Tempest Warchanter?

[Mekkah]

I heard someone the other day talking about how much they loved a build they were playing. Was a Ranger / Bard build.

Not sure if this was a "Tempest Warchanter" or not, but it had me interested.

I rolled a new toon...

Halfling, max Dex, then spread the rest out. Can't remember off the top of my head what I put into CHA. Believe I started with 24 skill points, putting them into haggle, UMD, tumble, balance and perform (and jump I think...)

Have her up to LVL 3 as 2 Ranger / 1 Bard. Notable feats are Weapon Finesse, TWF (granted at Ranger lvl 2, not taken) and Toughness.

Swinging a rapier in main hand, dagger in off hand, +11 to hit per hand.

I've tried searching around the forums for some info but to no avail.

Feedback, please? If possible, links to a similar build? I like this toon (so far) but don't want to waste time / invest resources if it's not going to work out well at end game.

Thanks

[honkuimushi]

There are 3 possible builds for a Tempest Warchanter. You need 6 levels each of Bard and Ranger, so you can go Ranger 14/ Bard 6 , Bard 14/ Ranger 6 or Ranger 12/ Bard 8. I don't think the other splits are worthwhile. Remember that Bard gets an improvement in Inspire courage at levels 8 and 14. That's why I prefer the Bard 14/ Ranger 6 or the Ranger 12/ Bard 8.


The choice comes down to this-- Are you a buffer who fights, or a warrior who buffs?

The 14 levels in Bard gives you more and better songs and 5th level spells(GH). You'll also be able to take the second level of Warchanter. On the downside, if you want GTWF you need to spend a feat and have 17 dex.


The 12/8 will get GTWF as a bonus feat and so can leave dex at 13 or 14. You only get 3rd level spells and lose your best songs. Also, in raid groups there will often be another Bard with better songs, so your Bard levels don't really get a chance to shine and you becone just another Ranger. But in 6 man groups that lack another Bard, you are a real asset. You fight just about as well as any other melee, but you also increase the damage of evey other melee. Add to that a little buffing and healing and you have a very versatile party member. And while you lose some nice songs and spells, you get an extra Favored Enemy, a full Barkskin, full Energy resists and Evasion.

There are 2 problems with all versions of this build.

One, it is a late bloomer. At lower levels if works well and at high levels everything comes together,--but in between, your TWF and spellcasting lags behind, Evasion takes forever, and it takes a long time to qualify for your PrEs.

The second is related. You're feat starved. Tempest takes 3 feats-- Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. For most builds, only Spring Attack is of any use. But Warchanter requires 2 more feats-- Weapon Focus and Power Attack. Those feats are more useful, but that's 5 feats. Right now a non-human gets 6 feats, and a 7th at level 18. You have almost no feats left over. But you're a melee with d6s and d8s for HP, isn't Toughness a good idea? And since you already have a low caster level, what about Extend so your spells last long enough to be useful? And what is a melee without Improved Critical? That's 8 feats right there, only attainable by a level 18 Human. And you still don't have room for Khopesh. If you go with a Finesse build, you need to fit in Weapon Finesse and a Bard 14 build would have to fit GTWF in somewhere or stick with ITWF.


For those reasons and more, I prefer a Human, Strength-based 12/ 8 build. Stats would be something like this for a 32 point build:

Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Chr 14

Start Bard because while both classes get 6 skill points/ level the Bard skills are more usefull, with Balance, Tumble, Haggle, Perform and UMD all being class skills only for Bard. After that, I would take 2 Ranger levels for each Bard level tring to get TWF skills and Evasion fairly early. Also, UMD really starts to get usefull around 20 so saving some of the Bard levels until later will allow you to dump a lot of Points into Perform and UMD.

I would also suggest maybe holding off on some of the Prereq feats for more useful feats early on. The judicious use of Fred may also make your life easier allowing you to take Feats that benefit you more at lower levels like OTWF and later switching them out for prereqs. With no switching, I would go something like this.

1 Extend Toughness
3 Dodge
6 Mobility
9 Improved Critical
12 Spring Attack
15 Power Attack
18 Weapon Focus

I would pick Scimitars with hand axes and kukris being used in the off-hand when to-hit is an issue.

Your halfling may work out, but you will be really feat starved and you may have to choose between Toughness, Weapon Finesse, Extend and Improved Critical if you want to qualify for both PrEs.

[maddmatt70]

14 bard 6 ranger human is the best build because you get nearly all the key feats and can also of course qualify for tempest and warchanter..