Sorcerer for DUO questing

[jettmorrison]

Hello-
I am attempting to build a basic 28 pt. Human Sorc for DUO play. My companion is building a Drow TWF BattleCleric (dex based, weapon finesse etc.). We are not power-gamers and would consider ourselves slow dungeon crawlers that are heavily reliant on tactics, strategy, and group synergy. We plan to run content that is at our level and lower. That also means we are not planning to use Tomes, uber gear, etc. This is for fun and for experience sake, however, I need a bit of advice. Thank you for taking the time to read this dissertation.

AREAS OF CONCERN/QUESTION:
1. STATS- I min/maxed this build. Is that the right course to take? Did I overeach for CON sake? I don't really have a reference about CON vs. DEX for a Sorc. Am I just killing some other ability that I don't know about by min/max'ing this guy? I could, go CON 14, INT 14, and get more skill points. However, I'm losing roughly 20 HP end game. What should I do??? HELP!!!!
2. FEATS- Regarding HP again, I took Toughness at 1. I feel that HPs are going to be crucial. Would pulling back my CON a bit and puting more into DEX help out my AC enough to even make it worth it? Or should I, as planned, go all CON/CHA?
3. MULTI-CLASS/SKILL POINTS- I took Bard at 1; we decided that healing wand capability is absolutely essential for my Sorc. I could just as easily have taken Cleric, Ranger etc. IMO, having the "Oh S__T" ability of Fascinate, even though it won't hit alot, might be nice. Can someone look at my perform skill and see if it's anywhere close to enough. I also chose Bard because philosophically, I like the innate synergy of Sorc/Bard. BUT...what does this mean for UMD? Should I still invest in UMD? What should I be looking to reach end game UMD? Can I spare some skill points for perform/concentration/jump blah blah? Can someone please look at my skills and tell me if I'm even in the correct ballpark.
4. GENERAL- We decided that Warforged don't fit our playstyle. So that's not really the advice I'm looking for.
5. GENERAL- We also decided to forgo any Rogue skills. We'll just lose out on some content/chests, and will run past traps. (This will be hard but we feel we need to invest as much as possible in our main classes.)
6. GENERAL- We are both limited to 28 pt. builds.
7. SPELLS- I believe I took a standard spell selection. Can someone review it for me?
8. ENHANCEMENTS- Wanted to invest in FIRE/COLD mainly. The rest, I'm not sure about. (I also had to spend a few enhancement points just to spend them.)
================================================== ===========================

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Lanador
Level 16 Neutral Good Human Male
(15 Sorcerer / 1 Bard)
Hit Points: 172
Spell Points: 1647

BAB: 7/7/12
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 6
Will: 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 18 26

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16) (Level 16)
Balance -1 -1 -1
Bluff 4 8 8
Concentration 7 9 9
Diplomacy 8 13 14
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 4 8 8
Heal 0 0 0
Hide -1 -1 -1
Intimidate 4 8 8
Jump 3 11 11
Listen 0 0 0
Move Silently 0 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 8 12 13
Repair 0 0 0
Search 0 0 0
Spot 1 1 1
Swim -1 -1 -1
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 24.5 24.5

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
Enhancement: Bard Diplomacy I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I

Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (1): Burning Hands
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I

Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements I

Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Web
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II

Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (2): Scorching Ray
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Ennergy of the Dragonblooded II

Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II

Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (3): Fireball
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III

Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire

Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Phantasmal Killer
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II

Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Hold Monster
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II

Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (3): Protection From Energy
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Cone of Cold
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III

Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III

Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (6): Greater Heroism

Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV

Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (6): Disintegrate
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements III

[jettmorrison]

If I were to change my initial abilities (less min/maxed, higher INT etc.). I would end up with something along the lines of these skill, saving throws. It's obviously quite an improvement, however, the HPs are reduced by 16.


BAB: 7/7/12
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 6
Will: 19

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16) (Level 16)
Strength 8 8 8
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 14 14 14
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 18 22 26

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16) (Level 16)
Balance 3 3 3
Bluff 4 8 8
Concentration 6 13 13
Diplomacy 8 13 14
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 4 8 8
Heal 1 1 1
Hide -1 -1 -1
Intimidate 4 8 8
Jump 3 15 15
Listen 2 2 2
Move Silently 0 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 8 16 17
Repair 2 2 2
Search 2 2 2
Spot 1 1 1
Swim -1 -1 -1
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 29 29

[boldarblood]

Lose the barb level.

With your Human Sorc you will reach enough UMD to hit all the wands you want. At higher levels can even swap out toughness for SF:UMD. Grind out Deleras until you get a Golden Cartouche (+3 umd necklace) and get GH (either spell or scroll). Max UMD.

Your stat choice is good, no problems there.

Skills, the only 2 that are necesary I believe is Concentration and UMD. Other very nice ones would include balance, jump, spot.

Othen than that on a quick view looks good.

[jettmorrison]

Lose the barb level.

With your Human Sorc you will reach enough UMD to hit all the wands you want. At higher levels can even swap out toughness for SF:UMD. Grind out Deleras until you get a Golden Cartouche (+3 umd necklace) and get GH (either spell or scroll). Max UMD.

Your stat choice is good, no problems there.

Skills, the only 2 that are necesary I believe is Concentration and UMD. Other very nice ones would include balance, jump, spot.

Othen than that on a quick view looks good.

How quickly would I be able to use Cure Light Wands, Cure Mod etc?

So you suggest that I lose the Bard level, and possibly go with the revamped stats (for more skill points obviously), not worrying about the 16 loss HPs? STR 8, DEX8 INT14, CON14, WIS8, CHA18?

[boldarblood]

What I recommend for the Int score. Find out what skills you want/need and put just that amount into intelligence. Max your cha for sure, just enough INT to cover what you want, everything else into Con. When I have more time a bit later today (at work in a quick slow moment), I will see if I can get you math.

Others may have time to help out, but I want to see it was around 5-7th level that I started using wands. Cure Light Potions should be plenty until then (don't forget can get the free cure potions from tangle root collectibles also).

[boldarblood]

Being pure caster will be .5 per level for UMD.

So you would start with 2 points into it plus your charisma modifier

So that should be starting 6 UMD (assuming an 18 cha)
You can swap out your toughness and take skill focus umd also

If you go that way your at a 9 UMD at level 1, cure light wounds is what a 20?

For every 2 levels you get 1 more point of umd.
For every 2 charisma point you get 1 more point of UMD (on even numbers)
plus at level 5 you can drink heroism pots for 2 more umd
the golden cartouch for 3 more umd

So by 6th level
4 for levels
3 for sf umd
2 for heroism potion
3 for golden cartouche
5-7 more for charisma (start 18, 1 for level at 4th, at 6th level is it 1 or 2 for sorc charisma, +2/3 cha item, human versatility)

So anywhere from ~17-18 range at 6th level is attainable. Good enough to hit light would wands imho.

Or I completely goofed up my math. :P

[dragons1ayer74]

lol I repled to your old thread when you where thinking drow and reapeater on your sorc. I see you made some changes and most of them are good but please fit in the Maximize feat into your sorc you will not regret it and when you learn when and how to "maximize" its use you will be cooking with fire.

[jettmorrison]

Hard to do with the Character Planner but my plan was to swap out Empower for Maximize at a higher level. I have heard it said that initially, empower is the way to go because of the lower spell cost.

That heavy repeating sorcerer was way too nerfed on the Sorc side. As far as I see it, if you are gonna go Sorc, you have to go Sorc. Otherwise, it's just not worth it. But ****, having a heavy repeater wielding sorc would have been awesome. Ah...so go the compromises and sacrifices we make for this god-forsaken game.

However, I am kind of adding my own little flavor to this build; one level of bard. Should make for a bit flexibility in times of trouble and rolling with only two guys, we will definitely have more than our fair share of those. Plus, I get all healing wands which we will absolutely need, even at lower levels. We already had a few situations at level 1 where I needed to be able to heal him up while he was trying to take guys down.

For us, we wanted: some flexibility, balance, and an above average to great capability at killing things. I think we have struck it with our guys.

I dropped Con to 14, Int up to 14 for the extra skill points. That is letting me put more into concentration, diplomacy, jump, perform, and UMD. End stats are thus: (I'll probably pull back Perform a bit more and put it into UMD or Jump).

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
Balance 3 3
Bluff 4 8
Concentration 6 17
Diplomacy 8 15
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 4 8
Heal 0 0
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 4 8
Jump 3 15
Listen 3 3
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 8 16
Repair 2 2
Search 2 2
Spot 1 1
Swim 0 0
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 27

[dragons1ayer74]

A Bard Sorc has some nice synergy but you should only ever need 1 level of bard. As for Maximize and Empower you want them both 1 well placed maximized/empowered/extended spell can go a long way and is much more effecient if used the right way.

[Sweyn]

To you question about UMD, it is very helpful at endgame. My pure sorc can use heal scrolls just fine. He has a 38 umd and only fails on a 1. At mid lvl's, wands would be your best bet. You can still use them because your umdwill be pretty high considering your high Cha. This is what i have to get 38 umd

+9.5 from base
+14 from having 38 Cha
+6 from shroud item
+3 from golden cartouche
+4 from Greater Heroism
+2 from the head of good fortune
------
38 total

While some of these item you have to grind for (you said you were casual) you can still get them all but it might just take a little longer depending on how much you play

[GeneralDiomedes]

A realistic high UMD option for a Casual Duo would be

1) Pure Human Sorc, take Skill Focus: UMD feat and Human Versatility enhancement.
2) Drow 1 Bard/X Sorc - Small mana gain (I believe), loss of 1 level 8 spell

EDIT - I see this was edited since I hit reply .. still applies hopefully.

[spifflove]

I would keep the bard level unless you are a capstone nuker in which case the capstone still won't be of any use against Harry. This is just a personal preference and does not make sense from a min max viewpoint.

You will need 14 intel for max perform, UMD, and Concentration.

[jettmorrison]

thanks to all the replies. Really helped me out.

I finally decided to keep a Bard level (a personal preference decision mainly) and went with Con14, Int14. Having 5 skill points per level has allowed me to keep most of my key stats (Concentration, Diplomacy, Jump, Perform, UMD) pretty high. I will probably try to squeeze in Maximize and will also keep Empower as some have suggested.

This toon is gonna be a decently effective build that will be a blast to play.

[Mindspat]

AREAS OF CONCERN/QUESTION:
1. STATS- I min/maxed this build. Is that the right course to take? Did I overeach for CON sake? I don't really have a reference about CON vs. DEX for a Sorc. Am I just killing some other ability that I don't know about by min/max'ing this guy? I could, go CON 14, INT 14, and get more skill points. However, I'm losing roughly 20 HP end game. What should I do??? HELP!!!!
2. FEATS- Regarding HP again, I took Toughness at 1. I feel that HPs are going to be crucial. Would pulling back my CON a bit and puting more into DEX help out my AC enough to even make it worth it? Or should I, as planned, go all CON/CHA?

I play a 28pt Elf Sorcerer as my main and I refuse to reroll even though improvements could easily be made to the build. I've accumulated too much named and bound loot which is centric to the character that I have no desire to reroll and begin farming some of the nearly impossible to acquire loot all over again.

AC - it's going to be difficult to get it to a spot where there's a noticable benefit. If you're going to build it with the concept that you'll shift to AC at the endgame there's really only one thing you'll want to do: Plan for a 22-24 Dex, including a +3 Dex Tome and possibly 1dex enahncement if needed; 22 dex is fine for Mithril Chain Shirts although 24 is better for DT Leather.

The character currently has an unbuffed AC of 50 which is easily pushed into the mid 60's with a proper party. An AC like this can help tremendously in most content other then if you're trying to solo Purple Named Raid Bosses.

The only percieved "sacrifice" I made was taking the Light Armor Profecientcy feat and accepting that the max Charisma that could be obtained is not going to be higher then 34. Hardly a sacrifice in my opinion...

This is what's worn for the 50AC:
Helm: +6cha
Cloak: Stormreavers Napkin
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
Necklace: Torc of Prince De Rayium II (sp)
Goggles: I currently do not have a dedicated item for this spot as the effect from DT Armor replaced it, but I do have a GS hitpoint item.
Bracers: Caosgarde
Gloves: Seven Fingered
Belt: +6 Con
Boots: +6 Dex
Ring: Chattering Ring
Ring: Seal of the EArth
Armor: DT Leather, +5 Protection, +5 Reflex, Improved Glaciation VIII (+1AC alchemical bonus)
Shield: Fanion (+1AC Alchemical bonus)
Weapon: GS Rapier - Radiance II (+4AC, 15% fire dmg reduction)

This is the load out when I need AC. There's not much difference when I shrine or enter a dungeons other then I have a t3 GS bracers for Spell points and the Skiver in hand. After a few spells I trade out the 2 items that enhane spell points for items that give AC.

Being that I regularily "melee" (just for debuffs) I also spam Divine Power clickies when needed. To do this I swap out the bracers for 1 of the 5-7 DP Bracers I have in the character's inventory, then quickly switch back once activated.

Other then the item fitout, everything is very a-typical Fire/Cold nuking spec'd with emphasis upon Necromancy Debuffs.