arguments made here that are drowning out reasonable statements such as your own.

To clarify, my position is that it is reasonable for the long time subscribers to expect something more than what is being offered, however those that are simply asking for the entire current content of the game to be available for free from this point forward are not helping the cause by demanding it repeatedly, as it is an unreasonable request.