Rogue skills on the Exploiter Build

[Lux-Aeterna]

I'm making the "Exploiter"
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687

I have been playing around on the character builder with this build since I want to go for full rogue skills. I am following the feat and attribute points selections.

This is my first rogue skill build and also my first fully tomed build so I want to make sure I do it right.

I'm waiting at first level and hoping to get some feedback on this before I spend my +2 tomes.

I get forty skill points on the first rogue level, nine skill points per level on the ranger levels, and seven on the monk one.

At first level I took Balance, Disable Device, Intimidate, Jump, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Swim, Tumble, and Use Magic Device.

I maxed UMD, Intimidate, and Disable device (19 ranks each) since these are crucial and there is never any margin for error.
I skimped on search and open lock (15 ranks each) since there is no penalty for failure with either skill and you can afford to wait for a good roll.
I dumped spot since everyone almost always knows where the trap is.
I dumped jump because I can always cast it on myself from the ranger levels.
I took advantage of the monk level and put the full seven points into balance since this is my only chance to boost it easily after first level. With the high dex and a +15 item I figured 11 ranks should be enough.

I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks

[Impaqt]

All good points except for Search. There is no roll. You find the box or you dont.

[Schmackdown]

I skimped on search and open lock (15 ranks each) since there is no penalty for failure with either skill and you can afford to wait for a good roll.

There is no roll for Search. Your penalty for failure is not finding the box.

[Hanam]

I'm making the "Exploiter"
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687

I have been playing around on the character builder with this build since I want to go for full rogue skills. I am following the feat and attribute points selections.

This is my first rogue skill build and also my first fully tomed build so I want to make sure I do it right.

I'm waiting at first level and hoping to get some feedback on this before I spend my +2 tomes.

I get forty skill points on the first rogue level, nine skill points per level on the ranger levels, and seven on the monk one.

At first level I took Balance, Disable Device, Intimidate, Jump, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Swim, Tumble, and Use Magic Device.

I maxed UMD, Intimidate, and Disable device (19 ranks each) since these are crucial and there is never any margin for error.
I skimped on search and open lock (15 ranks each) since there is no penalty for failure with either skill and you can afford to wait for a good roll.
I dumped spot since everyone almost always knows where the trap is.
I dumped jump because I can always cast it on myself from the ranger levels.
I took advantage of the monk level and put the full seven points into balance since this is my only chance to boost it easily after first level. With the high dex and a +15 item I figured 11 ranks should be enough.

I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks

There is no roll on search.

edit: heh, everyone saw the same thing.

[Thrudh]

Keep Search maxed, and skimp a bit more on Open Lock... If you have a high Dex and a good Open Lock item, you won't have any problems

[Phidius]

Keep Search maxed, and skimp a bit more on Open Lock... If you have a high Dex and a good Open Lock item, you won't have any problems

/signed

[Emili]

As others have stated there is no roll for search... you either have the number high enough to find the trap or you do not... you do not get a roll so retries are futile unless you change item, buff or boost. Secret doors clickies TS and goggles are available so doors do not matter at all, but you cannot disable the trap boxes if you cannot find them. Search is far more importnat then OL and having low spot and low search is worse then because some traps are quasi-random... Cry for help, Feast or famine, Forbidden, Rainbow, Coal, Monestary, etc... and some in particular hurt pretty hard... while not so bad for evasion build getting that poor cleric you're with accross the trap can be a pain if you cannot get the box.

Also Spot does more then alert for traps, I make it a habit on every character to have at least a few points in spot, Not for traps but for distant mob... it is very nice to see the outline of the mob and click target them to see who, what and where they are before they are agroed... especially on any melee or ranged character getting a few attacks in before they're attacking back is great. Pick out the mob's clerics and casters before the encounter run in kill in a couple swings and clean up the melees after. I once knew a dwarven fighter who had a zero spot ... Met him leveling up in Storm Cleave and the wolves knocked him down every time before he could see them. He asked me how I was ontop of and killing mob before he realized they were there... told him, it's spot.

So then... Max DD, Umd and Search... spot and ol need not be max'd and you do have the skill point allocations for it because Search and Spot are also ranger skills - not cross-class... push all these skills to 4 on creation (since you start off rogue) and then the 7-8 skill points you receive as ranger covers them all... balance while nice you can deal with far less skill points in it since is a dex skill. Not that there anything wrong ... is just the way I would have done it.

[doppleganger]

Like all the others said, dont skimp on search, there is no roll, and if you dont find the box, you cannot disarm the trap, so...

As for dumping Spot, yea you can decide to depend on others to tell you where to search. But having the ability to feel the presence of traps, hidden doors, and detecting hidden ennemies is real fun in my opinion.

Since this is your first rogue skill build, I would go with maxing Spot as well, and ditch Intimidate unless you are married to the idea. The exploiter build is stretched thin on skill points, you got to decide what you want to accomplish with your toon.

I have made a dex based variation of the exploiter, without the search/disable traps, because I did not want to spread my skill points too thin and wanted good Balance and Jump skills (I know, there is no need to put that many skill points in Jump, but the feeling of having a uber jump without any boost like items, spells, etc is just great to me) . I maxed UMD, Jump, Spot, Open Lock (ok, I skimped a little on it), almost maxed Balance.

I decided I wanted to be able to be somewhat self sufficient in moving around. Thus the ability to spot traps (not everybody knows where the traps are) and then proceed to evade the trap if I am alone, or point to others in the group (I play with some wizard/rogues that dont necessarily invest in Spot themselves and dont know the trap locations, so this is handy). If I meet a locked door, I can open it.

Think on what are your priorities with your toon. Are you gonna Intimidate ennemies that much? I am not trying to downplay Intimidate, I have it on a few toons. But this being your first rogue skills build, I would try to make it a good all around traps/lock rogue and concentrate on that, instead of trying to do too much.

[D'rin]

One thing to remember with spot on a ranger is you get wild instinct for a +10 to spot. This helps a good deal.

[DelScorcho]

Yep, max intim, disable, UMD, and search. I stop putting ranks into open locks at about 12 ranks.

[Lux-Aeterna]

Ok. Some important info here...
So I need to max search and have to back off on balance and open lock.

I'm worried about significantly reducing open lock. I know there isn't a lot of need for open lock in the current high level content but I have to assume there will be soon. I suppose that you can always assume that you can wait for a 20 on your roll so that helps. How much should I aim for (at level 16) for now?

I'm a little more comfortable dumping spot. The tanks (and I) will notice stealthed enemies as we run into them while hacking wildly. I don't see the second and a half increase in awareness time as being significant. I've also been playing since the start with various characters so I pretty much know where all the traps and boxes are. With the exception of spotting random traps (which I can take the fall for with my evasion) I don't see a big reason to take it. I could be wrong though.

[Riorik]

There is no roll for Search. Your penalty for failure is not finding the box.

Isn't it the same way with spot? Either you see it or you don't. No such thing as sometimes getting it and sometimes not. However, there is a difference regarding proximity to the trap -- higher values detect it from further away.

Subjectively, this has been my own experience. No roll on either.

[Riorik]

I'm worried about significantly reducing open lock. I know there isn't a lot of need for open lock in the current high level content but I have to assume there will be soon. I suppose that you can always assume that you can wait for a 20 on your roll so that helps. How much should I aim for (at level 16) for now?

Last time I saw a figure, I think the maximum needed is a 60 which I believe may be in that Necropolis quest in the NW...darn it, can't remember the name...

Point is, a 40 is sufficient if you can wait for a 20. Not sure about anybody else but my skill-monkey builds tend to hit about a 50 unbuffed. Breaking 60 is possible but unnecessary.

[KingOfCheese]

There is quite a bit of flexibility to skip levels on the rogue skills and still be effective at most current end game rogue tasks with the exploiter build. Consider that you will have a +15 item, +4 GH, +3-4 skill boost, +2 head of good fortune, +5 for intel (add a +6 item when you are in rogue mode) or +8 for dex (locks) = +30ish or more added on to your skill levels and your rolls. Add in bonus for +5 thieves tools and you are adding a lot. You need very few ranks in lock picking to hit all meaningful locks in the game--assuming you are willing to roll a few times on some of the harder ones. My exploiter build took only a few ranks in lock picking and has hit every lock I've cared to hit. Mod9 may change this--but we will see (plus you can always craft exceptional skill items from the shroud to add +6 more--if it is ever needed). Same with Disable--i've taken only partial ranks and at lvl 16, boosted up, have never blown a trap (I blew a few while leveling up before getting all the good gear). I've kept search maxed.

[Lux-Aeterna]

Ok this is my new plan.

Max UMD, Intimidate, Search, and Disable.
I am going to ignore spot.
I'm going to invest in open lock until level 13 when I take the monk level. I still want to devote the points to balance.

I'll then play catch up and max the four up top ignoring open lock with 15 ranks in it.

This new forum skin is making me nervous about missing the mod 9 tome level increase.