Suggestions to Balance Twinking

[unionyes]

I have bounced around a bit from server to server. I started off, more or less, on Sarlona. After filling my character slots over there, I hopped to Khyber. After more or less filling my slots there, I came to Thelanis, where I currently reside.

Part of the fun in coming to a new server (and the frustration) was having no twink gear. My fighters had masterwork weapons and chainmail. It was hard to get a hold of some +2 plate until I was able to wear +3 plate, and I had no 'glowing' weapons other than the starter Korthos gear. It was fun, and it was somewhat humbling as I realized yet again that a large stack of wands or pots for healing and a bag full of twink weapons and armor were almost as responsible for my achievements as my uber elite playstyle and sheer awesomeness.

I also can't help but notice that some of the same people who want to detwink are also lobbying for more character slots.

Hmmm.

Kill two birds with one stone, to keep the 'bird' analogies alive. Pop over to a new server. You will be untwinked, and suddenly have a whole roster of slots. BTW, 32 pt builds is a form of twinking, IMO.

Start from scratch. No friends to help you along, no gear to send, no 32 pt builds to boost you up. Just a Battleworn Chain Shirt and a dream.

[baddax]

False. The lack of content is due to the low subscription base which is due to flawed design.

If you want more content, we've got to increase the subscription base and that is done by improving the game.

Once again i disagree. Most everyone who still plays ddo will say " for all its flaws its still the best mmo out there." So i disagree that this is a design flaw. However i see it as primarily a MARKETING flaw. Or lack thereof.

[Borror0]

Once again i disagree. Most everyone who still plays ddo will say " for all its flaws its still the best mmo out there."

Active subscribers are not the only ones you should be caring about, well, if you care about growth that is.

[Borror0]

People wreck the game for me.

That's mostly what this thread is about.

When I want to slaughter everything in the zone, I have my twinkie.

If someone wants to overpower a quest, he just has to run a quest under his level or on Normal if that is so important to him.

Part of the fun in coming to a new server (and the frustration) was having no twink gear. My fighters had masterwork weapons and chainmail. It was hard to get a hold of some +2 plate until I was able to wear +3 plate, and I had no 'glowing' weapons other than the starter Korthos gear.

Most of my suggestions would help achieve that feeling even on twinked characters.

Kill two birds with one stone, to keep the 'bird' analogies alive.

That means you didn't get the whole point.

Player-initiated rules do not help player retention, and thus your advise does not help in any way.

[stoc]

Active subscribers are not the only ones you should be caring about, well, if you care about growth that is.

I really dont think that you are losing players who actually try the game in the begining of thier time on DDO. Maybe after they play awhile and get bored, sure. I think you are not getting new players because of lack of advertisement. To solve this simply keep your active subscribers happy they will tell thier friends who could start to play. They will in turn tell thier friends, etc....

Never underestimate the power of word of mouth as an advertising tool. It is often the most powerful there is.

[Borror0]

I really dont think that you are losing players who actually try the game.

Factually false. Look no further than DDO's launch or posts from new players explaining why they did not join.

[ShaeNightbird]

Active subscribers are not the only ones you should be caring about, well, if you care about growth that is.

I don't know what Turbine is doing to encourage growth. From what I've heard in other places, there seems to be an ineffctive (at best,) advertising campaign for DDO. That Escapist thing actually brought in a few new players, but I'm not sure if any of them stuck around or not. I remember that some people on the Escapist forums had never heard of DDO, but they had heard about LoTR. Asheron's Call is still around, and there are people still playing. However, no one hears much about that one either.

I would venture a guess that AC has a much smaller player base than DDO, and it's still here. I doubt Turbine will do away with DDO entirely. I also think there are behind the scenes issues that we, the player base, have little or no knowledge of. There've also been some real blunders that helped disenchant people. The data centre move is an example. That was a mess, but the subsequent move to the current data centre has been a marked improvement. Yes, there's still lag, but it's a lot better than the servers failing frequently the way they did before. That should never have happened, but it did, it's over now, and here we all are.

I'm not a Turbine 'insider' and have no knowledge of any potential plans for the game.
We'll see what happens when Mod 9 is released.

Bear in mind also; this is a busy time of the year for people. Graduations, summer family stuff, and and in the USA, an economy which is really lousy. People may not be spending the money on game subscriptions the way they used to, if there isn't as much discretionary income as there was before. It will probably pick up again when things get better out there.

I just think it's a confluence of external factors, leading to the appearance of doom, but no real doom is forthcoming. Ebb and flow, like anything else.

[baddax]

Im not sure that there is a problem but....... a handicapping system, similar to golf or bowling could be implemented. Not sure how it would work but could boost difficulty for twinked characters only. ie Mobs could be given a +1 to +5 to hit damage Ac etc for parties with elite players,builds. Each character in the group could be assigned a handicap and based off of the Total number in the group difficulty could be scaled up or down.

[Borror0]

Im not sure that there is a problem but....... a handicapping system, similar to golf or bowling could be implemented.

That would not fix the problem.

If you don't understand what the perceived problem is, ask question about it before denying its existence. It will be more productive.

[baddax]

why not?

[baddax]

No i understand the stated problem. Im not sure i agree that it is a problem. However i was throwing out a possible solution to the stated problem. Its like when you golfing with better golfers you get a bigger handicap to make the difference less noticabloe, and can compete on even footing with better golfers.

Ok, on second thought handicap individual players who are ranked above group players. -1 to -5 to hit saves ac etc etc.

[baddax]

That would not fix the problem.

If you don't understand what the perceived problem is, ask question about it before denying its existence. It will be more productive.

i did not deny that their is a large gap between new and elite players just that im not really sure it is a problem that needs a solution. Having stated that i offered a constructive solution. Which you stated would not work. My question still stands "why not?".

[baddax]

Heres another idea if been thinking about while working a human pally build. (Yes i know human pallys are gimped but really wanted one). One thing ive been struggling with is the BASE 20 cha for some of the top tier pally enhancements. Now with those starting stat requirements its pretty difficult to make an effective pally outside of hafling or drow. Being short on +2 CHA tomes and not wanting to spend my 1750 tome on Cha makes it even more difficult.

My suggestion is to allow class and racial enhancements to add to you base stat when deciding if you are eligible for a specific Enhancement. Notice i said enhancement not Feat. This would allow starting pallys to have a base 16 Cha +1 tome +3 enhancements= 20 to qualify for the 20 base cha need for top tier pally enhancements.

[dragons1ayer74]

Heres another idea if been thinking about while working a human pally build. (Yes i know human pallys are gimped but really wanted one). One thing ive been struggling with is the BASE 20 cha for some of the top tier pally enhancements. Now with those starting stat requirements its pretty difficult to make an effective pally outside of hafling or drow. Being short on +2 CHA tomes and not wanting to spend my 1750 tome on Cha makes it even more difficult.

My suggestion is to allow class and racial enhancements to add to you base stat when deciding if you are eligible for a specific Enhancement. Notice i said enhancement not Feat. This would allow starting pallys to have a base 16 Cha +1 tome +3 enhancements= 20 to qualify for the 20 base cha need for top tier pally enhancements.

Likley a bad idea and only further seperates the power gap. This was put in their so CHA based paladin actaully got something that a STR based paladin can't get. Allow items and now everyone gets it. As it is currently before mod 9 this is a strong enhancement on the right built paladin and I would not say that the right built current paladins are gimpy far from it.

[baddax]

Well apart from buying a +2 cha tome or hoping i find one (never pulled a plus +2 cha tome in 3 years of playing). I just dont see spend all that plat on a +2 cha tome AND starting with a base 18, or 16 +2 level up points (pretty expensive on everything but drow)and +2 tome to qualify for the top tier pally enhancement. No other class has this restriction. For example clerics can cast level 8 spells with a base 14 wis!!

[Angelus_dead]

No other class has this restriction. For example clerics can cast level 8 spells with a base 14 wis!!

No, other classes have those restrictions. In fact, paladins aren't even the only class to get the Divine Might enhancement you're complaining about!

[baddax]

No, other classes have those restrictions. In fact, paladins aren't even the only class to get the Divine Might enhancement you're complaining about!

yes, clerics have access to the same enhancement and battle clerics would DEFINITELY benifit from having this restriction lowered.

Not sure of any other class that requires a base 20 stat for top tier enhancements though.

[dragons1ayer74]

yes, clerics have access to the same enhancement and battle clerics would DEFINITELY benifit from having this restriction lowered.

Not sure of any other class that requires a base 20 stat for top tier enhancements though.

I really think that they nailed the balance on that enhancement line or like you say everyone would have it cause it wouldn't really be that hard to get.

[Borror0]

(Yes i know human pallys are gimped but really wanted one).

You are a module late (two if you consider that we know what'sa on module 9).

My suggestion is to allow class and racial enhancements to add to you base stat when deciding if you are eligible for a specific Enhancement.

The reason why it is that way is because of the way enhancements are coded. They only apply once you press accept.

The problem you are trying to describe is one that I put into the "Solved by adding ability score respec" category.

[Borror0]

why not?

It is player-made, which means it won't work.

It would be unrealistic to assume that new players will be aware of the feature, will know that it is in their interest to convince other players to use it and that veterans will be willing to use the handicap to adjust themselves to the new players' level (not to mention how hard such a feature would be to tune right).