Ranged Ranger revisited

[Tamorand]

Hello all,

I am making an attempt at rerolling a Ranged Ranger(once I hit 1750...almost there!!)

My questions are this if you don't mind helping me out a touch.

Assumptions are:
Elf 32 point bulid
Will NOT splash any other classes...ever
Exclusively Ranged as much as possible
Arcane Archer up to +3 or +4(maybe 5 not sure yet)
Solo as much as possible(groups for the insane instances and raids)
Well aquainted with kiting practices
Willing to farm for gear/books...etc

Questions:

DEX or STR

If DEX -
Weapon Finess?
How much Dex is too much?
When do I stop adding DEX and concentrate on STR or do I ever stop?

If STR -
Why?
What is an appropriate amount of DEX if STR is my focus?
Should I be balanced or heavy on which side?


I am looking for a Feats list as well - What feats to apply at what level
I can handle the Skills and such but the Feats for an EXCLUSIVELY Ranged char for absolute Maximum Ranged Efficiency.
Efficiency = DPS + approprate utility

What I've come up with so far as a general Ranged(primary) build.

This is my opinion on what I think would be an appropriate linear bulid that also uses the most logical enhancements.

Now I would LOVE some critisim on what works and what doesnt.

the Planner only goes to 16(I'm curious what my choices would be for the last 4 levels)

So please tear this build up and lets find what would be the best route.

Some of my more notable choices are.

Arcane Archer +4 Arrows
STR on Level Up
NO Shot on the Run
I didn't MAX out the +Attack Enhancements (I'm curious if that was a good choice)
Favored Damage Maxed
Both Resistence Enhance Maxed total of +6 vs enchantments +3 vs fav enemy
Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot, UMD

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Tamorand 
Level 16 Neutral Good Elf Male
(16 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 180
Spell Points: 280 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 16
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            18                    23
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               4                     6
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  7                    23
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  6                    22
Listen                0                     2
Move Silently         8                    24
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                  4                    20
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                4.5                   6.5
Use Magic Device      1                     8

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Attack I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elf Ranged Damage II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows


Level 11 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance III
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows


Level 16 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance III

Tam

[Ganak]

I went max dex on my elf archer (18 ranger/2 fighter) --20 dex--and 15 str. Currently, have a 25 str with a +3 tome, 27 with rams might). I'm happy with this.

Weapon finesse? As a pure archer, I avoided it. The only times I'm pulling weapons out is dual vorpals in a few close quarter spots in the game or other rare situations.

Feats? I have currently (with 2 extra from two levels of fighter):
Toughness x 2
Weapon Focus: Ranged
Dodge
Mobility
Shot on the run
IC:R
PBS


My build philosophy was to build an archer that could hit anything at any level of difficulty. Thus my feat choices and max dex build.

A strength of a great ranged build is damage output vs resources consumed. Basically, never taking damage by keeping mobs at a distance. Gotta move constantly and quickly (high jump, balance). That led me down the sotr feat line, but that is very feat expensive for a pure ranger.

Redoing my build, I'd drop wis to 8 (with tomes, +6 wis item and shroud sp item would be more than enough sp). I started with a 13 con, I'd have shifted the wis points here. I have at least one toughness feat accross all of my characters as I just believe hp are so important. As a ranged, once you get improved precise shot to go with many shot, you will pull crazy agro. Moving and jumping around, nevertheless you will get cornered and beat on occasionally. It's necessary to be able to take a few blows.

I'm currently agonizing whether to completely reroll my 14/2 ranger in favor of a pure or wait until respec. Gah!

[Tamorand]

Thats pretty good advice Thanks a ton!

Im still curious if anyone has any arguments for a STR based ranged char or if it's even viable and if it IS viable what are the PRO's CON's ?

[Missing_Minds]

Elf, pure ranger.

With gear and such I've actually got my Str at 30 and my Dex at 32, Wis at 20 (maybe higher... can't remember if I bothered with tomes or not)

Going pure dex means sure you can hit.. but you'll do squat for damage. Having stats of this means you can go twf or range without any issues and make the hits hurt. I have been using weakening puncturing short swords for my primary melee weapons, and pg transmuters when in doubt. Really should stick on some vorpals though just to even it out, and I'm going to have to rethink some good generic weapons for the multi purpose.

The drawback of doing this to your dex... your AC won't be as high. Big deal if you are sticking with range only. You should be out of range of their melee attacks. (who am I kidding, be ready to be hit. You can't outrun them for long.)

[Monkeytoe]

I thought I read:

Ranger, willing to farm

And I knew right there we was talkin' 'bout uh archerin-type ranger... I mean, a stabbin-type ranger would jus kill stuff, to heck with all that tillin and grubbin in the dirt!

[Tamorand]

I thought I read:

Ranger, willing to farm

And I knew right there we was talkin' 'bout uh archerin-type ranger... I mean, a stabbin-type ranger would jus kill stuff, to heck with all that tillin and grubbin in the dirt!

HAHAH

I truly laughed out loud on that one...heheh thanks for that!

[Tamorand]

Elf, pure ranger.

The drawback of doing this to your dex... your AC won't be as high. Big deal if you are sticking with range only. You should be out of range of their melee attacks. (who am I kidding, be ready to be hit. You can't outrun them for long.)

hrm...

Now I'm curious what the premium split is..IE when I hit max level what DEX will allow me to hit 100% (given the proper weps) so I know when to stop and stack STR.

and I'm wondering whether or not to go Finess if Im going to end up with higher STR than DEX(again depending on what the proveribal Hit Cap is)

I've played a number of MMO's and most of them have a Number that when reached you will hit every monster in the game 100% of the time once you reach max level.

You would than make sure you reached that Number before focusing on any other stats and make sure you worked around that "Hit Cap"

With DDO I'm not sure what that magic # would be or if it would even be viable to shoot for as it may be game mechanics that wont allow being at 100% + to Hit.

So my question is:

Is there a Hit Cap? (ie...a Dex # that when reached you can hit with every shot 100% of the monsters in the game)
If so...is it even worthwhile to attain.

If not... what is the most efficient # of DEX in oder to not nerf your STR so much that you hit every time but do so small damage that it doesnt matter that you hit everytime?

[Monkeytoe]

HAHAH

I truly laughed out loud on that one...heheh thanks for that!

...Now If I could just get people stop laughing when I'm trying to be serious.

[Missing_Minds]

You would than make sure you reached that Number before focusing on any other stats and make sure you worked around that "Hit Cap"

Ever roll a one?

Seriously though, with my build and current stuff they have to be like uber (red named devils) and I'm moving around for me to miss on a 2. (I do not have shot on the run) And even then typically a roll of 5 or 6 will hit them.

As for a hit cap, no clue. We haven't seen mod 9 or mod 10 officially yet. But I'm pretty certain I'd not have trouble hitting in those either.

[Tamorand]

moved to OP

[tokenghost]

For a feat suggestion, I picked up precise shot for lvling up to 11, can't remember when it is available, but it makes life much easier if you have it as early as possible. Just remember to swap it out at 11 when you get it for free.

[Tamorand]

I like the idea of precise shot early on - but the only one that it would replace in this build(due to arcane archer req's) is weapon finesse -

I'm torn now...lol

I know that we are attempting a Mostly Ranged char - but as has been stated many many many times...you gotta know when to pull out your blades.

torn...

[cdbd3rd]

So my question is:

Is there a Hit Cap? (ie...a Dex # that when reached you can hit with every shot 100% of the monsters in the game)
If so...is it even worthwhile to attain.

As MM kinda referred to, there is no "100%" hit rate. A "1" always misses, making your best outlook a 95%.

One Mod 9 change to keep in mind when applying your stats, is that 'tabbing (and mouse-scanning) to find hidden/invis mobs' is going away. Spot (Wis-based) is going to have some importance. Well, some day.

My 32 elf ranger pushed dex to 16, then split the rest between str, con, and wis. I have had no probs so far - but am only at level 9 on him.
Str = a couple extra points of damage on missile fire, as well as the inevitable necessity of meleeing.
Con = hp. Nuff said.
Wis = few extra spell points, and being able to Spot before they're up close and personal.

[starfire_one]

I know that we are attempting a Mostly Ranged char - but as has been stated many many many times...you gotta know when to pull out your blades.

torn...

Hey, even Legolas had to pull out his dual fighting knives on occasion.

[Missing_Minds]

Arcane Archer +4 Arrows
STR on Level Up
NO Shot on the Run
I didn't MAX out the +Attack Enhancements (I'm curious if that was a good choice)
Favored Damage Maxed
Both Resistence Enhance Maxed total of +6 vs enchantments +3 vs fav enemy
Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot, UMD

AA is due to get more special arrows at some point, and if you are using greensteel bows, why bother with anything more than +1 unless the special arrows have pre reqs. (just a comment to help save some AP if needed)

I did the same with Str and SotR.

I'd max the bonus to hit enhancements myself. If you don't hit you don't do damage. (and the dice hate me so I have to.)

I've never taken the resist enhancements and I don't fail saves that often at all. You may want to try with and without the resists because that could save you AP again.

Hide and Move Silently are only useful if you are allowed to sneak around. No clue if you are or not.

The bonus damage to favored enemies... I don't have it myself, but I may rethink that now. Esp with the change to transmuters.

[Tamorand]

Hde + Move Silently - I think that one ends up being personal preferance...ie...Do you solo a lot? Do you get to play scout for your raids?
If not Hide and MS...Perhaps Balance and Conc? hrm

the AA +# arrows...I'm still torn about. I want to say I'll be using greensteel bows but we don't know what item's are to come out of Mod 9 and I hesitate to make any decisions since we might get more of the +1 Longbow of Awsome and Amazing and would love to shoot +4 arrorws out of that all the time...again torn.

I also speculate that due to lvl 20 coming (the standard cap to DnD) we should expect to see some amazing weapons as many of the legendary items from PnP were lvl 20ish.(crosses fingers).

Thanks for the advice on +hit - if you are endgame and have issues with hitting than I don't see a reason to not believe that I wont have those same issues.(I'm going to edit my OP with the build and move it out of the previous one. Using what we have gathered so far.

Something I've noticed about a lot of the "Let's make a Build" threads is the Enhancements don't get very much love.
I intend to make sure that it mapped out as well. Personally I think they are no less important than feats we choose.

It's busy at work so I'll be back later.

Tam

[Missing_Minds]

I also speculate that due to lvl 20 coming (the standard cap to DnD) we should expect to see some amazing weapons as many of the legendary items from PnP were lvl 20ish.(crosses fingers).

Thanks for the advice on +hit - if you are endgame and have issues with hitting than I don't see a reason to not believe that I wont have those same issues.(I'm going to edit my OP with the build and move it out of the previous one. Using what we have gathered so far.

Raid loot is legendary if not relic status as is compared to PnP.

My biggest issue with hitting isn't so much my bonus, so much as the low rolls I always seem to get. I have lost track of the number of 1's, 5 in a row, I've gotten, but I've never seen more than three 20's in a row.. 4 times to date. This is why I HAVE to have the biggest bonus I can get normally. To compensate for !#$#!$#$ dice that would have ordinarily been crushed to shatter fragments by a hammer.

[spifflove]

Thats pretty good advice Thanks a ton!

Im still curious if anyone has any arguments for a STR based ranged char or if it's even viable and if it IS viable what are the PRO's CON's ?

18 str plus level ups
20 dex
Rest are dump stats

[GlassCannon]

Is there a Hit Cap? (ie...a Dex # that when reached you can hit with every shot 100% of the monsters in the game)
If so...is it even worthwhile to attain.

Halfling, maxed DEX(I went Repeater)... Shroud tier 3 Radiance Fire Escalation Material(+6 CON, +1 and +2 exceptional DEX, +2 Exceptional CON) weapon, +6 item...

I think you can hit 42.

20+2(tome)+4(levels)+3 Ranger Enhance + 2 Halfling Enhance+3 Exceptional +6 item
You'll hit 40... and with Favored Enemies on everything with a high AC and a Shroud bow/repeater, stacked with Weapon Focus Ranged... you won't have any trouble hitting anything in the game I'd suspect, except only those "Exploit" builds in the brawl area that hit 108 AC.

To-hit
Bab16+20 DEX +2 Enhancement +5 Weapon +1 Feat = +43 in antimagic. Throw bard Songs in there for +51, GH on top of that for +55, Recitation, +5, Haste +58, Sneak 5(Tharne's, at ridiculously close range for no apparent explicable reason other than the devs seem incapable of understanding what Blindside Sniping is) for +63... you get the picture. The attack progression STARTS there. Many attack progressions end lower.