Ability, Skill respecs, 32 point/drow unlocks.

[Borror0]

You do not want to see it because you want at will and that is all there is too it. I look at it in more realistic terms.

LOTRO clearly does not have an artificial timer.

If you argue otherwise, then you simply don't know a thing about retraiting in LOTRO.

Nor is either cheap by any means to the casual player.

Money is also an issue to the casual players in DDO as well.

Therefore, the costs would be comparable (assuming that 50 gold is really a significant cost at end game).

How many of your steps are still left that you put out there that WoTC will still be involved? Thought so.

I'll repeat your position: "Respecs are a bad idea because WotC may not like them."

It's an appeal to authority, or a very illogical argument.

[Quanefel]

That's pretty hilarious... that you think feat respecs don't cost anything...

100 dragonshards for feat respecs at lvl 20. At 5,000 plat for a dragonshard, that's half a million plat +10,000 and 3 day timer for a feat respec.

Would you please tell me that a wish spell in D&D costs 5,000,000 gp with a straight face?

Do dragonshards drop in chests and breakables? And didn't they announce that full dragonshards will be dropping in bundles like the fragments drop starting in mod 9? If so, getting dragonshards will not be an issue anymore. Nor do they require anyone to buy them in the first place. They can be found.

Also, we are not talking about just players at level 20 are we? I am pretty sure there might be a few people out there with less than capped characters. I'd have to check but I am almost positive.

A wish spell generally cost about 50,000 GP's to cast with it have great limits to it. Such as adding +1 to any stat. That is one wish. Changing your race, again it is one wish. Having the ability to change out anything about your character would be slightly more powerful than any wish or any D&D diety could ever do.

[bobbryan2]

Do dragonshards drop in chests and breakables? And didn't they announce that full dragonshards will be dropping in bundles like the fragments drop starting in mod 9? If so, getting dragonshards will not be an issue anymore. Nor do they require anyone to buy them in the first place. They can be found.

Also, we are not talking about just players at level 20 are we? I am pretty sure there might be a few people out there with less than capped characters. I'd have to check but I am almost positive.

A wish spell generally cost about 50,000 GP's to cast with it have great limits to it. Such as adding +1 to any stat. That is one wish. Changing your race, again it is one wish. Having the ability to change out anything about your character would be slightly more powerful than any wish or any D&D diety could ever do.

So... adding a +5 to every stat would cost... 1.5 million... so you could do that for three characters for 5,000,000 gp...

And still have enough left over to buy a boat.

Yeah... I thought so.

EDIT: And of course... by... buy a boat, I mean buy a fleet of warships.

[Quanefel]

LOTRO clearly does not have an artificial timer.

If you argue otherwise, then you simply don't know a thing about retraiting in LOTRO.

I'll repeat your position: "Respecs are a bad idea because WotC may not like them."

It's an appeal to authority, or a very illogical argument.

Sorry but your revisionist way of looking at "my' position is not based on truthfulness. Claiming some position I never made as illogical or an appeal to authority when you made up what "my" position is on the matter would be a stretching the true to say the least.

My position is that YOUR "at will" reworking of respecs is not such a good, well thought out idea.

My other position, which is actually seperate is that for Turbine to add things to the game it has to met with WoTC approval. Gnomes come to mind.

[Borror0]

My position is that YOUR "at will" reworking of respecs is not such a good, well thought out idea.

False. Wow, that was easy to refute!

My other position, which is actually seperate is that for Turbine to add things to the game it has to met with WoTC approval.

That is not a position; that's a truism.

Why you are bringing that up is unexplainable. Either it's a red hearing, or you tried to make an argument and realized it was weak and now are backing away from it. Well, there may be other answers but those seem the only two plausible ones.

Gnomes come to mind.

Never has it been stated that gnomes will not be added to the game because of WotC.

[Quanefel]

So... adding a +5 to every stat would cost... 1.5 million... so you could do that for three characters for 5,000,000 gp...

And still have enough left over to buy a boat.

Yeah... I thought so.

EDIT: And of course... by... buy a boat, I mean buy a fleet of warships.

Correction, the GP value is around 10K GP. The XP cost for most wishes is around 5K.

Of course that is assuming you are the caster. If not, a mage will ask for a high price and probably will be much more than 50K GP a peice.

Each +1 to a stat will cost one wish per +. Spread out between 6 stats is 30 total wishes, correct? Expect to pay a large amount of gold for that if you are not the one casting the spell.

[bobbryan2]

Correction, the GP value is around 10K GP. The XP cost for most wishes is around 5K.

Of course that is assuming you are the caster. If not, a mage will ask for a high price and probably will be much more than 50K GP a peice.

Each +1 to a stat will cost one wish per +. Spread out between 6 stats is 30 total wishes, correct? Expect to pay a large amount of gold for that if you are not the one casting the spell.

Yes... my numbers were for 90 casts of a wish. And yes... standard pricing for a lvl 20 wizard casting wish (if you can find one) is 1800 gp.

But comparing DDO wealth to D&D wealth is pretty stupid.

But I was pointing out that the current cost for feat respecs in Mod 9 is insane. It's certainly not insignificant like you claim it to be. I've been collecting every siberys shard I can get my hands on for the last few years and I have maybe gotten 20-30. 1/3 of the price of a single respec.

[Quanefel]

False. Wow, that was easy to refute!

That is not a position; that's a truism.

Why you are bringing that up is unexplainable. Either it's a red hearing, or you tried to make an argument and realized it was weak and now are backing away from it. Well, there may be other answers but those seem the only two plausible ones.

Never has it been stated that gnomes will not be added to the game because of WotC.

Errr ....I state my position clearly yet you somehow, amazingly claim my own words and position is false? I can see clearly that yes, I did write that but you claim it is false, because you claim so? Simply typing out the words "false" or "easy to refute" does not make it so.

My position is not my position....because you said so? How about you tell me what my position is since obviously me typing it out clear as day is not working. In fact, through any more arguements with me maybe you can just type out my responses for me, save me to trouble of doing that as well. Make my response have some spice and feeling to it if you could.

[Lorichie]

Yes... my numbers were for 90 casts of a wish. And yes... standard pricing for a lvl 20 wizard casting wish (if you can find one) is 1800 gp.

But comparing DDO wealth to D&D wealth is pretty stupid.

But I was pointing out that the current cost for feat respecs in Mod 9 is insane. It's certainly not insignificant like you claim it to be. I've been collecting every siberys shard I can get my hands on for the last few years and I have maybe gotten 20-30. 1/3 of the price of a single respec.

i used to crunch the yellow shards to make the sib. shards, did this every morning over first cup of coffee for probably six months...i got up to about fifty shards until i heard of new feat spec requirements needing bigger shards. i stopped immediately and dont even pick up the yellow shards anymore, just like i never used to....i couldnt imagine crunching whatever insane number of shards we figured we'd need just to get one shard to swap out one feat at level 20.

those things will be the new wop's lol, if they dont drop frequently...

R

[Borror0]

But I was pointing out that the current cost for feat respecs in Mod 9 is insane. It's certainly not insignificant like you claim it to be. I've been collecting every siberys shard I can get my hands on for the last few years and I have maybe gotten 20-30. 1/3 of the price of a single respec.

Even without the dragonshards, the cost of respeccing all your feats will cost around 1.8 mil gp by level 20. If you're a human fighter, it climbs up to 3.6 mil gp. So much for a negligible cost. The enhancements, skills and ability scores have not been added it! The cost will be even higher!

[Borror0]

My position is not my position....because you said so?

I think you need to look up the definition of truism and then compare it to the definition of thesis or argument.

[bobbryan2]

Even without the dragonshards, the cost of respeccing all your feats will cost around 1.8 mil gp by level 20. If you're a human fighter, it climbs up to 3.6 mil gp. So much for a negligible cost. The enhancements, skills and ability scores have not been added it! The cost will be even higher!

The plat cost isn't even the big deal.

[Borror0]

The plat cost isn't even the big deal.

I know, but Quanefel seems to think the plat cost would be negligible.

[Quanefel]

Yes... my numbers were for 90 casts of a wish. And yes... standard pricing for a lvl 20 wizard casting wish (if you can find one) is 1800 gp.

But comparing DDO wealth to D&D wealth is pretty stupid.

But I was pointing out that the current cost for feat respecs in Mod 9 is insane. It's certainly not insignificant like you claim it to be. I've been collecting every siberys shard I can get my hands on for the last few years and I have maybe gotten 20-30. 1/3 of the price of a single respec.

I imagine it would be more considering the cost of so many wishes being cast. It also factors in the XP loss that most mages are not keen on losing for a handful of coins.

Comparing DDO wealth with P&P wealth is important. DDO is monty haul campaign and I am not blind to it. Wealth generation is far, far to easy but the point is any cost attached to respecs are a non-issue. If I had it my way the cost would be increased but whatever.

Yes, I know the Mod 9 insane feat respec dragonshard cost. I was a little freaked when I saw it first hand on Lamannia. Yet, I did recall somewhere that the amount of full dragonshards dropping is being increased. Normally when you find a full dragonshard it is single. Now if I am wrong about it then yes, it needs readjusted. Not for me really, for everyone that will use it. I have no real need to respec any feat.

We also have the yellow shards that drop that strangely I see people just leaving in chests all the time. I pick them all up and ask politely if someone leaves them if they could be so kind as to pass them to me. Not that I need them but I collect and make full shards for someone who might need them. I hate things going to waste like that.

[Quanefel]

Even without the dragonshards, the cost of respeccing all your feats will cost around 1.8 mil gp by level 20. If you're a human fighter, it climbs up to 3.6 mil gp. So much for a negligible cost. The enhancements, skills and ability scores have not been added it! The cost will be even higher!

Who is going around exchanging all their feats out? A bit dramatic, ya think?

[Borror0]

Who is going around exchanging all their feats out? A bit dramatic, ya think?

Quoted for proof that you don't read my posts. I already addressed that. Look back in previous posts.

[Azdraugnor]

My position is not my position....because you said so? How about you tell me what my position is since obviously me typing it out clear as day is not working. In fact, through any more arguements with me maybe you can just type out my responses for me, save me to trouble of doing that as well. Make my response have some spice and feeling to it if you could.

Your position is not your position because it's not an opinion, it's a fact. If I said, "it's my position that we live on a planet commonly referred to as Earth", that's not an argument, it's a truism. We KNOW that WotC has to approve respecs. We're trying to devise a good system that will make them more likely to approve.
Furthermore, WotC has already approved respecs for feats and enhancements (and spells for bards and sorcerers, similar to PnP). Why would skills be any different? Abilities might make them a bit more leery, and I could certainly understanding disallowing class respecs as that could remove replay value, but your claim that WotC dislikes respeccing shows a plain disregard of the facts.

[Kylani]

As an experienced player who has been here for quite a while, I agree with your stance on this and have on multiple occasions tried to suggest that we get rid of favor rewards such as Drow and 32-point, or at least change the rewards so that they don't induce the "delete and reroll upon unlock" that you mention.

It seems that the stance of many is that they had to do it, so should you. A very poor stance, in my opinion, and one that refuses to see much past the end of one's nose.

I've even argued that this is something that may turn away new players, that someone coming in might not like this setup. I was told I was foolish for thinking such things... despite numerous people stating that was how they felt, and despite posts like yours.

Here's to hoping Turbine will eventually wake up and smell the coffee.

I just started playing the game again with my sons. We've been having a good time. I just found out about the 1750 favor, and yes, it is a turn off.

I enjoy working for favor to get extra bank slots. I enjoy working for favor to unlock drow, so I can make a new character to enjoy in addition to the ones I've made.

I hate the thought that the characters I've been working on would be better with a 32 point build and the effort I've put into them will be wasted long term. It is a very BIG turnoff, one that has made me debate if its worth it.

I play ffxi and have every job on my character and many to 75. I couldn't take certain jobs till I got one of 6 main jobs to 30. Then I could open all the jobs, and I did. I never ever felt like what I did was wasted. I've spent a lot of time levelling jobs because each job is unique and offers different advantages as main/subjob combinations.

In this case, unlocking the 1750 makes the character, no matter how much effort you've put into them, worthless because they would without doubt be better with a 32 point build.

If I decide to cancel, and I'm leaning toward it after finding out about this, it will be because of the 1750 favor to get a 32 point build that won't even be valid for that character. I love taking my time, building a character that I will use. I hate building a character knowing it will be gimp the moment I hit the magical 1750. I hate knowing there is no point experimenting with different combos because those characters will be worthless. I hate knowing my character is innately gimp compared to any other character of the same level who has already hit the 1750 favor and has a 32 point build (this in addition to the benefits that players had from having gear, tomes, plat, knowing dungeons, etc from their higher level characters - I have no issue with this, but four additional points on top of that and eventually this character's going to have to be put to sleep anyway?). The last thing I want to do is group with others and be totally gimp until I get 1750 favor.

I guess I'm glad I found out about this before investing in the game and my characters more, but I'm incredibly disappointed.

[branmakmuffin]

I hate the thought that the characters I've been working on would be better with a 32 point build and the effort I've put into them will be wasted long term.

If you consider the time you've spent playing a game "wasted," it's time to do something else with your free time.

In this case, unlocking the 1750 makes the character, no matter how much effort you've put into them, worthless because they would without doubt be better with a 32 point build.

I don't understand this reasoning. You have to get to 1750 favor with a 28-point character (or, yes, a Drow). How could you possibly get a character to high enough level for 1750 favor if the character is worthless? A 28-point character is worth less than its 32-point equivalent, but to say it's worthless is needless hyperbole.

The last thing I want to do is group with others and be totally gimp until I get 1750 favor.

This is based on the untenable notion that 32-point characters are so vastly uber compared to 28-point characters that it must like comparing a supernova to a smoldering campfire. No one but you (and the people you choose to tell) know your character is 28-point.

I guess I'm glad I found out about this before investing in the game and my characters more, but I'm incredibly disappointed.

To me, this sounds insanely childish.

[Alavatar]

If you consider the time you've spent playing a game "wasted," it's time to do something else with your free time.

I just want to debate this point.

Some people don't mind starting over and repeating content. To them, doing the same thing in a different way is fun, which is what category I place you in, Bran.

Others, though, have fun by progressing and moving forward. To them, the game is about achievement, goals, and conquests. Moving backwards or starting over to these people is not fun. I would place Kylani in that group.