evasion sorcerer

[drachine]

so i want to make a sorcerer with evasion that can melee a little.

i am thinking of going 18/2 sorc/rogue. this way i lose only 2 DC on spells which is not huge if i carry enervation/energy drain and i gain evasion which is really nice on a caster.

i currently have a 14/2 sorc/rog, but she and she does melee a little, but she can't really that much. she usually throws stoneskin/cold shield/displacement and haste along with diving power clickies and does ok with wounding puncturing weapons.

i want to make one that can actually melee without divine power, like two weapon.

i currently have a 12/4 sorc/rogue that i want to reroll with weapon finesse and two weapon fighting and she does fine and melee, but i find taking 4 level in another class was at least 2 too many. so she's the one i want to reroll.

basically, i'm trying to get her combat skills on a 14/2 sorc/rog so several questions immediately come into play.

if i take rogue at 1st level i gain a huge number of bonus skill points which are cool and at higher levels (i know this from my other sorc/rog 14/2) allow me to stealth in areas like the subterranean, open locks and with stacking nough buffs, disable traps 95% time in vision of destruction on elite.

the 14/2 is really cool in that she can essentially do quite a bit a normal rogue can do, i don't expect my rogue skills to even be anywhere close to a real rogue, but she gets by. her disable is in the high 40s. on this toon i really don't care about disable device honestly. i would like her to be able to stealth and maybe open a few locks and call it a day and of course melee and have evasion.

the 12/4 actually surprisingly can carry her weight in groups, but the problem is the -4DCs from other class levels.

so i am wondering if there are any builds out there that people may have that are cool. i want to make a drow 14/2 sorc/rog

feats are what i am concerned about most. if i take rogue at level 1 i cannot choose a sorc feat and if i choose sorcerer at level 1 i lose a ton of skill points.

i want to have heighten, maximize, extend, empower, spell penetration and greater spell penetration. if i fight i think i want weapon finesse and two weapon fighting.

feat options rogue level 1 first
1st: weapon finesse
3rd: two weapon fighting
6th: maximize
9th: heighten
12th: spell penetration
15th: greater spell penetration
18th: extend

feat options taking sorcerer level 1 first
1st: maximize
3rd: extend
6th: heighten
9th: spell penetration
12th: greater spell penetration
15th: two weapon fighting
18th: weapon finesse

it really comes down to if i want to wait for extend until level 18 or if i want to wait to be able to fight until level 18.

anyone have any ideas or builds out there?

[Goldeneye]

Here is my opinion:
I see what you are tying to do, but I don't think that sorc/rogue is the best combo

I'm sure you have considered these before, but:


1.) Wiz / rogue mix compliments the build better
- you have the INT to max all your rogue skills
- you have tons of extra feats, allowing you to focus more on combat ability
- if you went WF you could heal yourself very well
- if you took the feat insightful reflexes, your reflex save for evasion could be very good

2.) if you went Sorc/Monk, it would be interesting
- you would get evasion, but you would loose UMD (however with your CHA you will have no problem getting a high UMD)
- you would get 2 more feats, probably Toughness, and Weapon Finesse

3.) if you really wanted the sorc/rogue combo, to be better in combat, make a "Tukaw" style build
- 12 sorc/ 2 rogue / 2 pally (WF) would give you great saves, and weapon proficiency and stuff because of the pally - you would be a much better fighter, but you loose a lot of casting power

[Delacroix21]

Wiz 14/rogue 2 builds are really awesome and you will not regret the choice. I have seen a share of WF sorc 14/monk2 builds but they have doodie reflex saves making the evasion feat not even worth it. Insightful reflexes really is a boon to the Wiz combo, and like the above poster stated you get full rogue skills which makes certain quests doable that the sorc cannot.


Check out (forget the name) Shadow Mage builds. They are allot of fun!


A Sorc14/rogue2 really is a bad combo though. Needs too many stats and gimps itself (int for rogue skills, dex for evasion, cha for casting) vs a Wiz/rog that only needs Int!


EDIT
The Tukaw builds (and those like them) are fun, but they are not real casters. They are more self healing meeles with firewall etc. as damage spells. Dont expect to land finger and the like often with those builds, but they are amazing at what they do. Depends on what you are looking for. Personally I am not too crazy about builds that can solo a raid in 2hours using a fortune in matierials, I'll just join an lfm! =)

[honkuimushi]

You don't lose DC from multiclassing. Your DC is determined by your casting stat bonus and the level of the spell you cast. Losing caster levels reduces the number of spells you have, the duration of spells and the ability to overcome spell resistance compared to a pure caster.

I will also concurr that it will be difficult getting your Reflex save high enough for Evasion to matter with a Sorcerer/Rogue.

[drachine]

well for the record my 14/2 sorc/rogue does save a lot and the evasion is worth it.

i only took it for the evasion, not really skills or anything, but i am taking you guys' advice.

i am rolling up a 14/2 lv wizard/rogue. its just easier to do what i'm trying to do at the cost of slower casting speed so hopefully i will be happy with it.

i don't like wizards in general after playing sorcs but we'll see how it goes. seems like it should be good though.

[Monkey_Archer]

for the record:
Ive seen a very effective 12sorc/2monk/2paladin THF
I play a very effective 13wiz/2rogue/1barb THF

[unionyes]

well for the record my 14/2 sorc/rogue does save a lot and the evasion is worth it.

i only took it for the evasion, not really skills or anything, but i am taking you guys' advice.

i am rolling up a 14/2 lv wizard/rogue. its just easier to do what i'm trying to do at the cost of slower casting speed so hopefully i will be happy with it.

i don't like wizards in general after playing sorcs but we'll see how it goes. seems like it should be good though.

I am a sorc guy myself, but I made and thoroughly enjoyed playing a WF Wizzie Rogue.

Of course, you probably already know this but make sure your first level is Rogue for the bonus skill points at creation. Also, in the interests of making friends and influencing people, you may want to delay taking the second level of Rogue until you have Haste.

Don't dismiss the skills aspect, either. You will of course have high Intel, and skill points to spare, so you will have the ability to get traps and that sort of thing as well. My WF Wizzie Rogue can get any level appropriate traps with ease.

Of course, after playing a Sorc you will feel like you are casting in slow motion and you will have to watch the manna bar a lot more closely than you are used to doing, but the evasion and skills are worth the trade off, especially if you are WF and can self heal to boot.

[Phidius]

If you really want a Monk/Sorc, I'd recommend an 8 starting charisma with a +2 tome and a +1 charisma item so's you can cast spells at level 1. All level ups in Dex to maximize your to-hit and reflex saves.

Strength 12
Dexterity 18
Constitution 10
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 14
Charisma 8

Feats

1: Extend Spell
3: Maximize Spell
6: Two Weapon Fighting
6: Weapon Finesse (Monk)
9: Spell Pen 1
12: Quicken
15: Spell Pen 2
16: Combat Expertise (Monk)

Reflex Save:
14 Sorc: 4
2 Monk: 3
Dex: 10
HoGF: 2 (gives you Heavy Fort, too )
Item: 5
Ritual: 1
GH: 4
Haste: 1

30 reflex self buffed. You can craft a GS exceptional dex/reflex to get a few more points out, but it should be sufficient.

Your AC will be high (can't remember the exact number, but easily in the 60s self buffed), which goes so nicely with the massive self healing.

The major drawback is you won't be using any spells with a saving throw. Just choose the damaging spells and debuffs without any saves, as you'll be just fine with Spell Penetration.

Even with all of that, I still can't get Capricious past level 6. I'd recommend going Wizard/Rog

[drachine]

it seems fine. i'm still really having a hard time adjusting to the whole wizard thing. after playing sorc's so long it seems like there is this awful delay when i cast a spell. like it goes off like more then 1/2 a second later then my sorc would cast it.

also, i have absolutely no interest in disarming traps and have not put anything beyond my 1st level of rogue into disabling traps. only skills i'm interested in boosting are hide/move silently/UMD and maybe diplomacy and maybe open locks. since these are dex/cha based skills, logically i want to be good at them. i'm figureing with decent gear i can be ok at disarming stuff. hell my 14/2 sorc/rogue disarmed elite traps in vision of destruction and she is awful. i had to pull out every stop and use every buff i could think of and go in get the old +3 int skills House Deneith potions but i got the job done. i think my disable bonus was 55 with every buff i could find.

i figure if i can hit 55 disable on a sorc/rogue i should be able to excel past that with a wiz/rogue without putting any points into disable at all.

i may take quicken just because i am used to the faster casting time of a sorc. we'll see.