Looking for some input/suggestions

[Kaleos]

Well first off, this would be my first attempt at a multiclassed build, so I've been reading the forums for months trying to learn some of the intricacies on the subject. This build was based off Impaqt's 12/2/2 pally/fighter/monk initially, though I started to mess with stats to see what variants I could come up with. My thoughts for the four levels (17-20) were to either wind up with 4 levels paladin or 3 levels paladin, and an additional level monk. Potentially as a variant it would use rogue instead of monk levels, but I've had trouble building with the rogue variant.

What I'd like to see in the build:
TWF line
Healing Dragonmarks
Evasion

I do have access some +2s, and +1s . Go ahead and account for raid gear, shroud stuff, etc. If anyone is willing, I'd be interested to see a workup for a varaint with rogue as much as monk.

Here's my original attempt:

16 Pal/2 Fighter/2 Monk
Align: LG

Str: 20 (11 base, +2 Str tome, +1 enhance, +6 item)
Dex: 30 (17 base, +2 dex tome, +1 enhance, +6 item)
Con: 22 (14 base, +2 Con tome)
Int: 14 (12, +2 Int tome)
Wis: 22 (13 base, +2 wis tome, +1 enhance, +6 item)
Cha: 22 (12 base, +2 Cha tome, +2 enhance, +6 item)

note, could boost dex to a 32 possibly with a +3 tome and additional enhancement; when in wind stance it would rest at a 32/34 respectively then

HP: 502
160 16 Pal
20 2 Ftr
16 2 Mnk
18 Toughness
60 Toughness Enhancements (Pal IV, Racial II)
5 Way of the Tortoise
120 Con
30 GFL
18 Minos
10 Draconic Vitality
45 Shroud HP Item

SP: 542
172 16 Pally
150 Wis Bonus
300 Shroud item
20 Enhancements


Saving Throws:
Fort: 10 + 3 + 3 + 6 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 1 = 35
Ref: 5 + 3 + 0 + 10 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 1 = 32
Will: 5 + 3 + 0 + 6 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 1 = 28
With hero pots: 37/34/30 (39/36/32 with gird)

AC:
10 Base
1 Halfling
10 Dex
6 Wis
7 Bracers
5 CE
5 Prot
4 Aura
3 Chattering Ring
4 Icy Rainments
1 Alchemical ritual
56 standing AC (57 with Wind Stance)
4 Insight weapon
60/61 base potential

When taking into account for self-buffing it increases to 64/65 potential with just a bark +3 pot and haste. If access to shield, it rises to 68/69. And if a friendly ranger or bard want to chip in, that rises additionally by a max of +6 total to 74/75 roughly.

Skills: UMD, Balance, Tumble, Jump, Diplo
Technically not a shining star with any particular skill, but quite respectable for what's needed to get the job done.

Useful tricks:
Full dragonmarks and extended uses (9/7/5). Three Lay on Hands for healing. Has approx a 50% chance on Raise Dead or Heal Scrolls. Remove Disease 8/rest which can also be used to produce Lesser or Full Restoration effects.
Positive energy amplification means increased healing on self; resistant to negative energy as well as immune to energy drain from any source (effectively making her immune to level drain from what I surmise).

Enhancements: (80 pts total)
Extra Dragonmark I-IV (10)
Halfling Dex I (2)
Disciple of Breezes (1)
Bulwark of Good I-III (6)
Resistance of Good I-III (6)
Divine Sacrifice I (1)
Exalted Smite I (1)
Extra Lay on Hands I-II (3)
Extra Smite Evil I-III (6)
Devotion I-II (3)
Paladin Charisma I-II (6)
Fighter Strength I (2)
Monk Wisdom I (2)
Paladin Toughness I-IV (10)
Halfling Racial Toughness I-II (3)
Way of the Tortoise I (1)
Paladin Improved Turning I-II (6)
Paladin Extra Turning I-II (3)
Hunter of the Dead I-II (6)
Energy of the Templar I (1)
Divine Might I (1)

Feats:
TWF, ITWF, GTWF; Least, Lesser, Greater Dragonmark of Healing, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Toughness, Improved Crit Piercing.

Smites: 7/rest
Turns: 3 (base) + 6 (cha mod) + 2 (enhance) + 4 (HoTD I & II) = 15

Spells: 3/3/2/2
1st level: Virtue, Divine Favor, CLW
2nd level: Angelskin, Resist Energy, Remove Paralysis
3rd level: Prayer, CMW
4th level: Holy Sword, Zeal

[Geonis]

Two points-

1- Looks like someone forgot level up points

2- Never carry Holy Sword, just load when you log in, make your weapon(s) and swap out. (You do have to step in to a quest/explorer to cast)


Edit: Drop 2 points of Int and put them into Cha. You have plenty of skill points. BTW, don't waste your time on Diplo.

[Mithran]

I don't look at all the potential bonuses, preferring to look at my builds in raw terms.

Having said that, here's what I came up with:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Lobelia 
Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Fighter \ 12 Paladin \ 2 Monk) 
Hit Points: 291
Spell Points: 178 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 23
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             11                    12
Dexterity            17                    24
Constitution         13                    14
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom               13                    16
Charisma             14                    20

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               8                    18
Bluff                 3                     5
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             3                     5
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     5
Heal                  2                     5
Hide                  4                     9
Intimidate            3                    25
Jump                  5                    11
Listen                2                     5
Move Silently         4                     9
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     1
Spot                  6                     7
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                8                    11
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing


Level 16 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Monk Balance I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Monk Jump I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV

The halfling nerf to Intimidate being what it is, you'd probably prefer to level up Balance, Jump or Spot, instead.

[Thanimal]

Can you comment more on:

1) Why you chose Halfling?
2) What the Fighter levels are for?
3) Goals of the build in terms of role in a party (or soloing if that is planned)?

I don't think I'm quite getting "the idea" of this build. Hopefully the above will help me understand and enable me to give useful feedback to achieve your goals.

[Kaleos]

1) Why you chose Halfling?
2) What the Fighter levels are for?
3) Goals of the build in terms of role in a party (or soloing if that is planned)?

1. This build originated out of interest in Impaqt's halfling dragonmarked 12/2/2 build. That's mainly why I had it set up that way. It struck me as something interesting basically. I chose halfling because of the dragonmarks and as a way to have something different from the bulk of my characters (most are human or drow). I experimented for a while with the marks and enjoyed it, hence part of this build.

2. The fighter levels were to ensure I could get the feats in for the build basically. As I say, this build was adapted off Impaqt's, so it's a large part as to why.

3. This build was aimed for being self-sufficient, able to contribute to a group, and just something a little off the wall. I've already got a pure pally, and I've greatly enjoyed her thus far to the cap. I've messed with some pretty weird alterations, including a battle mage, but none of them really seem to fit quite right.

What I'm aiming for with this concept was a dual wielding melee who was flexible enough to switch from offensive to defensive capacity, had decent self-sufficiency, and able to contribute to a group. The 2 monk levels granted the extra feats and evasion, and the bonus of wisdom for AC purposes. Paladin levels grant the immunities, aura, saves, and the Hunter prestige path (the boosts to positive energy received and the immunity/resistence to neg specifically). Fighter was used to again take any feats that would otherwise not fit.
She's not a specialist with a particular weapon, like a kensai, but she'd be decent with whatever she was using. Flexibility and surivability were what I was after at the time.

[Thanimal]

Thanks -- I'm seeing it now. You wanted the healing Dragonmarks on a TWF "Paladin," but that left you a "wee bit" feat constrained so 2 Fighter (and 2 Monk) straightened that out for you, along with providing minor (Fighter) and major (Monk) other benefits.

So the remaining issue I want to explore is where you fall w/rt DPS and defenses. As a Finesse build with the particular focus you have, it is my belief that your DPS will only be "OK" even in TWF/Power Attack mode. Nothing wrong with that *if* you bring something else to the table. And I must admit you do: Dragonmarks, Paladin spells, and Paladin auras are all things your partymates will be happy about. But I'm greedy - I want more!

One thing I'd suggest to increase DPS situationally is the Halfling Guile line -- this works even on non-Rogues and can help you a lot if you're "competing" with a "real" DPS, such that aggro is off of you.

Meanwhile, your defenses should be *excellent* -- Halfling has the best AC potential in the game, and you add on full Auras and Monk WIS bonus. Focus your items toward AC and you should be rock solid, especially in CE mode. But none of that does anything if you don't draw aggro, and with your moderate DPS you don't have any obvious means to draw said aggro. So I'd like to explore Intimidate. My feeling is that if you can't hold aggro somehow, then a party would be better off with you on a much more DPS-oriented Paladin, such as a WF Paladin 18/Monk 2 with dual-Khopesh. Such a Paladin brings much of the same things to the table, and contributes far more DPS. Since your DPS can't match that, I want something else to contribute. Dragonmarks don't quite feel like "enough" to me, but I could be wrong.

The problem is that Intimidate gets hit with a nasty -4 Penalty for being a Halfling. Still, I think with a relatively pain-free investment you can at least get it to be usable, because you have high CHA. Let's say we take the Monk +1 Intim and the Fighter +1 Intim, full ranks, and optimal equipment:

19 ranks
15 item
1 Fighter enh
1 Monk enh
6 Cha
6 Shroud item
4 Greater Heroism
2 Bard Song
-4 Halfling
---
50

Not gonna win a prize for the world's best Intim score, but you CAN hit a lot of stuff with this score, which I think might significantly up your party value.

However, there may be another way! How 'bout that Paladin defender line? By having CE you are able to qualify for this line, and it offers something very interesting: massive increases in Hate (in the stance). While you can't match a "real" DPS build, you do have pretty decent damage output, and so doubling (with Defender II) that probably COULD hold aggro reliably. Although this may seriously mess with your action points, my feeling is this is slightly better than trying to get Intimidate to work, mainly because this tactic DOES work against bosses, whom you wouldn't be able to Intimidate with your "OK" Intim score. And it's really bosses where you're most likely to want to go CE mode and hold aggro. Trash mobs will probably get Power Attacked.

I think a lot of folks look at the Paladin defender line as a way to make shields suck less, but in fact the stance offers some benefits that are probably much MORE valuable to a TWF build.

[Thanimal]

Btw, I just dug up Impaqt's original build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=159580) and he did include Intimidate. (I would have been VERY surprised if he hadn't had some way to take direct advantage of the defenses of this build; he's pretty reliable.)

However, he didn't have Defender of Syberis as an option when he made that build, and -- assuming Mod 9 actually DOES come some day -- I think it's probably the better option.

[Mithran]

I hadn't looked at Impaqt's build, myself. I took the Intimidate because it looked to me primarily like a defensive build. I was also assuming that this was the reason for the Fighter levels (apart from the inherent benefit of two additional Feats). Regardless, the initial request was for a Dragonmarked halfling, so I boosted the Charisma for the option of taking advantage of Divine Might and nice Exalted Smites, too.

[Mithran]

What I'm aiming for with this concept was a dual wielding melee who was flexible enough to switch from offensive to defensive capacity, had decent self-sufficiency, and able to contribute to a group.

The build seems to me almost defensive in its construction. Having made the build that way, you'd do well to make every attempt for offense you can, thereafter. To be honest, I don't know that the Dragonmarks are necessary. You might also look at the possibility of skipping the Fighter levels for Zeal. That's (currently) 14 Paladin/2 Monk. My most recent build was a 14 Paladin/2 Rogue (for UMD and Intimidate). Her A/C isn't quite up to snuff yet, but her dps is nice. That's the offensive version of what you're talking about, here.