power attack question?

[osirisisis]

With a WF barb is there ever a time when double power attack enhancement hurts your DPS do to mobs AC in end game content?

[Milamber69]

Only on raid bosses on Elite generally is it ever noticeable

[Shade]

Untrue. AC scales very little on hard/elite. Generally only +1-3 points tops. The largest variation is monster type. Turbine goes based on PnP rules +some amount to balance out our bonuses. So mobs with high AC in pnp, have high ac in DDO, mobs with low AC have low AC. Raid boss or not.

Only versus certain monsters is much more accurate. Things with high AC you will miss allot if you take all 6 power attack enhancements:
Orthons - In any quest, not just raids
Fire Elementals
Paragon Kobold
Drow or Dwarf warrior NPCs in certain quests (Tempest spine and Black anvil mines come to mind)
Heavy Armor Skeletons (ones that usually have shields)
Ancient Beholders (not regular ones)


Many raid bosses have much lower AC then the above listed monsters. Especially ones like the Giant, Dragon(s) and Titan. Both Devils raidbosses have a good AC, tho still lower then monsters Orthons and Fire Elementals.

[toughguyjoe]

I have a level 12 Barbarian that Power attacks for 10. I rarely turn it off. At the end game i assume that swinging a +5 DPS shroud weapon i will never ever turn it off. Well, maybe in PVP against someone with 80 AC or something.

[Shade]

I have a level 12 Barbarian that Power attacks for 10. I rarely turn it off. At the end game i assume that swinging a +5 DPS shroud weapon i will never ever turn it off. Well, maybe in PVP against someone with 80 AC or something.

Wheres the logic in that?

At level 12 you can already use a +5 weapon, heck you can use one at level8. You confirmed you only have the standard un-enhanced power attack of +10 dmg/-5 attack.

At higher level you could boost that from -5 attack to -11 attack, and really gain no more bonus to hit, as the mobs AC will go up by a portional amount that your to-hit goes up from bab/more str/etc.

At end game.. My opinion on needed setup to hit fine vs most things (2handed, TWF you need even more):
-5 power attack: Just rage and you'll be fine
-6: Gona need at least a +2 str tome or dwarven attack bonus
-7: Add at least madstone boots
-8: +3 strength tome, madstone boots, +1 exceptional DT armor and a +1 dwarven attack bonus
-9: Your missing on a 2
-10: Your missing on a 3
-11: Your missing on a 4

[Borror0]

Wheres the logic in that?

He probably does not use a +5 weapon.

[osirisisis]

Wheres the logic in that?

At level 12 you can already use a +5 weapon, heck you can use one at level8. You confirmed you only have the standard un-enhanced power attack of +10 dmg/-5 attack.

At higher level you could boost that from -5 attack to -11 attack, and really gain no more bonus to hit, as the mobs AC will go up by a portional amount that your to-hit goes up from bab/more str/etc.

At end game.. My opinion on needed setup to hit fine vs most things (2handed, TWF you need even more):
-5 power attack: Just rage and you'll be fine
-6: Gona need at least a +2 str tome or dwarven attack bonus
-7: Add at least madstone boots
-8: +3 strength tome, madstone boots, +1 exceptional DT armor and a +1 dwarven attack bonus
-9: Your missing on a 2
-10: Your missing on a 3
-11: Your missing on a 4

If the context is twf what would your scale above be?

[Dark-Star]

Just a few tips a lot of people over look.

You can get a stacking +2 to hit from the Pathfinders set. For many classes, it's tough to fit them in, but barbs are not as slot intensive as some.

More obviously, use a gird pre-rage; use Spectral Gloves or Tumbleweed or the newbie goggles if you are not grouped with a bard.

Tharnes goggles help situationally.

If you are THF, weigh the cost-benefit of interupting the attack chain early vs. later on harder to hit mobs.

Use a Destruction item.

Lead with a Sunder (situational). Have Ooze guard (- to AC stacks with Sunder).

If you are vorpaling, get a vorpal of enfeebling for the times you end up killing via dps over proc.

[BlackSteel]

if theres a bard in party its a nonissue for 99% of the content. steps that dark mentioned are the best routes to take for groups w/o a bard.

i think shade is just upset he likes to roll dwarveseys

[Strakeln]

Well, maybe in PVP against someone with 80 AC or something.

Understand that unless the person slips up or you formulate the rules to handicap the 80-AC player, turning off PA won't help you for this case. Your best bet is to survive and wait for your opponent to forget something.

85AC vs Barbarian - wait for the end

[HeavenlyCloud]

Understand that unless the person slips up or you formulate the rules to handicap the 80-AC player, turning off PA won't help you for this case. Your best bet is to survive and wait for your opponent to forget something.

85AC vs Barbarian - wait for the end

or just use a high crit range weapon... like Sword of shadows and don't turn PA off.

[Monkey_Archer]

The point where to turn PA off is a somewhat complicated calculation...

It depends on how much your average damage is... how high the targets ac is... if you are getting the +5, +10 to hit bonuses for late chain attacks... etc... etc..

basically, for 19 hits, each enhancement adds 19 damage (38 for 2-handed)....

so if your averge hit does more then 19 damage (38 2handed) then if that enhancement causes more misses, the extra damage does not make up for it...

in other words, if you start noticing misses, turn power attack off

[Dark-Star]

or just use a high crit weapon... like Sword of shadows and don't turn PA off.

Unless they are one of those sneaky high ac guys that also wears a heavy fort item.

Strak, the link seems broken.

[oberon131313]

Unless they are one of those sneaky high ac guys that also wears a heavy fort item.

Strak, the link seems broken.

heavy fort doesn't negate that you auto-hit on crits, just the extra damage.

[Drekisen]

U can also aquire greater bane weapons to offset the attack penalty. It is possible now to even get +5 of greater bane, which is like a +9 weapon versus specific monster types.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Unless they are one of those sneaky high ac guys that also wears a heavy fort item.

Huh? You don't pvp much i can tell.

Just read Oberon13's post .

[BlackSteel]

heavy fort doesn't negate that you auto-hit on crits, just the extra damage.

you'd have to confirm the non 20 crit to do regular damage, otherwise its just autohit on a 20