Maybe I'm a Jerk

[kappelm]

Yup, dispell can get rid of all buffs. It's awesome for PvP, but it only gets a few buffs at a time. I'm not sure of the actual math behind it.

And while I was sort of trolling (bored at work), I wanted to share the story and get the opinion of my fellow DDOers.

I'll save my tools next time I'm in a party with a rogue. Apologies to the poor gimped rogue for last night.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Yup, dispell can get rid of all buffs. It's awesome for PvP, but it only gets a few buffs at a time. I'm not sure of the actual math behind it.

ah look, demonstrating that you don't understand how a wiz works any more than you know how a rogue works ("low DPS" lol, ya right)

[weyoun]

I don't think dispelling one person one time is quite up to my standards of jerkitude. Try greasing the cliff ledge in Tempest Spine or breaking pillars on top of people gang-banging the titan to his death. Lolz. Seriously though. I had a trickster build at one time. Very usefull but you will die without evasion on high end traps . . . a lot and worse, you're spell pen is going to suffer in places where it matters (Shroud I, II and IV/VOD). All good though. The class has a lot of utility but is naturally gimped in the two regards I mentioned. Choosing between dex for your reflex save or con for HPs is troubling. You can take Insightful reflexes to compensate but that means you're gimping heighten or spell pen II or toughness.

Not taking two levels of rogue means is going to hurt when you roll a 1, and you know how you like to roll 1's in DDO. I can't stand not having the best [insert class here] so it bothered me on both ends (spell pen and reflex) enough to delete the toon.

[kappelm]

ah look, demonstrating that you don't understand how a wiz works any more than you know how a rogue works ("low DPS" lol, ya right)

LOL. Try finding where I said a rogue was low DPS. Didn't you learn only to use quotes if the person actually said it?

I was using a wand for the dispell... without enhancement... I don't know the mechanics of this particular spell...

[jmonty]

Popcorn, anyone?

ty!

*nom nom nom*

[tc12]

Gwylan's really doesn't prove anything that shouldn't have already been obvious to you. Of course a Wiz X / Rogue 1 at low levels will have a higher search & disable than a pure rogue -- they're INT skills. And it makes sense for a Wiz to start max-INT while that's too much INT for a rogue (in general, some assassins mightwant a very high INT too).

The mistake is thinking this makes you an uber rogue. It does not. It means you have a good search and disable for the level you're at. Do you have stealth? More importantly, do you have evasion? No? How are you gonna use those uber trap skills when you need to cross the trap to disable it in later quests? Oh, then you'll let the rogue take the lead? LOL

A second rogue level and using a feat for Insightful reflexes and then you'll have very good evasion too, if you go that route. But at that point you'll be a full spell level behind pure Wiz character and -2 on your spell DCs. So it's all relative for what you wanna build for.

Bottom line is yes, at low/mid-levels of course a Wiz/Ro will have higher INT-skills than a pure rogue, that's just obvious. With enhancements that won't necessarily be the case later, though those two skills should always be sufficient for you given proper gear. If you can get to the box. Just don't confuse yourself about what you can and cannot do, 2 rogue skills alone do not make a rogue. Just a trap finder/disabler. That's helpful in a large number of situations, but doesn't solve all rogue needs.

Keep that in mind when being critical of others roles in various quests and levels and you may learn to appreciate the team aspect of the game more. Otherwise, add that second rogue level and play solo if that better fits your sense of accomplishment.

[Thriand]

A second rogue level and using a feat for Insightful reflexes and then you'll have very good evasion too, if you go that route. But at that point you'll be a full spell level behind pure Wiz character and -2 on your spell DCs. So it's all relative for what you wanna build for.

Theres a 1 point hit on spell DC's because they can't heighten it as much right now at 14/2 but at 18/2 there is no difference is spell DC. The only difference is in Spell Pen which is down by 2 points and the spell slots/spell points you lose for the 2 levels of rogue.

*Edit* Wasn't thinking of the Wizard capstone so a wizard would still have 1 more potential point to his spell DC's from int

[Yajerman01]

LOL. Try finding where I said a rogue was low DPS. Didn't you learn only to use quotes if the person actually said it?

I was using a wand for the dispell... without enhancement... I don't know the mechanics of this particular spell...

He does have a point Lorien, he never implied "low dps" but rather "...tiny non-dps role."

So "low" implies some ability to hit whereas he states that even though he has a "non-dps role" it is also "tiny".

So I am confused, was it a "tiny role" because he was actually producing dps? because he did state it was a tiny "non" dps role which would imply his non-dps time was doing teh traps, and lets face it, when doing traps there ar never really enough of them to take up the majority of your time, so I would pressume that time would be minimal, or as he put it, "tiny".

<shrugs>

[Pallol_One-Eye]

I find the 14 wiz/2 rogue an awesome multi to bump around with. Make him WF and don't worry about keeping yourself healthy.

You will have less sp, no huge deal, be a buffer, CC caster instead of a Instakill DPS freak. You should still have plenty of sp for that. Insightful Reflexes makes it much easier to make your save on the occasional pesky trap.

As far as degrading pure classes, generally bad form. You will find that you "wish" your multi would be able to lay the DPS like the rogue can at upper levels without pulling aggro.

/mindless freeform non-qualified reply off....

******....where is my coffee

[Comfortably]

Yup, dispell can get rid of all buffs. It's awesome for PvP.

Only little kids use dispell in PvP.

[Yajerman01]

Only little kids use dispell in PvP.

you caught that too. /signed

[Comfortably]

you caught that too. /signed

hehe, I enjoy PvPing with friends from time to time, I know several people that do it much more than I, and if you've ever really gotten into pvp you'd notice there is a sort of "code" that most people go by when it comes to an "honest" fight.

[kappelm]

He does have a point Lorien, he never implied "low dps" but rather "...tiny non-dps role."

So "low" implies some ability to hit whereas he states that even though he has a "non-dps role" it is also "tiny".

So I am confused, was it a "tiny role" because he was actually producing dps? because he did state it was a tiny "non" dps role which would imply his non-dps time was doing teh traps, and lets face it, when doing traps there ar never really enough of them to take up the majority of your time, so I would pressume that time would be minimal, or as he put it, "tiny".

<shrugs>

By "... tiny non-dps role" I meant the tiny role that was not DPS (i.e., search/disable). I did NOT mean that rogues are not awesome DPS. It's undeniable.

[Yajerman01]

hehe, I enjoy PvPing with friends from time to time, I know several people that do it much more than I, and if you've ever really gotten into pvp you'd notice there is a sort of "code" that most people go by when it comes to an "honest" fight.

Yes and that code is often upheld, but on occassion, aside younger kids and freinds dispelling you, you get the frustrated player who resorts to it.

The argument for that is, its pvp "anything goes", i guess thats when i get a call to arms and fill the pvp floor with 10 players and tell him, "you know what, your absolutely right, come on down", lol (j/k), but serious

[secondchance]

Actually I didn't favor dex; I favored int, which is what my sp and disable,search are based on... but you play a rogue, so you know that... My con is low, but with a +2 tome and an item, I will be better endgame than all those drow sorc/wizzys running around.

you don't get what's he's saying .....

and I hope you are aiming for 24-26 con endgame or there will be lots of DING moments in your toon's future

it's cool that you can disable traps if you join a grp there's no rogue you want to say to the star "hey I can handle the traps" and if he agrees great that;s aweome... but most will expect a rogue to preform a rogue functions in a quest ....most will expect a bard to buff, and cleric to heal, a caster to either buff cc or kill a melee to dps or intim or what ever ...you getting upset casue the rogue wanted and was preforming his fucntion in the the team .....well you answered your own question ....yes you were

[kinar]

It is easy for a Wiz/rogue to hit some outstanding numbers on INT based skills, and enjoy that synergy. What will hurt is the lack of evasion and improved evasion on high end traps, along with the very high REF saves those traps call for. Not hard for a single level splash to disable most all traps, where you can stand in a safe spot.

No one is gonna argue that the combo has merit, it does and will. Taking more than 1 rogue splash level will impact your spell access however, but at a tradeoff for evasion which some consider worth it.

He can take 1 more rogue and get his evasion, which he probably will do in order to keep his rogue skills maxed.

Insightful reflexes will take care of the reflex save issues (wizards have plenty of feats).

High end traps are a joke. With the exception of monestary, even a halfway devent reflex (22+ which he should hit) is "good enough" The ones that are gonna need more than that need 35+ which is just insane to expect anyone but a dex based roge, monk, or ranger to hit fully buffed.




AS for the OP...yes yer were a jerk. It doesn't matter who disables the traps, just that they get disabled. I have a 14/2 clogue that can hit a higher disable/search/ol than most rogues in the game as well (and could all the way through leveling)...and I'm a cleric (so no synergy with int). I've been through what you're going through.

[Raelg14]

Popcorn, anyone?

Yes please with Butter?

[Yajerman01]

expect anyone but a dex based roge, monk, or ranger to hit fully buffed.

My Str based Fighter/Pally/Monk gets 37/36/32 without bard, i.e. fully buffed. SO its possbile to be str based without being dex based.

[Ayspy]

I will be better endgame than all those drow sorc/wizzys running around.

You think?

[Lerincho]

sounds to me typical attitude that the only one that can do it right is the OP. nevermind that other people pay the exact same amount of money as he does for the ability to play the game.

1, was the rogue already in the party?
2, were you given exclusive rights to all traps by party leader and any other rogue skilled individuals in the party?
3, were the traps labeled with your name on them?
4, did the traps only appear for you, and disappear for all others?

too bad you're not on my server.