improve the coal chamber/pit/wiz king maps

[Voalkrynn2]

So these are the four dungeons that come to mind having a 3D space in which we must move. The 1st two are disliked by many folks, personally I love the pit quest but alas the 3D spaces are mapped in only 2D thus navigation is made more difficult.

We must traverse up and down, N/S/E/W, and backtrack across multiple levels in these dungeons as we progress towards completion.

Might it be possible to give us a 3D mapping function of these dungeons?

Here is a wonderful example of a static map of The Pit that could form the basis of giving us an improved dynamic map that actually helps in navigating the quest. By dynamic I mean it shows the blue party member dots tracking through a 3D map as opposed to the 2D representations we presently have for these dungeons.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/82681-72328/ThePit.jpg

Thanks to the individual or group that made this map!

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Can we add Tempest Spine to that list??

I think I remember somewhere that MOD9 was to include improved maps for these types of dungeons...I could've been on drugs at the time though...

[Arianrhod]

Can we add Tempest Spine to that list??

I think I remember somewhere that MOD9 was to include improved maps for these types of dungeons...I could've been on drugs at the time though...

Isn't Tempest Spine a different problem (map-wise)? I thought it shared the "outdoor areas work, indoor areas don't" issue with other quests like Redwillow, Gwylans, Sromcleave and the like. Would be nice to get those working too, but it's not quite the same as the Pit (all indoor, map works, but is essentially useless).

[Tomas_Laren]

There's nothing wrong with these maps, just the people that choose not to play them because they involve a little bit of thinking or are a little time consuming, or slightly annoying... they aren't actually that bad

[Voalkrynn2]

There's nothing wrong with these maps, just the people that choose not to play them because they involve a little bit of thinking or are a little time consuming, or slightly annoying... they aren't actually that bad

So it wouldn't be an improvement to have a 3D dungeon represented by a 3D map as opposed to a 2D map?

[Arianrhod]

There's nothing wrong with these maps, just the people that choose not to play them because they involve a little bit of thinking or are a little time consuming, or slightly annoying... they aren't actually that bad

Maybe....but there is nonetheless a bit of a gap between "not actually that bad" and "pretty good"

[Zenako]

So these are the four dungeons that come to mind having a 3D space in which we must move. The 1st two are disliked by many folks, personally I love the pit quest but alas the 3D spaces are mapped in only 2D thus navigation is made more difficult.

We must traverse up and down, N/S/E/W, and backtrack across multiple levels in these dungeons as we progress towards completion.

Might it be possible to give us a 3D mapping function of these dungeons?

Here is a wonderful example of a static map of The Pit that could form the basis of giving us an improved dynamic map that actually helps in navigating the quest. By dynamic I mean it shows the blue party member dots tracking through a 3D map as opposed to the 2D representations we presently have for these dungeons.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/82681-72328/ThePit.jpg

Thanks to the individual or group that made this map!

While I would love to have maps like this available for quests, and especially for ones like those mentioned, I suspect that the problem stems from some core coding. Right now the map probably only reflect X/Y location with no ablility to include a Z location on them. While the nice PIT map would require a z factor to locate you properly on the 2D map in the jpg above. For 95% of the quests in the game, the current mapping alogorithm is adequate and works for most. Those other 5% of the time however, which is partly why most of those quests are among the less favored to run, the poor mapping is a serious turnoff.

The point being, how much is it worth to fix the issue in terms of coding time. I frankly would have strongly preferred they do something like the above over the tweaks they did do in the preview seen on Lamannia. Those tweaks were barely useful fluff at best, but really only affected settings on current map tech I suppose, which made them a lot easier (read quicker) to implement.

Creating a fixed Isometric view of the dungeon would be real nice. It would also them to make "Hidden spots" a lot more hidden, since it would not be as obvious as it is on the current mapping tech, where you often can "see" the hidden locations and just need to "Search" the location to reveal them for the "Secret doors".

Quests that would be real useful for ISO views:
Pit, Coal Chamber, Chains of Flame, Wiz King, A number of the Titan Quests, Tempest (although that has some secondary issues with the inside outside nature), STK, a number of the Threnal quests, even WW would be nice to have ISO views of. Kobold would be nice (but since it is a linear path not really needed), Scoundrels Run has overlapping tunnels as well. The number of quests where an ISO view would be helpful is significant and not limited to just those extreme cases like the Pit and CC.

[Lerincho]

what wrong with CC and the PIT? My favorite 2 quests.

[Lerincho]

Can we add Tempest Spine to that list??

I think I remember somewhere that MOD9 was to include improved maps for these types of dungeons...I could've been on drugs at the time though...

not you B... never you

[Voalkrynn2]

what wrong with CC and the PIT? My favorite 2 quests.

Nothing but the maps could use a facelift.

[Lerincho]

Nothing but the maps could use a facelift.

Honestly, not worth the time for the facelift as this would men something else gets neglected. If you do these 4, then would have to do Restless Isle and a number of others. Time needs to be spent not polishing the game for awhile, but actually creating more activities to be doing. Whether this is more quests, raids or implementing a more intensive crafting program; such as, creating on potions, scrolls, or other various consumables.

This type of improvement would be the same as the chat improvements that were made. You know the one where you could read general chat from anywhere. Helpful? Maybe to a select few. Needed? No.

[Barumar]

Might it be possible to give us a 3D mapping function of these dungeons?

Here is a wonderful example of a static map of The Pit that could form the basis of giving us an improved dynamic map that actually helps in navigating the quest. By dynamic I mean it shows the blue party member dots tracking through a 3D map as opposed to the 2D representations we presently have for these dungeons.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/82681-72328/ThePit.jpg

Thanks to the individual or group that made this map!

I like this idea, and hope that Mod 9 heads in this direction for "Map improvements". Personally I have a bad memory for quest layouts, and really enjoy a good map. My Coa Chamber one has a lot of personal notes added to it, as I am sure this one will.

Thanks for sharing that Map! I have already saved it and fowarding it home to add to my collection of maps!

Barumar

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I like this idea, and hope that Mod 9 heads in this direction for "Map improvements". Personally I have a bad memory for quest layouts, and really enjoy a good map. My Coa Chamber one has a lot of personal notes added to it, as I am sure this one will.

Thanks for sharing that Map! I have already saved it and fowarding it home to add to my collection of maps!

Barumar

The map improvements aren't that dramatic. Once you discover them, shrines and chests will be marked on your map. There are some additional directional arrow features. Minor tinkering, nothing major.

[Voalkrynn2]

Honestly, not worth the time for the facelift as this would men something else gets neglected. If you do these 4, then would have to do Restless Isle and a number of others. Time needs to be spent not polishing the game for awhile, but actually creating more activities to be doing. Whether this is more quests, raids or implementing a more intensive crafting program; such as, creating on potions, scrolls, or other various consumables.

This type of improvement would be the same as the chat improvements that were made. You know the one where you could read general chat from anywhere. Helpful? Maybe to a select few. Needed? No.

I wouldn't classify this as polish. To me polish is more along the lines of the memorial in the graveyard. I'd consider this more along the lines of fixing something that wasn't done very well.

At a minimum these hated quests would be run more often and people would view these as less of an "augh I have to do it for reason x,y,z."

Dare I say people would appreciate and enjoy the quests as intended as a result of such a map improvement.

[Lerincho]

I wouldn't classify this as polish. To me polish is more along the lines of the memorial in the graveyard. I'd consider this more along the lines of fixing something that wasn't done very well.

At a minimum these hated quests would be run more often and people would view these as less of an "augh I have to do it for reason x,y,z."

Dare I say people would appreciate and enjoy the quests as intended as a result of such a map improvement.

CChamber run it for stone, ingredients and +2 tome end rewards (Pulled 6 from reward list)

Pit run it for a challenge, huge xp, and it's very different. Soloing is a blast.

Wiz King run it for named loot, huge xp, and because you can beat up a mummy a few dozen times. Monk soloing is a blast in here.

Tempest Spine, have only ever run this quest twice, map isn't the reason i stay away. Hate the entire quest, don't like the feel, don't like how it's run. Twice was more than enough for me.

[ghettoGenius]

Tomb of the Shadow Guard

The quest itself is fairly linear .. but the map is nearly useless due to all the submerged and twisting tunnels. I dont really mind the lack of z dimension on the maps ... this isnt rainbow six. An old map written on a piece of parchment might not reflect such things either. Just my opinion.

[Lerincho]

that's my take on it ghetto. like using the hex pages to create maps for pnp.

[Zenako]

Tomb of the Shadow Guard

The quest itself is fairly linear .. but the map is nearly useless due to all the submerged and twisting tunnels. I dont really mind the lack of z dimension on the maps ... this isnt rainbow six. An old map written on a piece of parchment might not reflect such things either. Just my opinion.

Well you never saw the ISO maps I would draw of complex's...often better than the ones the DM had. Those were my "parchments" of the day (way before computers short of mainframes could do any of this sort of thing...yah I know, old fart grognard, but I am what I am...)

Would better maps help those who already "know" the quests. Not at all. However who can honestly say they have not been in a group where someone gets "lost" and takes a wrong turn, or goes AFK for a minute without warning and then has no clue where to go? In most quests you can say, just follow the map towards us. In the handful mentioned in this thread, that is all but impossible without handholding on their run and trying to guide them over voice, or requires someone to run back.

Now SC is easy to do this. TS is not. Why? Every cave in SC is a simple in and out with no options. The Insides of TS are a complicated maze and since most groups only clean out the "normal" path, taking a wrong turn and waking up the mobs on those other paths usually results in a deader. I know that a location like ICE would be simple with a map, but oftens ends up a wicked challenge if someone gets turned and heads off the wrong way while trying to pull.

[Nick_RC]

If the same people that do the maps create the dungeons then /not signed. Id rather them actually give us some new stuff than make some maps a little easier to use.