Suggestions to Balance Twinking

[baddax]

It DID start that way, there was a time before auction house, mail system. Cant remember if wands were for sale, they may well not have been early on. I'm sure they had potion sales, but they were expensive.

The only way to twink then was to hand the item to a buddy, then have them hand it back to your other character.

A lot of people practice self-limitation: (not the same thing as self-mutilation) permadeath, no-twinks, gimps, all sorts of restrictions you place on your character or guild to add challenge into a game. Refusing to use any "high magic" items.. (like weapons with elemental damage proc's) can be another one.
I've heard of a guild that has characters that don't spend ANY Action points on enhancements. No AP's at all.


Starting characters at a higher level would mean that the veterans would never see the newbies, never have the chance to teach them anything. Of course those that DO want to do that still could under their own steam, and those just wanting another toon to be up at the end game as soon as possible will do that also.
I dont see a problem with letting people with high favor skip the early stuff.
There is already a skip tutorial in there, why not a skip the harbour as well?
You have gained enough experience to advance to level 6

In an ideal gameworld, they'd be new quests at all levels , all the time so there may well be a reason to go have a look back.

Is that similar to self gratification?

[baddax]

Also dont forget this is where guilds come in. If you are new there are many newbie friendly guilds that will have newer players for you to run with. Once they get some experience under their belt they can try out for a more seasoned guild if they wish.

[ShaeNightbird]

Have you heard of the phenomenon called "Bad PUG" before?

More often than not, unfortunately.

[Borror0]

Also dont forget this is where guilds come in. If you are new there are many newbie friendly guilds that will have newer players for you to run with. Once they get some experience under their belt they can try out for a more seasoned guild if they wish.

I don't know how you think that solves anything.

The fact that players are encouraged to find guilds full of sugar daddies is a proof that there a problem, but that does not address it.

[Riorik]

I don't know how you think that solves anything.

The fact that players are encouraged to find guilds full of sugar daddies is a proof that there a problem, but that does not address it.

I think this presumes that balancing twinking is even needed.

I view this issue as something you want but it's not required or needed.

It's more like the type of discussions I tend to have with my brother about DDO. We often end up discussing/re-discussing the same issues repeatedly over many months -- sometimes with new information, sometimes emphasizing different aspects of the topic (focus), often the point is to re-affirm the original analysis. You're bored and looking for something to discuss.

That's not to say the discussion isn't interesting or that some of the points are without merit. It's just, don't expect me (or most of the players that are largely ignoring the thread) to feel your sense of urgency and impending doom if (insert dramatic pause & cue the music) *something isn't done* (/drama)

[baddax]

I don't know how you think that solves anything.

The fact that players are encouraged to find guilds full of sugar daddies is a proof that there a problem, but that does not address it.

Not sure what post you were reading but i said guilds that were newer player friendly, ie guilds with newer players.

Let me give you an example me and my wife both have DDO accounts we both play regularly but are in different guilds. Why? because she prefers low to midrange content. and is by no means into power gaming. she is in a guild of like minded individuals. I on the other hand am more of a serious player and am in a more serious raiding guild. Both guilds IMO are excellent guilds but would i join her guild? no why not? because it is not my style of play.

On a side note do you intentionally read posts and twist them to what you want them to say or is it unintentional?

[baddax]

I think this presumes that balancing twinking is even needed.

I view this issue as something you want but it's not required or needed.

It's more like the type of discussions I tend to have with my brother about DDO. We often end up discussing/re-discussing the same issues repeatedly over many months -- sometimes with new information, sometimes emphasizing different aspects of the topic (focus), often the point is to re-affirm the original analysis. You're bored and looking for something to discuss.

That's not to say the discussion isn't interesting or that some of the points are without merit. It's just, don't expect me (or most of the players that are largely ignoring the thread) to feel your sense of urgency and impending doom if (insert dramatic pause & cue the music) *something isn't done* (/drama)

lol

[baddax]

More often than not, unfortunately.

Just curious but do you start your own Pugs or Joining existing ones? If you are starting them then it would be much easier to control the caliber of plaers you are pugging with via friends list and guild associations.

[Borror0]

I think this presumes that balancing twinking is even needed.

It depends on what you mean by needed.

"Must have otherwise DDO dies", no.
"It would greatly help DDO and it would be a good pick if Turbine decides to invest money into NPE once again", yes.

Not sure what post you were reading but i said guilds that were newer player friendly, ie guilds with newer players.

Then it addresses the issue even less if the players are new rather than being sugar daddies as new players will still have a bad experience when running into a an twinked character. In other words, twinked characters are still disruptive to new players' gaming experience.

Oh, and that assumes that players are willing and able to find such guilds.

Let me give you an example me and my wife both have DDO accounts we both play regularly but are in different guilds. Why? because she prefers low to midrange content. and is by no means into power gaming. she is in a guild of like minded individuals.

Then it would be a good idea to ask your wife how she feels about twinked characters joining a group of untwinked characters.

It might be interesting for you to hear her point of view.

[Borror0]

If you are starting them then it would be much easier to control the caliber of plaers you are pugging with via friends list and guild associations.

I think you need to understand the definition of pick up group. It implies that you don't know the players in the group.

If you are starting them then it would be much easier to control the caliber of plaers you are pugging with via friends list and guild associations.

I hope you don't think such a thing would help new players who probably know no one in-game.

[Uproar]

As it stands, there is a huge difference between a player fresh out of Korthos and a player who has been around for a while.

Not only is does a veteran have more skills and more knowledge about the game, but he also have loot far better than what a new player could ever dream of. The result is that some players can solo quests that takes a full party for some to complete. That is unhealthy as it makes balancing quests nearly impossible and has a potential to huge imbalances within a party.

To address this issue, I suggest to:


*EDIT to break to the chase*

OP is suggesting Turbine rapes the game and playerbase like every single other MMO has done.

Thanks, but no thanks. I have already quit all of those other games that followed this advice.

/NOT SIGNED.

[Borror0]

OP is suggesting Turbine rapes the game and playerbase like every single other MMO has done.

If you could take the seven points in the OP and point me how each will be disruptive to your gameplay, I would appreciate.

Meanwhile, don't make such baseless claims.

[baddax]

It depends on what you mean by needed.

"Must have otherwise DDO dies", no.
"It would greatly help DDO and it would be a good pick if Turbine decides to invest money into NPE once again", yes.

Then it addresses the issue even less if the players are new rather than being sugar daddies as new players will still have a bad experience when running into a an twinked character. In other words, twinked characters are still disruptive to new players' gaming experience.

Oh, and that assumes that players are willing and able to find such guilds.

Then it would be a good idea to ask your wife how she feels about twinked characters joining a group of untwinked characters.

It might be interesting for you to hear her point of view.

She has a point of veiw?

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

Borror0, after reading your suggestions and some of the comments in this thread:

1) Increase the ML of the loot dropped in each quest
I totally agree with this one. As I worked my characters up ever so slowly it was way depressing to see the gear that was dropping out of chests in the quests I was running. A “+1 set of full plate” dropping in a level 6, 7 and 8 quests is insulting.

2) Add a ML to some potions and thieves tools
I’m sure you already answered this but don’t potions have a minimum level other than Curative Potions? I am not sure I agree with this part. I mean if I get blinded in a level 5 dungeon on a level 4 character I need to use the cure blindness potion regardless of level.
Thieves Tools is a no-brainer, I am not sure why there isn’t a level on them.

3) Implement new ways for new players to make money or find consumables
I have to disagree with this one. Now the spirit in which it is offered rather I think is fine but it is a poor fix for the problem currently in game, players with high level characters can too easily make GP/PP on what they sell while they have nothing to spend it on.

4) Add more static rewards to existing quests
I don’t think you take this concept far enough.
All quests should have static end-rewards with maybe monetary rewards as well. I know that this isn’t WOW or LOTRO, so we don’t have enough quests and we have three levels of difficulty, but something should be done.
In addition if you complete an optional and get an optional chest it should be like end rewards, a list of static items with your choice of one.

5) Make static rewards static (like they once were) instead of semi-static
Haven’t been around long enough so I cannot comment on this idea directly, other than say I think all quests should give out static rewards.

6) Increase the drop rate of low level named items
I think this would be better addressed with my idea of making optional chests give a choice of static rewards.

7) Change the minimum level for newly created Green Steel items from 12 to 18
Rather than change the minimum level on new Green Steel items the minimum level should increase as you put effects on it. Tier 1 – ML 12, Tier 2 – ML 14, Tier 3 – ML 16 (or bump it up a notch if you’d like.)

Just some thoughts from a sort of casual player.

[baddax]

I think you need to understand the definition of pick up group. It implies that you don't know the players in the group.

I hope you don't think such a thing would help new players who probably know no one in-game.

Thank you for replying to a post specifically not intended to you, as i was addressing a specific comment by an obviously experienced DDO player. My comments was in regards to PUG groups and how an experienced gamer can Somewhat control who is in the pug. ie with Guild names and or friends lists and had nothing to do with a new or inexperienced player. Also as an experienced player it takes like 3 seconds to roughly determine the relative experience of players in group via cnversation or by actual gaming.

[Borror0]

I’m sure you already answered this but don’t potions have a minimum level other than Curative Potions?

I know there are a few that don't, but the comment was mostly directed at curative potions.

I am not sure I agree with this part. I mean if I get blinded in a level 5 dungeon on a level 4 character I need to use the cure blindness potion regardless of level.

It has been forever since I have been blinded without carrying a potion on my, but isn't there a duration to blindness?

Either way, my problem as more to do with potion that increase survivability (especially CSW).

In addition if you complete an optional and get an optional chest it should be like end rewards, a list of static items with your choice of one.

I don't like this one, honestly. I think that an additional chest is still a nice thing, assuming good loot drops from it (see point #1).

Rather than change the minimum level on new Green Steel items the minimum level should increase as you put effects on it. Tier 1 – ML 12, Tier 2 – ML 14, Tier 3 – ML 16 (or bump it up a notch if you’d like.)

I made a similar suggestion at some point in the thread, so I can't say I disagree. It's just a tad harder for them to code.

[Aaxeyu]

The only thing they should change, IMO, is haste pots. Remove the min level!

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

I know there are a few that don't, but the comment was mostly directed at curative potions.

It has been forever since I have been blinded without carrying a potion on my, but isn't there a duration to blindness?

Nope, no timer, just a black screen. I remember hiding in a pool for forty-five minutes until my party could find me in the Restless Isles, cause I had forgotten to swap my goggles once. Same goes for Curse and few others.

Either way, my problem as more to do with potion that increase survivability (especially CSW).

The problem however is in most low level dungeons you have soo many shrines it is only apparent in a couple quests where CSW pots become a "advantage" over the Cure pots. I personally would love to see rest shrines get removed or changed so that I have to use some consumable, ie like food and drink in a tavern.

I don't like this one, honestly. I think that an additional chest is still a nice thing, assuming good loot drops from it (see point #1).

I totally understand where you are coming from, the problem for me is that even a new player pulls 99% junk after leaving Korthos. If you are just going to have characters sell the '****' than the system needs to be revamped. By putting in static rewards plus a little plat you can at least make the rewards somewhat useful so that only 97% of the items pulled are vendored.

I made a similar suggestion at some point in the thread, so I can't say I disagree. It's just a tad harder for them to code.

Oh I agree that it is probably a lot harder to code, but it makes a lot more sense than how it currently works.
I would also suggest if there was a way to disassemble your whoops (Wanted Dorf Axe got Great Axe) you sould also add bind on aquire to Green Steel Items.

[Riorik]

I think you need to understand the definition of pick up group. It implies that you don't know the players in the group.

I think that while this may be close to the letter of the definition, if you play at all, you realize this is the "perfect world" definition and not what often happens. While the PUGs I've done in my years of playing have often introduced me to new people, it's very likely that I've met many of them previously. PUGs to me, and apparently the individual to which you are responding, do not mean the strict definition.

Insisting on such detracts from the argument.

It depends on what you mean by needed.

"Must have otherwise DDO dies", no.
"It would greatly help DDO and it would be a good pick if Turbine decides to invest money into NPE once again", yes.

Fundamental disagreement then. At best I'd interpret your conclusions as wanted, by you. Needed? Strong disagreement.

I think the entire proposed problem is actually merely a symptom of a social issue. The players encountering it are often more comfortable in a single-player-restore-game-save-after-catastrophe style of game play. The mere existence of other players introduces variables over which they have no control - the other players want things too - at it's core, selfish me-first behavior tempered with I-want-it-too.

The ones that continue playing, learn to adjust their behavior to expected societal norms. The rest work on it or retreat to their 'safe zone'. You can't force people to adapt - you can only encourage. I disagree that it's necessary or needed to give them an additional set of training wheels.

[Borror0]

Nope, no timer, just a black screen.

Well, that should be changed. If you are hit with blindness, you are screwed as as new player.

Long enough for you to think "Wow, that was not cool at all" but not short enough to not be bothered by it.

Same goes for Curse and few others.

Those are less bad, as the challenge can be build around those. It's hard to play while it by blindness, however.

The problem however is in most low level dungeons you have soo many shrines it is only apparent in a couple quests where CSW pots become a "advantage" over the Cure pots.

I disagree. CSW allows you to take much more DPS before dropping.

If you get circle by more kobolds than you can truly handle you are thankful to have CSW over CLW.

I totally understand where you are coming from, the problem for me is that even a new player pulls 99% junk after leaving Korthos.

I agree with that, but that would not be the case if they implement my first suggestion.

If they ever were to change that, level 2 quests would have the potential to drop useful gear (like Flaming weapons).