Idea for balancing the overpowered firewall

[pumbilly]

It's an extremely powerful spell, especially with enhancements or cast with empower and/or maximize.

It makes some things completely trivial it's that imbalancing, the AI completely ignores the danger, and players get free run to run across their own firewalls or even fight in the middle of them untouched.

Also the spell makes the same shape all the time, it's a rectangular piece.. which is often cast in midair by the game interface.

Suggestion 1: Make the firewall made up of about 6 pieces of fire.. each of which falls down onto the surface separately so you cannot make a firewall in midair anymore.

Suggestion 2: Make the spell deal 2 fire damage a click to even friendlies standing inside it.. but no damage if you're near it.. so a lesser fire resistance item will keep you immune or a resist fire. This should also include monsters standing in their own firewalls.. subject to the same rules.


Suggestion 3: Make the spell MODAL with 2x options.. the second options being a ring of fire around the caster themselves. (the 6 pieces of firewall from suggestion 2, just get placed in a different spot)


Suggestion 4: Make the AI take notice of dangerous persistant spells like this and at least the intelligent monsters (look at their stat) should try and path around or at least out of the dangerous areas.

[Mhykke]

Leave it as is.

With the changes already made to firewall not stacking, it's hardly overpowered, not to mention not used nearly as much in the high levels due to many mobs being outright immune.

[branmakmuffin]

It makes some things completely trivial it's that imbalancing

Same applies to the Muckbane.

[pumbilly]

Are they immune BECAUSE of how imbalanced the firewall spell is? or immune because their natives of fire planes, and are meant to be immune?

[Mhykke]

Are they immune BECAUSE of how imbalanced the firewall spell is? or immune because their natives of fire planes, and are meant to be immune?

Immune b/c there are a lot of fire based mobs, as well as mobs that aren't fire based, just have a natural immunity, like devils.

[bartcom2000]

totally dissagree leave it as it is.... IMO

[Borror0]

If I was to change Wall of Fire, I would make the three following changes:

• No more damage for crossing it
• Lengthen the duration of the DoT
• Reduce the damage per tick

With the changes already made to firewall not stacking, it's hardly overpowered

Considering the damage it deals to non-fire immune named mobs, how can you say that?

[...] not to mention not used nearly as much in the high levels due to many mobs being outright immune.

If Wall of fire is not overpowered because the mobs are immune to it, what happens when we get a module where mobs are not immune it.

[Belwaar]

Can we nerf FoD and PK please too? Thanks.

[pumbilly]

Devils are MEANT to be immune to fire and poison, you live with it, choose a different spell... leave that fire based sorceror back in town. Get your ice spells out...

Demons are immune to electricity and poison.

Angels get immunity to acid, cold and petrification.


It's actually one of the things that's meant to balance the overall power of sorcerors vs wizards.. wizards can change their spelllist to suit.. sorcerors need to cope with the spells they have. maybe using wands or scrolls to supplement.

[Borror0]

Devils are MEANT to be immune to fire and poison [...]
Demons are immune to electricity and poison.
Angels get immunity to acid, cold and petrification.

It's going to be hard to be a Elemental Savant in Module 9.

Can we nerf FoD and PK please too? Thanks.

You mean those things with saves and SR that can be blocked by deathward?

[frugal_gourmet]

Solution: make all the high-level bosses of import immune.

Oh.
Wait.

[Phidius]

Can we nerf FoD and PK please too? Thanks.

<sarcasm>
Yeah, and Web too... why is a 2nd level spell used so much at end game, instead of the 8th level spells we should be using??

Displacement need to have it's duration reduced... I mean, it's not like those dang arcanes are casting it on anyone but themselves.

Nerf Haste, too... wait, that's a bard spell, and I still need one of those guys... OK, change it so that Haste only works on my melees, so's I can stay ahead in the kill count.
</sarcasm>

If you don't want FW, don't mem the spell. If you don't play a sorc/wiz, roll one up so you can see just how overpowered it is in the end game.

[Murgatroyd]

Unless you're fighting undead, Wall of Fire isn't that powerful.

This spell does 2d6 damage +1 per caster level (max 20) to enemies passing through it, 2d4 points of damage to nearby enemies, and double damage to undead.

I wouldn't call that overpowering even with all the metamagic feats and enhancement lines taken.

[Borror0]

If you don't want FW, don't mem the spell. If you don't play a sorc/wiz, roll one up so you can see just how overpowered it is in the end game.

Problem: Firewall is so powerful that it makes balancing wizards and sorcerers really hard to do as it deals for more damage per SP than other spells.
Solution: Bring it back in line with the other spells.

"Don't use it" does not solve the problem, at all.

[Aesop]

Instead of removingthe Damagefor crossing the plane why not make it a Reflex Save for crossing the plane.

Right now WoF has
1. Proximity DoT Effect with no save
2. Crossing Damage Effect with no save

instead maybe

1. Proximity DoT with no save
2. Crossing Damage Effect with a Reflex Save for Half Damage


Also maybe have the AI react a little better to Persistant Effects

1. Go around
2. Defensive Measures (Energy Resistance, Dispel etc)
3. Switch to a Ranged Weapon


Also I think if the rules about Cold Damage knocking down the WoF applied combats could be made more interesting... then CoC could be added to the Defensive Measures


Aesop


I like WoF but I also recognize that it is by far the most damaging spell in the game point for point. I also like Acid Fog.

[Phidius]

Problem: Firewall is so powerful that it makes balancing wizards and sorcerers really hard to do as it deals for more damage per SP than other spells.
Solution: Bring it back in line with the other spells.

"Don't use it" does not solve the problem, at all.

I think the fact that it is not universal is enough balance.

For example, in SoS I only use it when fighting Sorjek. The rest of the quest sees more use out of web, CK, haste, FoD, Polar Ray, Fire Shield, etc...

The only quests I hate to run without a Wall of Fire are the ones in the Necropolis... and the most important one (Cursed Crypt) doesn't need it.

[Borror0]

Right now WoF has
1. Proximity DoT Effect with no save
2. Crossing Damage Effect with no save

instead maybe

1. Proximity DoT with no save
2. Crossing Damage Effect with a Reflex Save for Half Damage

Making a save to avoid taking damage from crossing a wall of fire does not make much sense.

I think the fact that it is not universal is enough balance.

Disagree, because when it is useful it is too useful.

If Turbine was to release a module with no fire immune mobs, Wall of Fire would simply wrack the place. That's too much of a strain on the content developers: you must have fire immune mobs in every single dungeon otherwise wizards and sorcerers (especially if they add elemental savants) will pwn the place too easily.

[Aesop]

Making a save to avoid taking damage from crossing a wall of fire does not make much sense.

.

Of course it does. Don't you watch movies?

Everytime some schmuck gets trapped on one side of a fire and his/her kids are on the other that guy/girl dives through and almost never gets so much as a singe (Actors must have Evasion).

Also how is saving vs the damage less realistic then not taking damage? I mean in context of your suggestion to remove the damage for passing through.?.?


I figure this is a good compromise

Aesop

[Thrudh]

I don't see it as being overpowered anymore...

Against undead, yes... the difference between doing the 2nd set of Necropolis quests with firewall and without is ridiculous...

But in general, it's not crazily overpowered anymore... My wizard doesn't even use it that much at end-game... Plenty of other spells are more useful

[Phidius]

Making a save to avoid taking damage from crossing a wall of fire does not make much sense.

Disagree, because when it is useful it is too useful.

If Turbine was to release a module with no fire immune mobs, Wall of Fire would simply wrack the place. That's too much of a strain on the content developers: you must have fire immune mobs in every single dungeon otherwise wizards and sorcerers (especially if they add elemental savants) will pwn the place too easily.

Well, I think they did a great job in SoS, and there's only 1 portion that contains fire immune mobs. I don't even use FW in the ice room because

1. Giants have too many HP, and I'm not going to hang around on the bottom waiting for them to evenually melt.
2. The elemental master's Sleet Storm constantly snuffs out the fire. Not exactly the AI change that was requested, but effective none the less.