Ability, Skill respecs, 32 point/drow unlocks.

[eonfreon]

I came back to post to apologize for some of my rudeness.

Partially this is due to too many different arguments and discussions because of the multiple topics of the OP.
The OP had no way of knowing how many separate issues this really is because OP is relatively new here, I think.
Ability, Skill Respecs, 32 Point/Drow issues are so hotly debated as separate points that to move forward one needs to tackle very specific points.

My specific interest was piqued for the Idea of a Quest, special or otherwise story-driven, especially as an ADDEDUM to FAVOR REWARDS that are ALREADY GIVEN.
Thus unlocking 32 point still requires 1750 Favor, exactly as before, BUT in ADDITION, and if so desired, a 28 Pointer can undergo a Quest to "upgrade" that specific character.
The only "unfairness" of such a system would be that players who had unlocked 32 already did not have that option before and thus deleted a character that might not have for this specific reason.
I think most of us can agree that it wouldn't be "unfair" enough to negate the reason for this alone.

Now as to the mechanics of such a "magical" transformation, they are very much up in the air.
How to add the 4 Points and where I don't know, although from what I remember from the OP, I liked some of his ideas to account for Intelligence Skill Points and stuff, but I don't even remember the specifics (I'm not into the actual mechanics of any implementation at the moment, more into the concept and feasiblity of it).

I am sure there may be those who oppose these ideas I've represented above and I would like to hear the opposition, as well as any comments negative or positive.

Unfortunately, the specifics I've written above will be quite lost in the ongoing discussion, because there is also the topic of all sorts of respecs floating around this thread.

Maybe I'll start my own, just to try to get my one specific comment involving one specific idea can be seen by more.

But anyway, I hope most can understand why this topic is very multi-faceted as presented; too many mechanics and different scenarios involved.

[Borror0]

My specific interest was piqued for the Idea of a Quest, special or otherwise story-driven, especially as an ADDEDUM to FAVOR REWARDS that are ALREADY GIVEN.
Thus unlocking 32 point still requires 1750 Favor, exactly as before, BUT in ADDITION, and if so desired, a 28 Pointer can undergo a Quest to "upgrade" that specific character.

Why does it make more sense that a quest reward you with this more than a favor reward?

All it seems to me, is required more time for the developers to code.

[Azdraugnor]

Why does it make more sense that a quest reward you with this more than a favor reward?

I could not agree more.

[eonfreon]

Why does it make more sense that a quest reward you with this more than a favor reward?

All it seems to me, is required more time for the developers to code.

Either would make sense. Or both.

I'm actually proposing, or perhaps re-proposing because I forget who's idea it is, that is be a combination of both:
Favor and Quest.

Reasons:
a)This way we leave 1750 Favor as is so it doesn't bother those who already achieved it.
b)Do not turn off new players who don't like having to reroll the 28 into a 32 and re-level him.
c)Does not force anyone to convert 28 Pointers if they are perfectly happy not having those 4 Extra Points because "they are just fine, thank you very much".

The only innate "unfairness" as I see would be to those who already deleted 28 Pointers without this option being available.
Perhaps some compensation could be created for those players, should they be upset enough.
Naturally, since I propose the above, I am not opposed .
And I have already "lost" my "old gang".

As far as coding:
It could be as simple as a new Quest.
Yes it would be known as the "Transform 28 to 32 Quest" LOL
But it could be a regular quest as well, stand-alone, with normal rewards, favor, etc, and perhaps an alternative goal for those who have no interest in the "Transform" aspect.
The quest would not be unlocked by achieving the Favor, only the ability to convert a Specific 28 into a 32 would be unlocked by the Favor.
Such a Quest would need a mechanism to identify any 28 Pointer and, if such was present, to allow the Option to Convert 28 to 32 to be selected by that specific character as an End Reward.

That's all I mean.

New codes would be needed to flag a Quest to Recognize 1750 Favor and 28 Point Build as a character entered.

And of course all the code to actually undergo the conversion.

[eonfreon]

Why does it make more sense that a quest reward you with this more than a favor reward?

All it seems to me, is required more time for the developers to code.

So how would you addess it?

A new Favor at a new Value?

Simply saying "ding" you have 1750 here are +4 more points if you are a 28 Point?

Any of those options are as viable as far as I can see.
And certainly easier than my proposal.
To me my proposal seems like it would PO the least people.
However, if it overly-complicates coding and unnecessarily creates more work for less value, then I am certainly open to other ideas and suggestions.

EDit:spelling

[Borror0]

I'm actually proposing, or perhaps re-proposing because I forget who's idea it is, that is be a combination of both:
Favor and Quest.

Let me reexplain:
Coding a quests solely for the purpose of adding an obstacle to upgrading from 28 point buy to 32 point buy is spending developer time for something with very little rewards. As I have said, it does not make more sense to reward a player for doing a quest than for having achieved a certain amount of favor.

Therefore, the most logical and efficient design would be "Upon reaching 1750 favor, you can create 32 point buy characters and can upgrade your existing 28 point buy into 32 point buy characters.", as the quest part is only superfluous.

EDIT:

A new Favor at a new Value?

Simply saying "ding" you have 1750 here are +4 more points if you are a 28 Point?

Either of those, though personally I lean for receiving the extra points at 1750 favor.

Requiring a quest simply adds more code for what reward exactly? Is there anything better out of that design that I don't see?

[eonfreon]

Let me reexplain:
Coding a quests solely for the purpose of adding an obstacle to upgrading from 28 point buy to 32 point buy is spending developer time for something with very little rewards. As I have said, it does not make more sense to reward a player for doing a quest than for having achieved a certain amount of favor.

Therefore, the most logical and efficient design would be "Upon reaching 1750 favor, you can create 32 point buy characters and can upgrade your existing 28 point buy into 32 point buy characters.", as the quest part is only superfluous.

Yes, completely superfluous, I completely agree.

However, that's not why I suggested it.

The method I described would seem to placate the most people.

However, I would certainly prefer what you describe: 1750 Favor "ding" Convert 28 to 32.

Just one point:
I completely agree that creating a quest solely for this purpose is completely inefficient.

However, perhaps it isn't as inefficient if it NOT the sole purpose, that in the course of creating whatever new Quests are to come, some time is spent on one of them to identify the parameters I had to describe.

Or maybe it is.

[eonfreon]

Therefore, the most logical and efficient design would be "Upon reaching 1750 favor, you can create 32 point buy characters and can upgrade your existing 28 point buy into 32 point buy characters.", as the quest part is only superfluous.

EDIT:

Either of those, though personally I lean for receiving the extra points at 1750 favor.

Requiring a quest simply adds more code for what reward exactly? Is there anything better out of that design that I don't see?

.......

Either would make sense. Or both.

I'm actually proposing, or perhaps re-proposing because I forget who's idea it is, that is be a combination of both:
Favor and Quest.

Reasons:
a)This way we leave 1750 Favor as is so it doesn't bother those who already achieved it.
b)Do not turn off new players who don't like having to reroll the 28 into a 32 and re-level him.
c)Does not force anyone to convert 28 Pointers if they are perfectly happy not having those 4 Extra Points because "they are just fine, thank you very much".

The only innate "unfairness" as I see would be to those who already deleted 28 Pointers without this option being available.
Perhaps some compensation could be created for those players, should they be upset enough.
Naturally, since I propose the above, I am not opposed .
And I have already "lost" my "old gang".

As far as coding:
It could be as simple as a new Quest.
Yes it would be known as the "Transform 28 to 32 Quest" LOL
But it could be a regular quest as well, stand-alone, with normal rewards, favor, etc, and perhaps an alternative goal for those who have no interest in the "Transform" aspect.
The quest would not be unlocked by achieving the Favor, only the ability to convert a Specific 28 into a 32 would be unlocked by the Favor.
Such a Quest would need a mechanism to identify any 28 Pointer and, if such was present, to allow the Option to Convert 28 to 32 to be selected by that specific character as an End Reward.

That's all I mean.

New codes would be needed to flag a Quest to Recognize 1750 Favor and 28 Point Build as a character entered.

And of course all the code to actually undergo the conversion.

[Borror0]

The method I described would seem to placate the most people.

It is not because someone complains now that he or she is going to complain, or even mind, if it is done otherwise.

[Azdraugnor]

One problem with having it be a quest reward is that since people don't hit 1750 favor very often, putting together a group for the quest would be hell. The quest would have to have incentives for people who had either already done it or didn't have 1750 favor yet. Unless it was a fairly easy solo quest, but if you do that, what's the point of making the quest in the first place?

[eonfreon]

It is not because someone complains now that he or she is going to complain, or even mind, if it is done otherwise.

Very true.

I've explained my proposal and my reasoning.

I certainly hope Turbine chooses at least one of those and some way devised to Convert 28 to 32 Build.
Of all the Respecs Concepts out there, this is one that I would have no problem with no matter how it was implemented.

Only thing is that I won't be able to use it on my original.
But he already lives on as a 32.
So I really barely miss him.

[eonfreon]

One problem with having it be a quest reward is that since people don't hit 1750 favor very often, putting together a group for the quest would be hell. The quest would have to have incentives for people who had either already done it or didn't have 1750 favor yet. Unless it was a fairly easy solo quest, but if you do that, what's the point of making the quest in the first place?

......

Yes, completely superfluous, I completely agree.

However, that's not why I suggested it.

The method I described would seem to placate the most people.

However, I would certainly prefer what you describe: 1750 Favor "ding" Convert 28 to 32.

Just one point:
I completely agree that creating a quest solely for this purpose is completely inefficient.

However, perhaps it isn't as inefficient if it NOT the sole purpose, that in the course of creating whatever new Quests are to come, some time is spent on one of them to identify the parameters I had to describe.

Or maybe it is.

[Borror0]

One problem with having it be a quest reward is that since people don't hit 1750 favor very often, putting together a group for the quest would be hell. The quest would have to have incentives for people who had either already done it or didn't have 1750 favor yet. Unless it was a fairly easy solo quest, but if you do that, what's the point of making the quest in the first place?

He said that we pick an already existing quest and add a the 28 to 32 reward as an aside.

But then, it raise the questions:

• Why did you bother adding that line if players are going to do that quest anyway?
• What level should the quest be? End game, low level for those who unlock it early or somewhere in the middle?
• If you put it at cap, what happens when/if they increase the cap? Do you mind the quest becoming too easy?
• Why did you take the additional time to code the "Reward for doing quest X if have 1750 favor" line?

......

You can truncate quotes to make it easier to read, the important part more obvious and take less vertical space.

[eonfreon]

He said that we pick an already existing quest and add a the 28 to 32 reward as an aside.

But then, it raise the questions:

• Why did you bother adding that line if players are going to do that quest anyway?
• What level should the quest be? End game, low level for those who unlock it early or somewhere in the middle?
• If you put it at cap, what happens when/if they increase the cap? Do you mind the quest becoming too easy?
• Why did you take the additional time to code the "Reward for doing quest X if have 1750 favor" line?

You can truncate quotes to make it easier to read and take less vertical space.

Yep, lots of good and thorny questions.

Now do you see why simply being a Favor Reward would be much better (no Borr, I'm not talking to you, you get it, as does Azdraugnor (okay Az it is ) then trying to create a quest?

[eonfreon]

So my next question is:

Should 1750 be retooled to add this; to unlock 32 Point, allow you to choose a Bound +2 Tome, AND allow 28 to 32?

Or should it be acquired at a later Favor, such as 1751?

[Azdraugnor]

Yes, completely superfluous, I completely agree.

However, that's not why I suggested it.

The method I described would seem to placate the most people.

However, I would certainly prefer what you describe: 1750 Favor "ding" Convert 28 to 32.

Just one point:
I completely agree that creating a quest solely for this purpose is completely inefficient.

However, perhaps it isn't as inefficient if it NOT the sole purpose, that in the course of creating whatever new Quests are to come, some time is spent on one of them to identify the parameters I had to describe.

Or maybe it is.

Right, sorry, I missed that. That'll teach me to post while talking on the phone.

[Azdraugnor]

So my next question is:

Should 1750 be retooled to add this; to unlock 32 Point, allow you to choose a Bound +2 Tome, AND allow 28 to 32?

Or should it be acquired at a later Favor, such as 1751?

I think that 32 point builds should be unlocked at 1000 favor, and the +2 tome at 1750 favor. As it is, the gap between total favor rewards seems a bit too large.

[OnyxBMW]

They could do a simple solo quest, akin to the Mark of the Dragon quest, either simple or complicated, with some story elements devoted into it.

It's not efficient, and I wouldn't need it, but adding story elements to the reasoning helps build a sense of purpose for why you got this upgrade.

It could, for instance, show that you're going into a ley line and the innate magic of the place transforms you (LORE OF EBERRON BE DAMNED!), or some such malarkey like that. Something simple, not over the top, but believable.

It will help sell the point. Hell, the quest in general can be used to facilitate ability respecs in general ON A LONG COOLDOWN TIMER, and can even be allowed as a "you need X favor to allow THIS SPECIFIC CHARACTER to do Y quest no more often than once every 3 days (AT BEST) to change all of your base abilities besides intellect."

That way, the quest isn't being wasted as a one-off thing, helps add flair/lore to the reasoning behind it, and adds a hotly debated feature that many people would like to see in some form.


And, most importantly, it would allow you to convert a 28 point build to a 32 point build without having to reroll the character. It could even be a 1 time a month option, for all I care, as long as it was an option.

[eonfreon]

Right, sorry, I missed that. That'll teach me to post while talking on the phone.

No problem, I figured you just missed it that's why I quoted us both.

I find that better than trying to re-word something I just said.

That's a surefire way to wind up in a discussion about the meaning of "give".

[OnyxBMW]

I think that 32 point builds should be unlocked at 1000 favor, and the +2 tome at 1750 favor. As it is, the gap between total favor rewards seems a bit too large.

Plausibly acceptable, though I'd rather Drow and 32 pointers were rolled into one unlock, if you were doing that, since drow in general are 32 point builds regardless.

That said, the 1750 favor would need an additional flair added to it. Perhaps the ability to respec abilities and/or skills on that character.