I hope you realize...

[Strakeln]

I was never stating anything other than what your grandfather said we all did.

All I said was maybe you just need to quit....that you are expending alot of energy on something as simple as a Video Game

Go re-read your posts, that was not all you stated (it appears that later in this post, you did exactly that, and realized that your post was not as constrained as you apparently thought it was).

You should note that it requires minimal energy from me to type a few forum posts. You should probably also note that you've expended almost the same amount of energy telling me that you think expending energy in such a way is foolish. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

I have better things to do then worry about when the next MOD is coming out

Excellent! Why are you here arguing with me then? I thought it wasn't worth wasting your energy?

but I'm not joining some self rightouess campaign agaisnt Turbine cause I simply at this point don't care.

Did someone ask you to join? Is there even a campaign to join? Or are you referring to the link I posted, which was about a year old?

So if bashing people for saying what they feel like is somehow only your right and your right alone than by all means keep doing it. I never stooped to your level and named called I was simply stating an opinion.....not absoulte facts like you seem to do.....but once again....ending in the 7th grade sentence was classic....good job.

I guess I did name call....lol. But come on man......are you really freakin this ****ed about DDO??

No. I'm three posts worth of ****ed.

I'll make three posts on almost any topic you can think of. So either I'm "really freakin this ****ed" about everything, or this is just another forum with another topic on something I enjoy discussing. I'll let you decide which.

[Drwaz99]

Look, I'd love to have this discussion with you, but you're going to have to stop putting words into my mouth.

For someone who claims to have bundles of business experience and acumen, it strikes me as odd that you think the only way to get things done is to blow your lid. Anyone in possession of the knowledge you lay claim to knows there's many other approaches that are equally if not more effective.

I think you mean "...anytime recently". While I think this has little bearing on the argument, I will admit that it has been a few days. Of course, I work for a large company, one where the CEO doesn't moonlight as the developer... so perhaps my experience is more relevant...

While I'd love to be impressed with the couple little online startups you sold, I'm afraid that it really doesn't give you the business experience you seem to think it does. Not exactly a good representation of a business when it's you bossing yourself around.

(kind of annoying when someone puts words in your mouth, isn't it?)

Gratz on the MBA. I share similar qualifications. Doesn't really change the argument, does it? If you do a little research, you will find that I am one of the best known people in the game, and am known far and wide for my generosity. And once again, this still doesn't impact the argument, does it? So what is the point of all of this?

How is it that you can suggest what has already been done, something that has been proven to not work? We used to do what you suggest, before they stopped communicating (to be clear, I'm talking about the overall problem that started about a year ago, not the recent disappearances).

So let me get this straight: if Turbine stops communicating with us, we should continue on as if nothing happened, and we should avoid at all costs voicing our dissatisfaction. Sure sounds like taking it laying down to me...

A. Re-read my post. Just as you think I am putting words in your mouth, you really just skimmed or skipped over most of my post. I said blowing you lid gets you no where and the tone of your previous posts makes me think that you could possibly that of that personality type.

B. I used you hypothetical possible solution to express why I think that is the wrong thing to do, I am not putting words in you mouth, and if it seems that way, my apologies.

C. You must work for a company that actually cares about what their customers think. In reality (from my experience at least) most don't. They make decisions based off of what will make them the most money, usually I find that the customer's input means very little unless it makes them more money.

D. Implying that I started small Internet start-ups was a cute little jab. I honestly know enough about computers to say I am an above average user of Windows and Office. All my businesses were free standing, real life (instead of Internet) businesses. I just worked my butt off working going to school full time and the rest getting them going. I honestly don't remember if I slept much at all in that time period. Bossing myself around means nothing. If I sucked, they would have never got off the ground, nor would they have been bought for more than I invested. So yes, being your own boss does have it's way of showing whether you were successful at it.

E. Tarrant (I believe but don't quote me on that) has explicitly came out and said if all they were going to be is torn up after releasing info they weren't going to so anymore. Hence my statement.

F. And finally, to show you only skimmed my post. I am not laying down, I choose my battles. Nothing we can do can change anything as this very moment that will get people what they want. Mod 9 and communication. This forum was one of the worst moderated forums until recently. It's nice to see that they FINALLY took action to those that had nothing constructive to say and just decided to make every post of theirs a mockery of someone trying to get an honest answer or ask a question. Did you not see where I said that they already know that if Mod 9 isn't spectacular, it's more than likely a game killer? No, because you didn't read it (or you ignored it).

Nothing personal, but your opinion isn't shared by the majority of the people in the thread. There have been many many posts on how disappointed in Turbine we are. You know what happens then? They get locked. I am not going to spend time tying to find the upper managements emails or phone numbers (which I can do through family that works with one of their partners), becuase THEY ALREADY KNOW, and if they cared, we would have something other than Soon (Tm), VM, and SS.

My challenge to you was, do something, find something that I nor anyone else couldn't that will not hurt DDO in the long run and works on getting what we want. Good Luck. You'll need it.

[sisterjinx]

Though the OPs post makes more sense than I care to admit and does make me a bit queasy as well, I have to say that in this one case I disagree.
With the grand exodus already begun I don't think Turbine dares to make a date announcement. I don't even think they will at all. I believe that what will happen is one night the servers will go down, not so unusual, and we will get all the standard excuses. However we will come back to have updates downloading. I think they will hit us with this one as a suprise because to do any different they are going to risk losing MORE of their DEDICATED player base. So many have already left and others are planning to do so. I think ANY kind of date announcement or the inevitable disappointment to follow would be too risky at this point.
Look for this mod as a suprise and nothing else. I also believe there will be more to it than they have shared with us on notes or on the test server. So before you cancel that subscription or give your stuff away, stick around and at least see what is on the horizon. If it doesn't turn out to be something MORE than we expected or something you can live with then pack up and go but at least wait and see. I think we are in for a suprise.
(and no I'm not defending Turbine. I think that the way they have handled this Mod and their customers recently is appalling but I don't believe they are stupid enough to announce a date this time. I could be wrong but I think that would be a fatal mistake and if they do it then it is on purpose because they want to kill the game)

[soupertc]

I think maybe you should just quit or take a break for a bit if this game and the lack of the MOD or WDA's or any type of communcation is causing you the kinda grief it seems to be. I'm not a lay down kinda guy....and I'll stand up for my rights....but I have to say in the grand scheme of things DDO is pretty far down on my list of things to be taken care of. Yeah I spend $60 every 6 months...and yeah I'm a bit bored from time to time...but this whole thing is getting out of hand. When it's time to call something quits you normally get clear signs....I think you are there sir....of course that is just my opinion.

Go re-read your posts, that was not all you stated (it appears that later in this post, you did exactly that, and realized that your post was not as constrained as you apparently thought it was).

You should note that it requires minimal energy from me to type a few forum posts. You should probably also note that you've expended almost the same amount of energy telling me that you think expending energy in such a way is foolish. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

Excellent! Why are you here arguing with me then? I thought it wasn't worth wasting your energy?

Did someone ask you to join? Is there even a campaign to join? Or are you referring to the link I posted, which was about a year old?

No. I'm three posts worth of ****ed.

I'll make three posts on almost any topic you can think of. So either I'm "really freakin this ****ed" about everything, or this is just another forum with another topic on something I enjoy discussing. I'll let you decide which.

My 1st post is included.....it doesn't state an arguement. It just says what I felt. Sometimes the written word is hard to interpret from the otherside...but you sir took it as attack when it wasn't. It does seem to me you need a break......or just quit. Banging against a brickwall is just that. I'm no fanboi....but I see your post all over the place griping about the game.....it seems kinda pathectic to me. I love this game...love all the friends I made....but in the long run it's just a game to me......I'm not a rich man by any means, but the amount I spend in this game isn't that much to me. If this game inpacted my life in anyway then perhaps I would take a stand......but it doesn't. Like I said ealrier it was never about an arguement....you just took it that way in your pent up DDO anger I guess.

I think you might be better served if you argued a little less....I mean not all of us are from Kyhber so were not use to the drama. Keep on keeping on though.

[Strakeln]

A. Re-read my post. Just as you think I am putting words in your mouth, you really just skimmed or skipped over most of my post. I said blowing you lid gets you no where and the tone of your previous posts makes me think that you could possibly that of that personality type.

When the situation calls for it, sure. As you noted, it's typically not the best method. I'm a fan of the "I'm not leaving/hanging up until this is fixed" method.

I understood what you were saying. I spoke to the way of thinking ("hope you get your deposit back") and your response twisted that into making me "look like the guy that blows his lid when things don't go his way". You made no mention of the tone of my previous posts until now, instead, you stated that not having the "hope you get it your deposit back" attitude was the sole cause of your assumption.

C. You must work for a company that actually cares about what their customers think. In reality (from my experience at least) most don't. They make decisions based off of what will make them the most money, usually I find that the customer's input means very little unless it makes them more money.

Those that make decisions in favor of making more money while disregarding their customer's input will often succeed at their goal... in the short term. There's much more money to be made over the next 30 years than there will be in the next 3.

D. Implying that I started small Internet start-ups was a cute little jab. I honestly know enough about computers to say I am an above average user of Windows and Office. All my businesses were free standing, real life (instead of Internet) businesses. I just worked my butt off working going to school full time and the rest getting them going. I honestly don't remember if I slept much at all in that time period. Bossing myself around means nothing. If I sucked, they would have never got off the ground, nor would they have been bought for more than I invested. So yes, being your own boss does have it's way of showing whether you were successful at it.

So, uh, "obviously you haven't been in a corporate executive meeting anytime soon", eh?

The Internet start-up wasn't a jab in terms of what it was (a business is a business, you have my respect for accomplishing that (multiple times)). It was a response to your "executive meeting" comment (implying that you have been). I found it funny to hear, because the reality was exactly the opposite. While you can technically call a 1 or 2 person company meeting a "corporate executive meeting", we all know it's not even close to the same thing.

E. Tarrant (I believe but don't quote me on that) has explicitly came out and said if all they were going to be is torn up after releasing info they weren't going to so anymore. Hence my statement.

The communication was cut off long before Tarrant's recent post that you reference. It started almost a year ago with the death of the WDAs and has been steadily getting worse ever since.

F. And finally, to show you only skimmed my post. I am not laying down, I choose my battles. Nothing we can do can change anything as this very moment that will get people what they want.

A matter of perspective. You consider it choosing your battles because you consider this one un-winnable; I say that the only reason it's un-winnable is because there are too many people willing to lay down and give up without a fight.

Mod 9 and communication. This forum was one of the worst moderated forums until recently. It's nice to see that they FINALLY took action to those that had nothing constructive to say and just decided to make every post of theirs a mockery of someone trying to get an honest answer or ask a question. Did you not see where I said that they already know that if Mod 9 isn't spectacular, it's more than likely a game killer? No, because you didn't read it (or you ignored it).

Sure, I saw it. It didn't seem particularly relevant, and I agreed with it - so I didn't quote and respond to it. I know they know it had better be blockbuster. But by this point, we're not talking about mod 9's quality, we're talking about the lacking communication with their customers... something that has been an ongoing problem, it is not at all new.

Nothing personal, but your opinion isn't shared by the majority of the people in the thread. There have been many many posts on how disappointed in Turbine we are. You know what happens then? They get locked. I am not going to spend time tying to find the upper managements emails or phone numbers (which I can do through family that works with one of their partners), becuase THEY ALREADY KNOW, and if they cared, we would have something other than Soon (Tm), VM, and SS.

Considering that attempting to use "most of us feel this way" arguments will always get you a "less than 2% of the population comes to the forums" response, I hardly think that majority opinions in single threads qualify as anything even remotely close to a scientific measurement.

I'm not convinced that Turbine's leadership is aware of our dissatisfaction. Have any links or quotes from Turbine Execs mentioning it? (no, Kate doesn't even come remotely close).

My challenge to you was, do something, find something that I nor anyone else couldn't that will not hurt DDO in the long run and works on getting what we want. Good Luck. You'll need it.

My response to your challenge was, I can't do it without help from you and everyone else. I know, because I tried. My attempt was an attention grab, something that wouldn't hurt DDO in the long run (and arguably not even in the short run).

Look, I can come up with plenty of ideas that fit into your qualifications. Ideas aren't the problem, apathetic "ah, nothing we do matters, so we shouldn't do anything" attitudes are the problem.

I say, put your money where your mouth is. I'm willing to give another shot at getting attention to our concerns without hurting the game, are you willing to put aside the apathy and fight for the game you love?

[Strakeln]

My 1st post is included.....it doesn't state an arguement. It just says what I felt.

Uh-huh. Then below that you find a response from me, to which you responded, to which I responded, to which you responded...

Applicable definitions of argument:

- Discourse intended to persuade
- A coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion

Look, I can tell that you care about this game only enough to tell others to not fight for it and that they should quit. I understand that this effort is somehow less exerting for you than wasting that same energy trying to convince someone at Turbine to straighten things out. Thanks for doing your part, I'm certain that repeatedly attempting to talk people into quitting will somehow result in more subscriptions....

Nice plan.

[Dark_Helmet]

I don't disagree with what people are saying as much as how they are saying it.


My analogy:

I went into a fast food restaurant. I ordered something simple and ate there. I watched as some orders came quick and others were missed (guess I was lucky?). As I was eating I saw a very annoying person complaining about the speed at which they were getting her meal. She was berating them. They only apologized and finally gave her the food.
Later, I decided to order something to take with me. It seems I was unlucky as I sat there 10 minutes as food went by. I finally went up to the counter and politely asked if it was ready or did I miss them calling my number (shared fault scenario). They noticed it should have gone out and apologized - giving me a coupon for a free item the next time I came back. I also noticed this happened more to understanding people than people who berated others.

Maybe the manner in which people are posting (which is against the forum rules) or using LFMs is not right. Maybe each person needs to send an E-mail through the proper channels to express their displeasure (kind of like a letter writing campaign, but format it politely). If quitting, properly fill out the survey like a reasonable human being and not like a spoiled brat demanding something.

The support staff in-game is different than the forum staff which is different than management.

..anyone got Kate's E-mail address and someone want to put together a sane form letter?

[soupertc]

Uh-huh. Then below that you find a response from me, to which you responded, to which I responded, to which you responded...

Applicable definitions of argument:



Look, I can tell that you care about this game only enough to tell others to not fight for it and that they should quit. I understand that this effort is somehow less exerting for you than wasting that same energy trying to convince someone at Turbine to straighten things out. Thanks for doing your part, I'm certain that repeatedly attempting to talk people into quitting will somehow result in more subscriptions....

Nice plan.

I tell ya what man....I will just bow down to your vast forum intellect. I will do what most married men learned long ago to appease the women in thier lives....."Your Right." I know were not married....but since we both play the same game I thought it might apply.

[Strakeln]

Maybe the manner in which people are posting (which is against the forum rules) or using LFMs is not right.

Not sure if you're referring to me or not, but if you are, I encourage you to report any of my posts you felt were in violation. The only violations I noticed were by soupertc, but they were really pretty mild and ignorable, IMO.

I applaud your non-apathetic stance. We need more people willing to lift a finger to save their game around here.

[Maegin]

Yeah, just unsub till it comes out. :/ Easy fix.

[Strakeln]

I tell ya what man....I will just bow down to your vast forum intellect. I will do what most married men learned long ago to appease the women in thier lives....."Your Right." I know were not married....but since we both play the same game I thought it might apply.

You'll make someone a good housewife someday

No hard feelings, dude, at least on this end. You stated your piece. Know that it's not the game I'm sick of... I love this game, I don't want it to go away. I want it to grow, and continue growing... but Turbine's decision making sure makes it seem like they have different goals.

[Strakeln]

Yeah, just unsub till it comes out. :/ Easy fix.

For many, that's not an acceptable option. Many are locked in the $9.99 special, canceling their subscription for any amount of time will cause them to lose that.

It also does nothing to address the communication issue.

It will certainly work for some, though.

[soupertc]

You'll make someone a good housewife someday

No hard feelings, dude, at least on this end. You stated your piece. Know that it's not the game I'm sick of... I love this game, I don't want it to go away. I want it to grow, and continue growing... but Turbine's decision making sure makes it seem like they have different goals.

Like I said man....it was never an attack. I know this whole MOD 9 thing is a sensitve subject. I'm glad people are passionate about it....but I'm a fence rider on this issue. I can see both sides from there....call me the Switzerland of DDO if ya will. I've read your post before Straklen....I know your M.O. I have no hard feelings....but I'm still right. (that was sarcasm so we don't start again by the way!!!!)

[stoc]

Let me start by saying that I side in this little discussion with Strakeln (I got your back bro).

If you look at other games (i.e. Guild Wars, Diablo, etc) you pay for your expansions as they come out. Otherwise the game time is free. In this scenario it is up to the company when to release mods, updates, expansions, whatever you want to call them.

The way I look at DDO is I pay a monthly fee mainly to promote the development of the game. If this money is not used to do this I am being taken advantage of. With the current hold ups and lack of communication on this I think that we, as a gaming community, are definitely being taken advantage of. I understand that things happen and at times are unavoidable but to remain silent and tell your customers tough **** if you don’t like it here is the door is ****. How many other businesses would exist with this type of attitude?

Below find just one example of if you don't like it leave posts I have seen many of from the Turbine Team as posted by Tarrant at this link.

"Threats of canceling your service are not going to convince us to give out the information you want any more than politely worded requests are. We hope that you continue to subscribe and enjoy DDO, but we understand that your patience is wearing thin at this point. If you quit then we hope that you enjoy wherever you end up and that you'll return to DDO one day in the future."

In short Strakeln is correct in stating that some, including myself, are locked into a six month plan; three of them to be exact. The only reason I am not demanding my money back right now is that I like the game when it is taken care of but more than that I have a lot of friends here. But I am loosing both reasons to stick around. I am not having fun anymore as the content is old and stale and all of my friends log in very infrequently. So before all of you jump on Strakeln for his opinion, which I support, I suggest you look at what you are getting in return for your hard earned dollar. After all this is all that is being said here we are paying for something that is not forthcomming and there is 0 information about. If you are good with that fine but don’t bash someone else for finding a different conclusion.

[Strakeln]

My challenge to you was, do something, find something that I nor anyone else couldn't that will not hurt DDO in the long run and works on getting what we want. Good Luck. You'll need it.

Okay, Drwaz99, I have come up with something that will both garner attention and not hurt DDO in the long or short run... in fact, it will benefit DDO.

Start a thread asking anyone who is on the $9.99/month special and unhappy with the <current situation> to sign up to cancel and immediately renew their subscription on <specific date>. Come up with a single message for everyone to input, like "more communication please", so that it is obvious everything is connected.

The net result? Each of these players is demonstrating to Turbine that they are serious about loving this game and want it to succeed, to the point that they will voluntarily pay $5 more per month. It's likely to be noticed. At the same time, it will get Turbine additional revenue.

It's a shot across the bow with some encouragement. My challenge to you: make it happen. Shake the apathy, take this idea, and try to make it happen.

[Cjarr]

I just thank god I got in on 9.99. The $30+ I saved waiting for mod 9 is almost 2 tanks of gas!

wow...... around here $30 would get you one tank of gas- if you only have a 12 gallon tank.

So either your riding around on a motorcycle.......or you live in an area with much cheaper gasoline prices.......

Either way....I'm jealous

[Cjarr]

but if we could get 1000, I bet we'd see change immediately.

Can you imagine that executive meeting?
Tolero: "1000 subscribers canceled on Tuesday, they all gave the same reason: lack of communication."
Turbine CEO: "From here on out, I expect every dev to post three times daily on the forums."

It's one example off the top of my head, it catches their attention without hosing us out of the game. There are plenty more ideas where that came from.

I bet we wouldn't.

Seems an odd approach, such as your boycott of the forums......that would accomplish what???? save them the time and energy of having to moderate??
Maybe we could all go on a hunger strike next?????

They have lost large numbers of subscripts (not all at once, but the numbers have left) and it has really changed nothing. A mass exodus would cause most likely and quick apology and maybe a loot weekend, unless it was too large, then the game just shuts down.

Congrats on saving your buddy's car but, seriously, not that impressive.
This is a situation where essentially, there aren't a whole lot of options. We can rant and accept it, silently accept it, or quit???? And even though I'm sure you will whine and scream that I just take things laying down, you would be wrong.....but that doesn't really matter to you.

[Kaldaka]

I remember plenty of MOD updates with less than a week's notice ...

[Strakeln]

I bet we wouldn't.

Seems an odd approach, such as your boycott of the forums......that would accomplish what???? save them the time and energy of having to moderate??
Maybe we could all go on a hunger strike next?????

They have lost large numbers of subscripts (not all at once, but the numbers have left) and it has really changed nothing. A mass exodus would cause most likely and quick apology and maybe a loot weekend, unless it was too large, then the game just shuts down.

Congrats on saving your buddy's car but, seriously, not that impressive.
This is a situation where essentially, there aren't a whole lot of options. We can rant and accept it, silently accept it, or quit???? And even though I'm sure you will whine and scream that I just take things laying down, you would be wrong.....but that doesn't really matter to you.

You must have learned to argue from Quanefel.

There are options, lots of them, but without a united approach towards exercising said options, nothing will happen.

Two posts above yours, I have provided an option that does the following:
1) Lets Turbine know that as a group we are not satisfied with how things are currently
2) Lets Turbine know that as a group we love this game and want to see it succeed
3) Provides Turbine additional revenue to help with #2.

But even this will fail miserably without community support. That's right, even giving Turbine money will not work if people like you refuse to try.

Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the plus side, at least you know who to blame.

Regarding my buddy's car... hello? The point of that story was not to impress, the point was to show that if you take things laying down, you don't get results. About the only impressive thing about that story is how the service guy somehow convinced my buddy that he couldn't get his car back until the next day.

[Aspenor]

So I guess the statements Turbine made saying "new years 2009" or "around the anniversary" weren't real statements....

interesting.