Outfitting my monk. Looking for clarification on ac stacking.

[Sauron]

After reading some info on what stacks and doesn't I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything when trying to determine what I should use for a robe.

What I currently have access to in terms of base items / robes (relating to armor class):

- chaosgardes +2 dodge bonus.
- DT +6 Armor, +5 prot, +4 natural, +5 resist.
- +1 alch bonus
- Icyraiment +4 dodge, +4 prot, +3 resist.
- +3 nature bonus (potion).
- +5 prot cloak.
- +4 resist ring.
- +6 armor bracer.

My base understanding on what stacks is that anything named the same doesn't stack? only higher value will be taken ie: dodge from chattering doesn't stack with dodge from chaosgarde's or DT armor. Or protection from a cloak won't stack with icy built in protection bonus only higher value will be taken?


Using the above items and understanding I would than have a base robe ac of:

DT outfit: Robe +15 ac, +1 alch bonus, +2 chaos (dodge bonus) for a total ac of 18 base.

- Pro: I won't need to use my +5 prot cloak, +4 resist ring +6 armor bracer.

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AC using Icyraiment: Outfit +4 ac, +1 alch bonus, +5 cloak (protection bonus), +6 bracer (armor bonus) for a total of 16 base.

- Con: I will need to use my +5 prot cloak, +4 resist ring, +6 armor bracer to increase the base armor right?

If the above regarding stacking is right I should scrap the natural bonus on my DT armor than, and go with +4 insight to boost my base armor further right?

ie: DT +6 armor, +5 prot, +4 insight, +3 nature (potion), +2 chaosgarde, +1 alch bonus for 21 ac.
as opposed to DT +6 armor, +5 prot, +4 nature, +2 chaosgarde, +1 alch bonus for 18 ac.

Using what I have access to, that means my icy raiments will never really be able to match up with the current benefits I get using my DT armor unless I can farm some fairly rare items right (like +4 shroud insight bonus or +3 dodge chattering ring or +8 armor bracers)?

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Actually just for fun assuming in the future I obtained (+8 armor bracer, +4 insight shroud item, chattering ring).

DT: +5 prot, +4 nature, +4 insight (shroud), +3 dodge (chattering) +8 armor (bracer), +1 alch bonus for 25 ac.

* Would overwrite built in armor bonus from DT and I would no longer be able to wear my chaosgardes due to the armor bracer taking up a slot, but I would now gain the +3 dodge bonus from chattering ring as opposed to chaosgardes.

Icy: +4 base (dodge bonus), +5 prot, +3 nature (potion), +4 insight (shroud), +8 armor (bracer), +1 alch bonus for 25 ac.

* only thing I'm not sure about, does the chattering ring dodge bonus stack with the dodge bonus on the icy? if so that would boost the ac by another 3 bringing the total up to 28 making the icyraiments far superior to my DT in terms of ac at that point.

Thanks for any info you can provide; after typing it out, it seems clearer to me: But never hurts to check with others.

[Ssmooth]

All dodge bonuses stack. Feat, chattering ring, raiments and chaosguard all stack. For a monk, imo, if you have the raiments, and you want to maximize your AC, you need to wear them.

my 2cp.

[Aspenor]

You're right on the naming conventions, except one thing:
Dodge bonuses of different values stack.

i.e. Icy Raiment (+4) + Chattering Ring (+3) + Chaosguard (+2) = 9

Of course you'd be better off using the Raiment and the +6 armor bracers since 4+6 > 4+2

also, FWIW, resistance items don't contribute to AC. I often take off my Boots of the Innocent for 30% striders when I'm not hasted since, IMO, the +3 resistance on the Raiment is plenty.

[ArkoHighStar]

All dodge bonuses stack. Feat, chattering ring, raiments and chaosguard all stack. For a monk, imo, if you have the raiments, and you want to maximize your AC, you need to wear them.

my 2cp.

this is not true dodge bonuses on items in DDO that have the same value do not stack, this is the "house rule" to explain why the dodge bonus on the chattering ring and the DT armor do not stack.

[Sauron]

You're right on the naming conventions, except one thing:
Dodge bonuses of different values stack.

i.e. Icy Raiment (+4) + Chattering Ring (+3) + Chaosguard (+2) = 9

Of course you'd be better off using the Raiment and the +6 armor bracers since 4+6 > 4+2

also, FWIW, resistance items don't contribute to AC. I often take off my Boots of the Innocent for 30% striders when I'm not hasted since, IMO, the +3 resistance on the Raiment is plenty.

Thanks for the info, didn't realize that dodge bonus's of different value stack. I didn't add in the resistance bonus to the ac total in my original post. I just included it, so I could compare between the benefits of icy / dragontouched for myself and indicate what was currently on the armor itself.

P.S. what does FWIW mean? the meaning of the acronym is escaping me at the moment.

[Jopin]

FWIW = For What It's Worth

[Sauron]

FWIW = For What It's Worth

Thanks, for some reason the meaning escaped me

[Hasteclicky]

It also depends on what you fight with. Since you can't make shroud handwraps, unless your monk uses kamas you will need +8 ac bracers to equal what you would get with the Dt outfit.

Outfit 6+ CG bracers 2+ insight 4+ prot 5= 17
Icy 4+ Armor bracers 8+ prot 4= 16

now both those are considering not wearing a SEPARATE prot item, but for now if you can manage to get the insight bonus on your outfit you'll be better off till you get ac 8 bracers.

[Gratch]

As an example of where my tempest monk (monk10/ranger6) gets his stacked up AC:
The ()'s are what type of source it is listed under on the character AC examination:

AC Calc:
Base: 10
Dex: 13 (dexterity)
Wis: 7 (wisdom)
bracers: 8 (armor)
protection 5: 5 (deflection)
Shroud Tier 3 Kama w. +4 Insight AC: 4 (Misc)
Dodge: 1 (Feat)
Tempest: 2 (Feat) (This will be shield in Mod 9 and won't stack with the shield clicky)
Combat Expertise: 5 (Feat)
Two Weapon Defense Feat: 1 (Feat)
Monk: 3 (Centered)
Halfling: 1 (Size)
chattering: 3 (Dodge)
Icy Raiments: 4 + 1 alchemical (Dodge)

== Self Buffs
Barkskin Potion: 3 (Natural)
shield clicky: 4 (Shield)
Haste clicky: 1
=> 76

Other Possible Stacking Sources:
1 Favored Defense: 1
5 Aura (Paladin16)
2 Natural (Ranger12 gives +5 total)
4 Inspire Heroics (Bard15 song)
2 Recitation
3 Heroes Companion (Halfling enhancement)
4 Mobility feat (while Tumbling) (Or more likely +2 twf blocking ac)

[Sauron]

As an example of where my tempest monk (monk10/ranger6) gets his stacked up AC:
The ()'s are what type of source it is listed under on the character AC examination:

shield clicky: 4 (Shield)

What's a shield clicky's bonus considered? Never tried one I always assumed they gave an armor bonus same as bracers and thus wouldn't stack so I never included them in my calculations.

[ArkoHighStar]

What's a shield clicky's bonus considered? Never tried one I always assumed they gave an armor bonus same as bracers and thus wouldn't stack so I never included them in my calculations.

no they are a shield bonus, and will stack with armor bonuses. As of mod 9 they will no longer stack with the tempest AC bonus though as it is being typed as a shield bonus

[Sauron]

no they are a shield bonus, and will stack with armor bonuses. As of mod 9 they will no longer stack with the tempest AC bonus though as it is being typed as a shield bonus

Thanks for the info, never knew that about the shield clicky;

So just to clarify overall what I now know:

- Dodge bonus's of different values do stack (except DT armor dodge bonus if chosen):

ie: chattering ring, chaosgarde, alch, and feat bonus all stack.

- Shield clicky's give a shield bonus not armor bonus, so it would be worth locating one to help my self buffing capability.

Cool, thanks for the info all. Much appreciated.

[Gratch]

- Shield clicky's give a shield bonus not armor bonus, so it would be worth locating one to help my self buffing capability.

Sadly all random generated shield clickies only last 1 minute and even all the raid/named shield clicky items are again...caster level 1 for 1 minute. There are wands of shield of higher levels found randomly, but then you need UMD or an arcane level to use them. And every Festivus, the jester's Titan clicky lasts a bit longer (7 mins?).

[Delacroix21]

To make it simple the current best endgame AC setup for pure monk is=

1. Icy rainment with +1 alchemy ritual (WF use Dtouched docent w/ritual)
2. +8 rr bracers (WF use chaosguards)
3. chattering ring
4. +4 insight shroud kama
5. +2 exception dex shroud kama
6. seal of the earth ring (i prefer just to use a barks +3 pot)
7. shield clickies (will take allot more gear or a rogue splash to even use a shield 5 wand, but were talking pure monk here)
8. Prot 5 item


Those are the items you need to aquire. Dex,wis,and str will vary by build so I dont bother to include those. Just gather those items for your monk if trying to max AC. As you can see WF gain a clear advantage in AC gear early on due to a superior DT docent (docents beat outfits anyway due to docent of defiance and titanic docent). The max AC monk will always be a halfling dex based monk however (have one). Currently rolling up my 3rd monk who will be WF as they are great tanking monks and gain allot of advantages (because timeless body stinks vs WF energy drain immunity).

[Sauron]

Good to know; just to clarify I wasn't looking for ultimate since I won't be changing my class etc... Was just looking to understand what I currently had and needed.

Knowing what I do now about dodge bonus's etc... The below is what I worked out as achievable for my character currently.

Class: Human, utilizing greater two weapon fighting.

Using DT Armor in Wind Stance level 3:

AC:

10 Base
4 Centered
8 Wis
9 Dex
2 Dodge (chaosgaurde)
1 Alch (DT armor)
4 Insight (DT armor) -Need to currently switch natural bonus for this one.
5 Deflection (DT armor)
6 Armor (DT armor)
1 Dodge (Feat)

50 Base AC

Self Buffed

3 Natural (potion)
5 Combat Expertise (Feat)
1 Haste Clicky (1 min)
1 Shield Clicky (1 min) - Need

60 AC

And Ideally one day and if I'm lucky the below is what I would want to achieve.

Using Icy Armor in Wind Stance level 3:

AC:

10 Base
4 Centered
8 Wis
9 Dex
3 Dodge (Chattering ring) - Need
1 Alch (Icy Armor)
4 Dodge (Icy Armor)
5 Deflection (Cloak)
8 Armor (Bracer) - Need
1 Dodge (Feat)
3 Dex (Kama: Shroud) - Need
4 Insight (Kama: Shroud) - Need

60 Base AC

Self Buffed:

3 Natural (potion)
5 Combat Expertise (Feat)
1 Haste Clicky (1 min)
1 Shield Clicky (1 min) - Need

70 AC

Summary, that's a big jump but for the rarity of the items involved I can see why.

Regarding my choice:

Pro for DT: Only two items missing to reach 60 ac self buffed.
Pro for DT: Free's up cloak, ring slot for something else.
Pro for DT: can use fists / kama or quarterstaff at the moment.

Con for Icy: Missing 5 items to achieve 70 ac here.
Con for Icy: Would be forced to use kama's more consistently due to the 7 ac from these which I'd loose when switching to fists / quarter staff.


Looks like DT is more achievable at the moment for my character and less situational dependent. Not sure I'll spend the time to fully craft my kama's with the current system in place, I also tend to switch between weapons to much for that extra 7 ac to be effective.

Thanks again for all the info.

[Brother_Solar]

If you are feeling more positive about keeping the DT armor method instead of maxing out by going the Icy+Kamas method, I would recommend making a Mineral II Greensteel item (most popular for the Min II item is the cloak, since it’s usually replacing a +5 Prot cloak) for the +45 health, +5 Con skills, Heavy Fortitude, and +5 Protection Bonus. You could then drop the +5 Prot Tempest bonus from the DT armor to pick up something else.

It's also a lot easier to make one item than two weapons.

[Delacroix21]

1 Shield Clicky (1 min) - Need

.

Shield clicky is +4 ac.