need build help

[ronco]

im thinking of going drow, pally 12 ranger 6 rogue 2 ,

so far my stats are

str 14
dex 16
con 12
int 12
wis 10
chr 14

have 1 +2 chr tome, +2 str tome and +1 int tome

feats: dodge, mobillity, spring attack, ce, icp, gtwf

thinking for pally 12 i will have the enh for evil outsiders and rgr fav enemy evil outsiders..

skills was thinking either intim / balance ... or balance / umd

gear i have to use are .. daggertoths belt...+5mith bp. coutless nice rapiers.. chaosguard..

anyhelp or an actual build template would be sweet

[Thanimal]

im thinking of going drow, pally 12 ranger 6 rogue 2 ,

so far my stats are

str 14
dex 16
con 12
int 12
wis 10
chr 14

have 1 +2 chr tome, +2 str tome and +1 int tome

feats: dodge, mobillity, spring attack, ce, icp, gtwf

thinking for pally 12 i will have the enh for evil outsiders and rgr fav enemy evil outsiders..

skills was thinking either intim / balance ... or balance / umd

gear i have to use are .. daggertoths belt...+5mith bp. coutless nice rapiers.. chaosguard..

anyhelp or an actual build template would be sweet

I think we need to know what you're trying to BE in order to provide useful suggestions. I don't see Finesse on your feat list, and it sure seems like you're aiming for DPS, which would tell me your starting STR is too low. But then you have CE rather than Power Attack, so I don't know if you're aiming for DPS. Do you want to full-on tank? Listing intimidate as a "maybe" skill concerns me because usually you have to be dedicated to achieving tankiness for Intimidate to be worthwhile. I think it's a poor "throw on" in most cases.

But firstly, you haven't spent all your attribute points, have you? My count is:

str 14: 6
dex 16: 6
con 12: 6
int 12: 2
wis 10: 2
chr 14: 4
---
26

[negative]

I didn't look at everything, and I'm not sure what the goal of this build is (I'll assume DPS), but just some random thoughts.

To answer your skill question, I would go balance/UMD, it makes the trade off you make for taking those 2 rogue levels more worth it.

You are trading the ability to cast Zeal for evasion and UMD that way. I'm not convienced about the 14/6 pally/ranger myself, so this might be a good tradeoff. I'm not sure how that compares to pure or 18/2 splits though.

You only list 6 feats, your 7th should probably be power attack. What order are you taking your levels? It would also be very nice to get toughness in there. Which leads me to my next paragraph.

I don't know that CE is worth it without an AC breakdown, but I feel like you'd be better off w/o CE and putting more points into STR and CON. You might also be able to drop 2 points out of WIS if you felt inclined.

[ronco]

im jus looking for a build where i can hit fast (tempest) be good against Evil outsiders.. and do something more for damage then all my stat damage toons.. plus i love evasion and cant see myself living with out it... would like 3x pos kopeshes.. i jus need some direction i am horrible at making toons :d.. i always try to do too much with too little.. i love pally saves and the new pally pre.. but would like to go into it twf..

[spifflove]

Other options you might consider are droping the ranger levels and boosting paladin or rogue levels or going tempest III strength ranger, droping dex and boosting str.

You say you don't want another stat damager and I just don't see how to drow without going dex other than str ranger. Your stats are very thin otherwise.

[Thanimal]

i always try to do too much with too little..

First step complete: Know thyself.

But I'm starting to get it a little. Reading between the lines, I think the big thing you want to do here is deal some major "real" damage, so I suggest that we first optimize the **** out of that, and only then double back and see if you can improve your defenses meaningfully without giving up much DPS.

A great place to start is gfunk's thread on TWF. Pick a build off of there that gives you some of the other things you want, and then customize it. All of those can be considered "real" DPS builds, with the ordering depending greatly on the situation.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174906

My guess is the one you want is:
1249.9.. Warforged Tempest I Knight of the Chalice II, vs evil outsiders, w/zeal (16 bse str) assumes acid damage http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174590

Of note: Due to the Power Attack enhancements, and the superiority of Khopeshes (rather than Daxes or Rapiers), nearly every build deals its peak DPS as a Warforged. But it's not a rule that you MUST have peak DPS, of course. Very high DPS with other benefits may be a fantastic character. Still, I'd think *very* carefully before picking any other race. WF Paladins tend to be freakishly durable (massive list of immunities -- way fun vs. Beholders!), so *also* getting the peak possible DPS should not be discarded lightly.

Getting anywhere close to your goals now? Or am I wandering astray?

[ronco]

thank you very much thanimal i think im well on my way

[ronco]

now where can i find me a build idea fo wf tempest 1 / kotc lol

[Thanimal]

now where can i find me a build idea fo wf tempest 1 / kotc lol

Here's a thread with some ideas:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=176199

But I'm inclined to agree with your initial instinct that Rogue 2 offer more than levels 13 and 14 Paladin - a touch of Sneak Attack and Evasion. EDIT!! SO WRONG. Zeal is at 14. So getting Evasion here is not at all free.

Feats are TIGHT on this build, too, which is probably why Impaqt went human. So I think what you really want is 2 levels of Monk instead of Rogue. That gives you two extra feats (since you want MANY of the Monk feats), and should therefore leave room for Khopesh proficiency and the rest of the critical stuff. So I think if you do want Evasion (and willing to give up Zeal -- I would be fwiw), Paladin 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2 may be the way to go.

I'm surprised I don't quickly find this built already on the forums. Might be forced to do it myself. Ow, arm twisting...

[ronco]

Big Thanks Again.. So WF it is and monk sounds very nice... evasion is my hero

[Greydeath]

Here's a thread with some ideas:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=176199

But I'm inclined to agree with your initial instinct that Rogue 2 offer more than levels 13 and 14 Paladin - a touch of Sneak Attack and Evasion. EDIT!! SO WRONG. Zeal is at 14. So getting Evasion here is not at all free.

Hard to say... but Pal14 is probably better than Monk/Rogue2.

Holy Sword negates the need for Greenseel weapons (saves those larges!) and will actually bypass DR making them vastly better than tri+

Zeal stacks with Tempest for TWENTY Percent (20%) alacrity!

[negative]

Zeal stacks with Tempest for TWENTY Percent (20%) alacrity!

More or less.

Still, evasion and 2 feats, or evasion, 1d6 SA, and high UMD might be worth the tradeoff.

[Nonan]

But, but, but.. you would have to play a WF. ICK!!!!

Actually, nice build talk guys.... I like the way it looks and is changing my mind on a DPS machine... thanks!!!

[negative]

I've always been a fan of WF Pally's for their immunities and saves.

[ronco]

so i rolled him up WF.. My 1st WF btw ..

Stats Are:
STR 16
DEX 15
Con 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHR 13



Sound better?

lv1 rng
lv2 mnk
3-7 rng
8 mnk
9-16 pal
i dunno if this is a good progression but jus what i though i may do

[negative]

so i rolled him up WF.. My 1st WF btw ..

Stats Are:
STR 16
DEX 15
Con 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHR 13

You'll need a +2 dex tome for GTWF, no biggie, in fact, I'd recommend going that way.

I wish you have more con and CHA, but there really isn't anywhere to take the points from. You could start with 8 WIS if you want, I think (I'm no pally expert), but that gets you either 1 more point of CHA or 20 HP at level 20...so I'm not convienced either will make or break you.

Seems ok to me.

As far as level progression, seems fine. Depending on when you want certain feats (ie: do you need a monk bonus feat @ 2), could also go 1-6 Ranger, 7-8 Monk, rest Pally.

[ronco]

Good Point... gets me tempest that much faster

if any1 could help me decide which feats at whish level it would be alot of help aswell.. was looking at going kopesh and gtwf

[negative]

Good Point... gets me tempest that much faster

if any1 could help me decide which feats at whish level it would be alot of help aswell.. was looking at going kopesh and gtwf

Assuming all 6 ranger levels first.

Edit: Changed feat order to reflect proper BAB progression ( I hope )

1-Dodge
3-Mobility
6-Spring Attack
7-Power Attack (Monk Bonus)
8-Toughness (Monk Bonus)
9-Improved Crit Slash
12-GTWF
15-Kopesh
18-??Up to you, I might go for Stunning Blow

[Thanimal]

Good Point... gets me tempest that much faster

if any1 could help me decide which feats at whish level it would be alot of help aswell.. was looking at going kopesh and gtwf

First Warforged!! Welcome to the club. Warforged, built and played "properly," are absolutely awesome. They also can completely blow if NOT built and played well. Although it's way out of date, the following is still worth a read for a WF first-timer:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126983

Next, let me take a shot at feat progression:

1: Dodge
3: Khopesh proficiency
6: Spring attack
9: iCrit: Slashing
12: gTWF (note that TWF and iTWF were granted by Ranger levels)
15: Toughness

Monk Bonus Feats (in order): Mobility, Power Attack

I don't love postponing Toughness all the way to 15, but I'm afraid everything else is even higher priority?

Although some folks use Khopeshes without proficiency, I don't *think* this build quite has the to-hit pad to do that, mainly because you want fully enhanced Power Attack for -8 to hit / +8 damage per hit. Eating -12 on to-hit *might* be too much. But if you're playing at the cap someday and noticing you never miss anything, you could consider trading it out.

Don't forget to take Healer's Friend I (but not II, which is ridiculously over-costed). This is equivalent to giving yourself and your Clerics a 30% bonus (15 is 30% of 50) on Cure wands/spells. Paladin Lay on Hands operates at full strength on WF, so eventually you won't be a healing burden at all, but Healer's Friend I is always appreciated. And if you do any soloing, you'll be the one appreciating it, since you won't burn through Cure wands. (If your Cleric sees you using Cure Wands on yourself, btw, that's usually good brownie points!)

The only other critical enhancements I can think of are the WF Power Attack line, pretty much every stat bump you can get, and of course Tempest and KotC. Aura enhancements on AC and saves are technically optional, since you're not the tank. But if you can possibly fit them, the guy who is your tank will be VERY happy. (I love Paladin DPS builds for that very reason! I usually play not-full-Paladin intimitanks, so getting a "free" aura from a DPS buid is sweeeet.)

[Thanimal]

Assuming all 6 ranger levels first. Can't take Imp Crit til 12, and GTWF till 15, unless you hold your monk levels till later, personally, I don't think that is worth it.

I don't think that's true. You only lose one point off BAB from the 2 Monk levels, so at level 9 you have BAB 8, exactly meeting the requirement for iCrit. And at level 12, you have BAB 11, exactly meeting the requirement for gTWF.

Did I hose up my math?