Some thoughts : extend, focuses, displacement etc

[Nick_RC]

Some thoughts for the 20 level cap on a sorc.

Disclaimer: these are from my personal experiences in the game and will be most applicable to those who mainly play end game raid heavy.

1. Extend - Is it necessary any more? At lvl 20 we will be hitting the magical 2 minute number for our important short term buffs. Haste and displacement. Given that 99% of the time you will have a bard for raids the onus is taken off the caster IMO to give 4 minute hastes. Extend seems somewhat superfluous. It will benefit web and firewall but I'm thinking that it will be unnecessary in favour of more specialist feats.

2. Displacement. I swear by displacement over blur. Seeing as we have most of our high levels twinked to the gills displacement in my mind has become more specifc in use. For example - my barbarian has in the vicintiy of 4-8 full guards + minor guards going at any one time. Displacement and blur is anti guard methodology in alot of situations. Certainly I will never lose it because their are situations where it just makes everything better. But for the low ac many guard types I will likely just stoneskin instead as that enables guards and offers damage mitigation. Similarly my sorc runs with 3 (soon to be 4 - 3 runs) concordant ops and the torq. Displacment/blur is anti sp regen. Sure situations where im taking extensive damage very fast it is invaluable but it has become counterproductive to the way I run my sorc now. Stoneskin and pro energy to mitigate incoming bad damage but im leaving the displacement off more and more now to take advantage of the sp regen.

3. Focuses and feats and races - next mod I suspect the specialised caster will be the way to go. Middle ground is likely a thing of the past in the new content.

My sorc is human and i believe that the human/drow will end up being superior next mod for many situations. The wf was one of the two(along with human) best up to the new content but Im thinking that they will lose their power. DC's will be very important on shavarath. Focuses will be very important.

Im thinking my feat line up will be this

Max
Emp
Heighten
SP
SP2
Focus(necro initially but maybe enchantement or evocation depending on prestige classes and quest formatting/mobs.)
Focus
Toughness

Toughness im not so sure on - I dont have it now but the more i think about and the more i run without displacement on full time the hp will let me run longer and do stupider things. I have never regretted my decision to play human over wf and I beleive it will be reinforced next mod with the cap increase and more dificult dc's. If nuking becomes more viable again (and i still nuke to this day its just not effective as it once was) wf will rise in power again.

4. Enervate/energy drain and trap the soul.

Running out of time but I thought id throw this out there. For the double focused sorc enervate might be the way to go over energy drain. Its cheaper and depending on the dc's will mix better with trap the soul/holds (will save) and wail/finger(fort). I think choosing targets will definately be more important next mod. Enervate might be enough. Im thinking il start out with wail and mass hold pick up trap the soul and choose targets better using a low sp cost enervate as opposed to energy drain.

Bit of a mash and there were some other points I was going to comment on but im outta time will continue when i get home tonight.

N

[totmacher]

you cast Haste on bigg? coulda fooled me

[totmacher]

although seriously, i think toughness would be a waste for a caster, maybe not a human one but definitely drow, sorcs are feat starved as is and with a min 2 item+minos+gfl+base 14ish con you should be able to hit 300 - 350 easy at level 20. 30 or 40 more hp isn't going to make much of a difference, unless you want to save an item slot. even then, if you're taking more than 100 a tick (which is basically 3 heals), then you're f'ed anyway.

[maddmatt70]

I do not disagree with your analysis other then my wf sorc can melee likely far better then a human or drow. If I have to I can pull out the old vorpal and vorpal some trash mobs down while you are still fooling around with enervating and fingering those mobs..

[Aspenor]

you should just delete biggsexy and make a useful character, like a ranger

[Nick_RC]

I do not disagree with your analysis other then my wf sorc can melee likely far better then a human or drow. If I have to I can pull out the old vorpal and vorpal some trash mobs down while you are still fooling around with enervating and fingering those mobs..

Yup in some situations that works but Il be leaving that for my battlemage whenever they release the prestige lines. WF will likely be better healers and alot more durable either way so they will still have their place.

[tinyelvis]

My sorc is human and i believe that the human/drow will end up being superior next mod for many situations. The wf was one of the two(along with human) best up to the new content but Im thinking that they will lose their power. DC's will be very important on shavarath. Focuses will be very important.

I will have to disagree here. I ran Lamania with a necro spec'd 40 charisma caster and could land no spell without first casting energy drain. On the other hand, elemental spells mauled the mobs (i.e. Polar ray, mm). If this is indicative of all Mod 9, and since a WF will land DC related spells just as easily (i.e. cast one energy drain then spell), I think DC related casters like Drow and Humans will become irrelevant.

Why spend resources on charisma when low charisma characters will perform just as efficiently. Take this one step further. If you forgo all DC related spells you can eliminate not only the need for Charisma but also spell penetration. This will free up lots of feats and action points. The WF will dominate in this realm.

This trend leads to a dumbing down of the arcane class.

[Humperdink]

So far from what we've seen of the mobs out in the new open area in Lammania, saves are very high. GH is a permanent affect, they have even higher saves versus enchantment if you examine them and read the Shavarath planar effect. I'm in agreement with tinyelvis, my testing out on the Battlefield shows you will need a high DC spec'd caster (minimum 35DC but more like 37) but I believe it goes further than that and debuffing will be required. On my Lammanian sorc I swapped out Enervation for Bestow Curse at level 4 and retained D-Door, Solid Fog, and Firewall. I replaced Enervation with Energy Drain at level 9. Yes it cost more to cast but keep in mind sometimes it took 2 Enervations to land a spell. If you decide to spec for the school of Necromancy it will also boost Bestow Curse which is a will save spell and does *NOT* belong to the school of Enchantment. My other new favorite spell is Otto's Irresistable Dance. I consider it the last resort as the mobs hit very hard and with extra high saves it can take them longer to be stopped or put down. And don't expect a high concentration skill to necessarily save you.

Evocation can be used but anything reflex based is hard to land. You can use the rays, various force based missles, and firewall. Keep in mind though the mobs have very high HP and it scales. I'm not sure if tinyelvis ran with a full group in the open area. I felt that while soloing damage based magic was feasible, way less so when the HP was scaled up for a full group. And keep in mind your mana pool is finite.


Here's what I use extend on:

Otto's Irresistable Dance- base time is 12-30 seconds, becomes 24-60 seconds. Gives you time to debuff and kill and heal if needed.

Solid Fog, Firewall- Some of the mobs have very high reflex saves but they are vulnerable to fire. It's just they have a fair amount of HP and fire resistance on. Extended allows you to crisp them with one to two casts.

Haste, Displacement- I don't have 4 Conc Ops and I like to keep my health.

Web- it doesn't land as much on the new mobs but still helps occasionally.

Suggestion/Mass Suggestion- I do still like to enchant sometimes when combined with curse and/or energy drain.

[drachine]

with mod 9, the duration for certain spells like wall of fire will be shorter even with extend and i dropped extend recently only to reacquire it because i want the following spells to be extended most of the time i cast them

web
glitterdust
wall of fire
acid fog
fire shield
displacement
haste

that's a lot of spells not to have the option to extend. i would prefer to have it for those reasons alone. some spells i run i don't want to extend like

jump
ghoul touch

and i'm sure i'm not the only one that forgets and leaves it on when i cast something i don't need it for

[drachine]

i run squishy drow sorcs around and the main thing you need to learn is where and how to cast and have an out for an escape route. this will serve you over toughness and buffing properly. we don't have room for toughness.