Attention turbine and players

[osirisisis]

First of all my credentials

I have averaged about 140 hours a month of DDO for over 2 1/2 years. Over 4200 hours of DDO lifetime. I am 32 years young. I have been a gamer for over 25 years

Overview

DDO is like organ system in any living thing. All organs work with a job to support the system to keep it alive, healthy and growing.

One of the vital organ systems of DDO I believe is the RANDOM LOOT TABLE.

Why?

The random loot table is like a lotto. When a player opens a chest or gets a end reward he or she has a chance to get something so rare and valuable that there is great excitement in the anticipation. This excitement is a major part of my "ENJOYMENT OF THE DDO EXPERIENCE". I have talked with many of the long time top end players on my sever and have expressed the idea of bringing back loot runs and loot table excitement and have gotting 95% positive feed back. I'm going to borrow a quot from harncw "I do agree that part of the allure of the game is random loot, in fact I think it triggers many of the same areas of the brain as does a trip to Vegas. (come on baby 1 more chest, daddy needs a new WoP rapier)" and vegas is the entertainment capital of the world I know... I grew up here.

This anticipation and excitement is a reason why other forms of entertainment have excelled in the example of Sport/gaming cards, lotto, cracker jacks, and of course christmas morning.

Notice in these charts at the link below that U will find that DDO population was highest when Loot Runs were at there highest. I'm not saying excitement in the anticipation in the loot is the only reason for population drop but I am say its apart of the equation.

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart3.html

I used this chart because I can not find any other charts or websites online that graph MMO population... If you can find a better source please post a link.

Back in the CO6, giants caves, and early Giant hold days it seems players were looting constantly. Loot runs ran rapid. Double, and Triple LFM for loot run quests were common place. I like to say it like this I heard a lot less complaining about lag and content 2 years ago when everyone was waiting early for one of there 8 toons to come off of ransaked so they could run CO6, gaints or pop again.



Power 5, Wounding of Puncturing, and crafting and when I say DDO take a dive.


This organ system took some what of a hit in mod 4 with +1 loot weekends.

Why?

Power 5 were the big craze and everyone want them. They were rare, but Turbine's first mistake I think was that instead of keeping them rare like at the beginning mod 4, they made them more common as chest lvl increased. With +1 loot weekends there was a large influx of power 5's, since they fell like rain, and the excitement got diluted. Another very entrusting corespondent to this was that toward the end of mod 4 population started to drop from its highest point ever or its closest correction to peak.

This organ system took a big hit in mod 6 with crafting.

I want to state now that I'm not against crafting. I think it was a great addition to the game, But I think the problem lies in that tier 3 weapons basically decreased what I would guess to be about 85% of the value of the random loot table with lvl 16 loot included and today in most cases a tier 3 weapon is more efficient then all most any weapon in the random system. Instead of crafting complementing a great random loot system it almost destroyed a weakened random loot system. I think the problem here is that crafting is so strongly over shadowing random loot or named loot that this organ started to fail. The major factor in that is that crafting is a true grind where on the average you spend X ammount of time to gain Y ammount of gear which simple has little excitement to it and seems kinda dry in my opinion. With just crafting the game is very drone (grind) and clone since everyone crafts basically the same things over all.... This lack verity and we all know verity is the spice of life.

Now I know its a natural progress that as lvl cap increases higher lvl gear should be stronger then lesser lvl gear, but when a tier 3 mineral 2 lvl 14 is more effective vs undead in a majority of contexts then a +4 disruptor lvl 16 vs undead (a true counter which only work by the way on undead) then there seems we got a problem. Instead of having a natural growth in gear strength we saw a new system introduced that some what destroyed the old system it by dwarfing it instead of complementing .

Crafting, random loot, named loot, and raid loot should work in a synergistic manner all equal and all very important. As it stands now it is very lopsided

The final blow wounding of puncturing.

Wounding of puncturing is like a mutation that turned out to be a great evolution.
It is the last part of random loot table organ that is keeping it alive. It is that one gem in the ruff. It is the one pull left in the random loot table that has any real degree of excitement to it.



The planned nerf

I see players who support the w/p nerf and say that its a exploit or overpowered.... w/p rapiers from my tests is only about 125%-150% more effective then the common vorpal in swing to kill ratio. I don't think thats overpowering at all, if they killed all trash mobs in the game in 3 to 1 swing then, it might be a case of imbalance. To add on average there may be 1 w/p rapier per ever 25 to 50 active accounts, so to find a player that has 2 of these weapons with a properly spec end game toon is more rare... all for a simple 25%-50% edge over the common vorpal, over simple trash mobs which for the most part R not the challage of this game.


Also to this Idea I say that first of all I think its very important to reward older players by making there many hours of effort worth something. This will mean something to newer players in that the more they played the game the more there seniority will give them edge. I know good players who left the game simple because they felt that 95% of a year and a half of there effort was discarded by the crafting system, and that the new crafting system was much less exciting then the old random loot system.

So now we move on to resolution

Now first of all to those who say that's not pin and paper I would like to say this: "your right its not"
Pin and paper is to DDO like a horse and buggy is to a ferrari the times have change and dungeons and dragons has changes with it. I have played pin and paper for years and MMOG are the next level evolution. This is whats so great is now we have a universal realm where we can all give are input and playing experience into the suggestion of the next stage of evolution of D&D


These are some of the ideas I have mentioned to many older and very experienced players, some of the best players on my server who have been here for 2 years plus, and I got about a 95% positive feedback.

1. Reduce drop rate of power 5's back to where they were when giant hold was released rewarding all players who have played up to this point who have them. Add improved power 5's RR LVL 16 or 18 regular at the old mod 4 drop rate in the newer lvl 20-and up quests to come in mod9 and mod10.

2. Add improved disruption at a +1 RR lvl 16 regular 18 that in all cases on normal hard and elite is more effective then a tier 3 weapon vs undead.

3. Add improved smite at a +1 RR lvl 16 regular 18 that in all cases on normal hard and elite is more effective then a tier 3 weapon vs constructs.

4. Add improved banish at a +1 RR lvl 16 regular 18 that in all cases on normal hard and elite is more effective then a tier 3 weapon vs banishable mobs .

5. of all the power 5's I think vorpal has some beat the odd and held its ground. I would continue with the theme add improved vorpal at RR lvl 16 regular 18 but I think it may need something besides vorpals on 19 and 20 due to that maybe to strong unless the mob death ward theme continues to some degree, so give improved vorpal something similar to vorpal plus limbchoper effects

6. I think paralyzing needs some major help in that paralyzed mobs should lose all dex bounce to AC and add improved para with a high dice check at a +1 RR 16 or normal 18.

7. Remove the prefix suffix rule to add more VERITY and even tho I would make them 10 time more rare then the newly rarer made improved power 5's make it possible to have a + 1 vorpal-paralyzer min LVL 20 or RR 18, or any other 2 power five combo. Also making it possible to have greater undead bane disruptor, or greater construct of smiteing ect all min lvl 16 or RR 14.


I think 1-7 implied would greatly improve the game bring back many who have left the game in a rush to recap the good old loot runs days.

8. Make it possible to have keen stack with improved crit since in almost all cases feats stack with weapons and item effects so that 1 out of 50 w/p's would be a keen w/p doubling the puncturing effect or keen smiting semitars etc. This would create a super lotto of excitement.

9. Add Superior bane to the pool at +1 RR 12 and +1 lvl 14 normal thats +8 8D6. Many players rarely use bane weapons any more due to the great over power of teir 3 crafting.

10. Bring named items back to life. There R some many great named items that players still use today at level 16.

11. Add a loot search engine to the game where U can put in an example like.... +1 w/p rapier-end reward-shroud and it would come up with 1 out of 3000
Or large scales shroud part 5 ingredient chest and it would come up with 1 out of 9

12 Add a mob search engine to the game example Arreatrikos shroud hard it would come back with AC 41 +| to hit 45 | damage 30-50 | delayed blast fire spell 50-200 etc. but this is off subject and if I get started ill post the other 90 ideas I have.....

If you to would like to see these changes added to the game or think these are good ideas then show some support, and reply with a signed

Lets recognize this and bring this part of the DDO experience back and stronger then ever.....

[Korvek]

Haven't I seen this before somewhere?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

yes this does look strangely familiar...

EDIT: oops found another one.

Garth

[branmakmuffin]

One of the vital organ systems of DDO I believe is the RANDOM LOOT TABLE.

The post is too big to actually read, but a statement which analogizes something in DDO to a vital organ system is worth quoting.

[Korvek]

yes this does look strangely familiar...

EDIT: oops found another one.

Garth

Oh yeah? How about This?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Oh yeah? How about This?

Touché

Garth

[MrCow]

Add a mob search engine to the game example Arreatrikos shroud hard it would come back with AC 41 +| to hit 45 | damage 30-50 | delayed blast fire spell 50-200 etc. but this is off subject and if I get started ill post the other 90 ideas I have...

Once upon a time I tried an experiment like that, but the community involvement required to make it become a reality was simply lacking. Too many people desire all the answers and seldom care about how to reach the answers or finding the answers for one's self.

[sirgog]

The post is too big to actually read, but a statement which analogizes something in DDO to a vital organ system is worth quoting.

If you don't read it, don't reply.


Back on topic: I think that there are two major problems here. Firstly, there's what you outlined: no weapon on the random loot tables except a couple can compete with crafted loot - in fact, they are so far behind that it's just not funny.

The second problem is that there are constantly good items being looted but there's no mechanics getting them out of the game (except permandamage, which is extremely slow, and players choosing to bind weapons for alchemical rituals, which is borderline worthless).

Contrast this to a game like WoW, where a popular near-endgame weapon is the Titansteel Destroyer - far, far more common than anything as good as it in DDO (power level wise, think of it as a +5 Holy Silver Greataxe of Pure Good - i.e. not quite as good as a Mineral 2 but pretty close). The key difference is that WoW has items like this be bound upon equipping them - meaning that these great items are being taken out of the game's economy when the player replaces them with a superior one, thus keeping the items valuable even when they may not be scarce.

Binds-on-Equip is a better system than Binds-on-Pickup for these types of items as there's few things more frustrating than looting an item that seems awesome until you realise that your other character would love it but your current one cannot use it & it's nowbound.

I might post a different suggestion as to how to make random loot worthwhile again, as I'd see the key thing as introducing a new category of magic items that bind on equip, are better than the current random loot and have the 'potential' to be up there with raid loot

[branmakmuffin]

If you don't read it, don't reply.

If you don't like my replies, don't reply.

[jmelanie7]

If you don't read it, don't reply.


Back on topic: I think that there are two major problems here. Firstly, there's what you outlined: no weapon on the random loot tables except a couple can compete with crafted loot - in fact, they are so far behind that it's just not funny.

The second problem is that there are constantly good items being looted but there's no mechanics getting them out of the game (except permandamage, which is extremely slow, and players choosing to bind weapons for alchemical rituals, which is borderline worthless).

Contrast this to a game like WoW, where a popular near-endgame weapon is the Titansteel Destroyer - far, far more common than anything as good as it in DDO (power level wise, think of it as a +5 Holy Silver Greataxe of Pure Good - i.e. not quite as good as a Mineral 2 but pretty close). The key difference is that WoW has items like this be bound upon equipping them - meaning that these great items are being taken out of the game's economy when the player replaces them with a superior one, thus keeping the items valuable even when they may not be scarce.

Binds-on-Equip is a better system than Binds-on-Pickup for these types of items as there's few things more frustrating than looting an item that seems awesome until you realise that your other character would love it but your current one cannot use it & it's nowbound.

I might post a different suggestion as to how to make random loot worthwhile again, as I'd see the key thing as introducing a new category of magic items that bind on equip, are better than the current random loot and have the 'potential' to be up there with raid loot

They coming with Account bound items in mod 9, so transferable to YOUR other toons via the shared bank tab, that is also coming out in mod9. I think account bound items is pretty good stuff.

[osirisisis]

If you don't read it, don't reply.


Back on topic: I think that there are two major problems here. Firstly, there's what you outlined: no weapon on the random loot tables except a couple can compete with crafted loot - in fact, they are so far behind that it's just not funny.

The second problem is that there are constantly good items being looted but there's no mechanics getting them out of the game (except permandamage, which is extremely slow, and players choosing to bind weapons for alchemical rituals, which is borderline worthless).

Contrast this to a game like WoW, where a popular near-endgame weapon is the Titansteel Destroyer - far, far more common than anything as good as it in DDO (power level wise, think of it as a +5 Holy Silver Greataxe of Pure Good - i.e. not quite as good as a Mineral 2 but pretty close). The key difference is that WoW has items like this be bound upon equipping them - meaning that these great items are being taken out of the game's economy when the player replaces them with a superior one, thus keeping the items valuable even when they may not be scarce.

Binds-on-Equip is a better system than Binds-on-Pickup for these types of items as there's few things more frustrating than looting an item that seems awesome until you realise that your other character would love it but your current one cannot use it & it's nowbound.

I might post a different suggestion as to how to make random loot worthwhile again, as I'd see the key thing as introducing a new category of magic items that bind on equip, are better than the current random loot and have the 'potential' to be up there with raid loot

plz post your suggestion

Binds on equips is entrusting but I think the point would need items coming out of the loot table of value again. Maybe a half way point of binds on equips until unbound by the stone of change after X amount of resources had been used in the process of unbinding.... and make that amount resources on the steep side.

[osirisisis]

yes this does look strangely familiar...

EDIT: oops found another one.

Garth

hmm i wounder if this person who posting all of these is passionate about getting a point a crossed

and for the record let it show that each post is different is some way or altered slightly...

[Korvek]

Binds on equips is entrusting but I think the point would need items coming out of the loot table of value again. Maybe a half way point of binds on equips until unbound by the stone of change after X amount of resources had been used in the process of unbinding.... and make that amount resources on the steep side.

Allowing an unbinding process is counter-productive to the idea of Bind on Equip.

[osirisisis]

Allowing an unbinding process is counter-productive to the idea of Bind on Equip.

true... but if it does cost resources to unbind, then it does take something out of the economy..... all and all the point I think is kinda mute giving the random loot table current status.

[BlackSteel]

why is this reposted again?

[Borror0]

Since this is the third repost this, I am simply going to paste here my most complete reply to your post.

Power 5 were the big craze and everyone want them. They were rare, but Turbine's first mistake was that instead of keeping them rare like at the beginning mod 4, they made them more common as chest lvl increased. With +1 loot weekends there was a large influx of power 5's and the excitement got diluted. Another very entrusting corespondent to this was that toward the end of mod 4 population started to drop from its highest point ever.

Even without the +1 loot weekend, the drop rare in Module 4 was very high.

As Korvek said earlier, the drop rate of Module 3 is a more appropriated drop rate if you seek rarity.

This organ system took a big hit in mod 6 with crafting.

Green Steel equipment was more the final blow. Turbine's first mistake was to created non-random loot that was vastly more powerful than random loot of the same level.

Green Steel equipment would have been more balanced as level 20 raid loot, than level 16 raid loot.

MARK MY WORDS .....NERF W/P AND THIS ORGAN SYSTEM WILL FAIL.

If by nerf you mean making it less attractive while still being a great weapon, then you are just plain wrong. Nerfing w/p, if using that definition, will not kill random loot. Random loot is already dead. No one will really bother for a chest or a quick loot run, really. The drop rate is too lo anyway.

If by nerfing you mean making totally worthless, then you are overstating it. It will be bad for the game, but not for random loot. Random loot is already unattractive.

So now we move on to resolution

While not diving into the specifics, better high level item enchantments are needed. Improved version of some of the previous enchantment do not seem to be a bad idea. This is not limited to Banishing, Smiting, Paralyzing and Disruption. Any previous enchantment should be given an improved version.

Some current "trash enchantment" could also be given a little more love, possibly.

A way to improve the overall quality of random loot would also be to change the progression. Right now, the formula for loot is (base price modifier * 2) - 2 = minimum level. For example, a +1 weapon or armor have a bpm of 1, and a ML of 0. A +5 weapon has a bpm of 5 and a ML 8.

What could be done is that, past level 10, the enhancement bonus to weapon/armor start affecting the bmp less and less.

Minimum level      Enhancement bonus        Equivalent
                     affecting bpm        of current bpm

     10                   +5                   +6                  
     12                   +4                   +8
     14                   +3                   +10
     16                   +2                   +12
     18                   +1                   +14
     20                   +0                   +16

What would be a ML 20 right now would have a bpm of 11. Under that system, a ML 20 weapon would have the equivalent of a 16 bpm. This transition would allow us to keep up the pace with named loot and restore some dignity to the random loot.

The use of a more abrupt slope could affect new players by making tweaking more powerful than it was already. This could be solved by adding decent static loot at the end of some high level quests, a bit in the way Turbine did on Kortos by giving stuff better than the current random loot but lesser than the tweaking gear. Either way, it would not be a bad idea, if only to offset the huge advantage Green Steel equipment represents.

I'm not totally sure whether or not such a progression is a good idea for weapons, but it is required for armors and shields.

Oh, and last comment regarding your Keen suggestion: NO, NEVER!

I think DDO is not going to reach it's full potential in a crafting grind

While I agree with that, I think that your overall hate of crafting made you overlook the positive effects a crafting system based on deconstruction of random loot could have. (This is, by the way, what has been spoken about crafting the few times we heard about it.)

1. It would slow down the generation of money by having us deconstruct our random loot for the components.
2. It would increase the worth random chests.

I'm not really a huge fan of crafting as a concept, but it could be a good thing depending on how it's done.

Finally, I'll just add that crafted Green Steel equipment was not the first cause of the problem you describe. Sword of shadows was also causing the same problem, but at a smaller scale. The real problem is named gear, raid loot or not, that was way more powerful than anything randomly generated at the same level. Only what is not available on random loot then becomes appealing.

If Turbine wants to stop this problem, they'll have to be wary and conservative with their named loot from now on.

[~Zaknafeinx]

Petition for you to stop copy pasting your old posts.

[epochofcrepuscule]

8. Make it possible to have keen stack with improved crit since in almost all cases feats stack with weapons and item effects so that 1 out of 50 w/p's would be a keen w/p doubling the puncturing effect or keen smiting semitars etc. This would create a super lotto of excitement.




Lets be honest, if you think keen and improved crit stack, you obviously have not played PnP very much, there exact descriptors say that they dont. They expand the NATURAL crit range of whatever weapon. If the bonus is not a natural improvement to crit range, it will not stack with others like it, though natural crit range improvements do stack(though all natural improvements to crit range in PnP go towards 1 weapon and 1 weapon only for whatever prestige class)

Noone cares about credentials to be honest, take a look at most forum posts....

Lastly... so what is this, the 4th time its been posted? Once was enough, everyone got your point then. Stop reposting the same thing!!

[vtecfiend99]

first Of All My Credentials

Rofl

[Souske]

8. Make it possible to have keen stack with improved crit since in almost all cases feats stack with weapons and item effects so that 1 out of 50 w/p's would be a keen w/p doubling the puncturing effect or keen smiting semitars etc. This would create a super lotto of excitement.




Lets be honest, if you think keen and improved crit stack, you obviously have not played PnP very much, there exact descriptors say that they dont. They expand the NATURAL crit range of whatever weapon. If the bonus is not a natural improvement to crit range, it will not stack with others like it, though natural crit range improvements do stack(though all natural improvements to crit range in PnP go towards 1 weapon and 1 weapon only for whatever prestige class)

Noone cares about credentials to be honest, take a look at most forum posts....

Lastly... so what is this, the 4th time its been posted? Once was enough, everyone got your point then. Stop reposting the same thing!!

This is something I have never had answered, glass weapons are considered Keen right? For instance Glass arrows have the Keen upgrade... even though they are not Made as such, would improved crit stack with a glass form of keen? I am a PnP player and have thought of using this for my deepwood sniper but have yet to hit the level, what do you think? And would it be possible to find glass weapons in end game if so? For instance... A glass rapier that has had the addy upgrade on it 3-4 times and then improved crit... That could work right? Then throw puncture on it and Bam! A 15-20 crit range no?