The Arcane Knight

[ArkoHighStar]

Hmmmmm spell point pool as stated above But eh....I'll mull over it a little bit.

UMD and spell point pool would be the pluses for sorc

free meta magics would be the benefit for wizard, just curious looking at the options

[rimble]

Ya in my opinion the hot multi-class option now would be WF 12 wiz/6ranger/2rog.

6 ranger> 6 paladin and wiz gets you all the extra feats. Less mana tho but if it's only for self buffing then you'll have plenty. I actually have a WF 9wiz/6ranger/1fighter that I love....only wish he had evasion.

Yeah, Ram's Might is awesome, Favored Enemies, more skill points for those Rogue skills, maybe can afford Tempest receiving the free TWF feats...all good stuff...and the Reflex Save hit isn't too bad since Ranger 6 has a +3 Reflex save advantage over Paladin 6...would have to take that -5 hit to Will tho...grumble grumble...stupid Ranger class...

[Thrudh]

Also, you should get firewall... Even a 12th level sorc casts a mean firewall... Dual-weilding khopeshes while standing in your own firewall for the win!

[Aspenor]

You'll want Extend for Haste, Displacement, Fire Shield, Fog spells, and Divine Favor...

Just saying... And someone mentioned Quicken... That is a good feat for a combat caster... You're going to want your Reconstruct to go off everytime...

I don't mind rebuffing myself more often. I understand why you guys are stressing on the meta's, but I really think this is the way I'm gonna go.

Of course, I might one day roll up a wizard/ranger/rogue variant for kicks and comparison...if I can consolidate my gear and get another slot free.

[Aspenor]

Also, you should get firewall... Even a 12th level sorc casts a mean firewall... Dual-weilding khopeshes while standing in your own firewall for the win!

hehe don't get me wrong, my guild leader nick pioneered the firewall-melee wizard build. This build is meant to be slightly different.

[ArkoHighStar]

oh your cloak slot is blank

[Rentz]

UMD and spell point pool would be the pluses for sorc

free meta magics would be the benefit for wizard, just curious looking at the options

UMD and spell point pool would be the pluses for sorc-- AND evasion with the higher saves paladin/sorc save synergy!

not sure what kind of numbers can be reached with Wizard/Ranger/Rogue (or monk)

You could consider Wizard 11 \ Ranger 9 giving you evasion (not sure what kind of saves, though), and reconstruct.

if you wanted max ranks in UMD and disable you could do something like wizard 11\ranger 7\rogue 2.

[Thanimal]

Extend is only efficient for level 3+ spells, and even then it's an even trade. With the sorcerer spell point pool I should be able to cast more often with less duration and still be alright.

Kind of a minor point, but: Extend costs 10, and therefore it is never inefficient -- the worst case is for level 1 spells where it is only a convenience (double time; double cost). For level 2 and above, it is a net saver of spell points.

[Gol]

I would personally prefer WF Wizard 18 / Monk 2 with Insightful Reflexes, myself... I don't think Pally really offers you much other than +3 unbuffed attack (that you make up for with DP clickies).

[Thanimal]

More significantly, why Rogue? It seems like it's for UMD, but with an INT of 8 and only 2 Rogue levels, along with only "decent" CHA, I don't really see how you can get a meaningful UMD score.

Without knowing your goals, Monk seems far better to me. Those 2 levels give you 3 free points of AC (2 WIS, 1 Monk bonus), better saves (although that's probably overkill), and two additional feats.

That last one might be huge, as you've already listed two key feats you may have to drop. Monk 2 brings 'em back and comes with that handy +3 AC. Then I would personally work on getting WIS to more like 18 or 20 in the end-game -- I think it's pretty doable (do you really a STR of 18?) and it means extra SP (Paladin) and extra AC (Monk). Thus Monk 2 would get you perhaps 6 more points of AC, which could be a night & day difference.

Them's my idears.

[rimble]

You could consider Wizard 11 \ Ranger 9 giving you evasion (not sure what kind of saves, though), and reconstruct..

Yeah, but really the Ranger levels aren't doing too much, it's worth giving up two of them for Rogue and access to those skills I think. 11 Wizard / 6 Ranger / 2 Rogue leaves you 1 level to play with...Ranger 7 isn't giving too much, aside from longer spell durations and some spell points, but that BaB might be nice. Wizard 13 is a few more spell points and spell slots, maybe good if you keep finding yourself wanting to load more spells. Rogue 3 might be your best bet, take it at 20 and cap off a bunch of skills.

[Rentz]

Yeah, but really the Ranger levels aren't doing too much, it's worth giving up two of them for Rogue and access to those skills I think. 11 Wizard / 6 Ranger / 2 Rogue leaves you 1 level to play with...Ranger 7 isn't giving too much, aside from longer spell durations and some spell points, but that BaB might be nice. Wizard 13 is a few more spell points and spell slots, maybe good if you keep finding yourself wanting to load more spells. Rogue 3 might be your best bet, take it at 20 and cap off a bunch of skills.

yeah, 12\6\x looks pretty nice, if wanting to do a wiz/ranger mix. lots of ways to slice it! or 11\6\3 as you say.

[Aspenor]

I would personally prefer WF Wizard 18 / Monk 2 with Insightful Reflexes, myself... I don't think Pally really offers you much other than +3 unbuffed attack (that you make up for with DP clickies).

it also brings me access to certain feats that require certain BAB scores.

wizard 18/monk 2 would only have 10 BAB....no GTWF for him.

Before I start leveling this guy I'll definitely give monk a thought....I'd still dump wisdom, but I'd gain access to Toughness and Power Attack easily....I had forgotten how feat-intensive the build was until after I threw it all together.

[Aspenor]

More significantly, why Rogue? It seems like it's for UMD, but with an INT of 8 and only 2 Rogue levels, along with only "decent" CHA, I don't really see how you can get a meaningful UMD score.

Without knowing your goals, Monk seems far better to me. Those 2 levels give you 3 free points of AC (2 WIS, 1 Monk bonus), better saves (although that's probably overkill), and two additional feats.

That last one might be huge, as you've already listed two key feats you may have to drop. Monk 2 brings 'em back and comes with that handy +3 AC. Then I would personally work on getting WIS to more like 18 or 20 in the end-game -- I think it's pretty doable (do you really a STR of 18?) and it means extra SP (Paladin) and extra AC (Monk). Thus Monk 2 would get you perhaps 6 more points of AC, which could be a night & day difference.

Them's my idears.

I do like the idea of recomping on those feats. I may substitute rogue for monk, but I'm still going to dump wisdom. AC is not going to be in this build's foreseeable future.

The only problem with monk is that I lose access to UMD as a class skill, and I was planning on UMD for constant divine power scroll usage.

[Gol]

it also brings me access to certain feats that require certain BAB scores.

wizard 18/monk 2 would only have 10 BAB....no GTWF for him.

16 Wiz / 2 Monk / 2 Fighter, with fighter 2 taken at 20. It's on my "potential" list for how to finish Paradime as well Only problem is that it loses out on level 9 spells, but I'm not terribly set on them anyway.

The biggest benefit (IMO) of Wiz over Sorc is the free metamagics. Paradime has 8 Toughness feats and over 500 HP when Madstoned. He's tanked Suulamades a couple times. Fighter 2 / Monk 2 is even more feats, and the one thing this build needs the most is HP. Don't think of Wizard being 4 more feats than Sorc (1/5/10/15), think of it as 88 more HP (Toughness x 4).

[Aspenor]

16 Wiz / 2 Monk / 2 Fighter, with fighter 2 taken at 20. It's on my "potential" list for how to finish Paradime as well Only problem is that it loses out on level 9 spells, but I'm not terribly set on them anyway.

The biggest benefit (IMO) of Wiz over Sorc is the free metamagics. Paradime has 8 Toughness feats and over 500 HP when Madstoned. He's tanked Suulamades a couple times. Fighter 2 / Monk 2 is even more feats, and the one thing this build needs the most is HP. Don't think of Wizard being 4 more feats than Sorc (1/5/10/15), think of it as 88 more HP (Toughness x 4).

Keep in mind that this isn't just a OP focused build, it's also for flavor. If I really was planning on tanking suulo...i'll bring my ranger

[Aspenor]

I'm staring at DP scrolls on the House J vendor...doing math in my head...and wondering if 2 feats is worth the sack full of divine power clickies I'd have to carry around....

/sigh

[Aspenor]

I'm staring at DP scrolls on the House J vendor...doing math in my head...and wondering if 2 feats is worth the sack full of divine power clickies I'd have to carry around....

/sigh

the more i'm thinking...the more i'm beginning to like this option...although I was mostly aiming to use UMD for divine power and race required gear...

I do already have around 30 charges of divine power on clickies from my last build like this.

edited the OP to reflect possible monk change....

[Aspenor]

I ended up going monk, I'm currently a level 3, 2 monk/1 sorcerer. I think this will be quite interesting and a lot of fun.

[Thanimal]

I do like the idea of recomping on those feats. I may substitute rogue for monk, but I'm still going to dump wisdom. AC is not going to be in this build's foreseeable future.

Since you've already started, it seems we're on to academic discussion now, for somebody else who may read this for ideas. But I want to challenge what appears to be the assumption of useless AC. With a slight rearrangement of stats, that I believe wouldn't be very harmful to the main goals of the build, I think reaching end-game DEX of 24 and WIS of 20 is doable. Thus:

Estimated AC @ 16
10 base
9 armor (DT docent + composite)
1 alchemical
7 dex
5 wisdom
1 Monk bonus
2 Paladin aura
5 Deflection
4 Shield spell
2 Chaosgarde
1 Haste
3 Barkskin potion
---
50 pre heavy farming

4 Insight weapon
3 Dodge on docent
---
57 optimally equipped

+3 aura
+2 bark
+2 Recitation
+4 Bard song
---
68 ridiculously optimistic with help from party-mates

Would that make you a tank? No. But it would provide some level of protection against the vast majority of opponents in the game. I feel one of the most interesting advantages of this sort of multiclass build is to have non-useless AC on a caster.