Random Rogue Questions...

[Laxxis]

Was thinking of starting a rogue - been trying to work stuff out with the character planner. I was looking to make an assassin /w good trap skills. I would like to have a drow. I would be a weapon finesse build.

My starting stats would be :

STR 10
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 12

I've seen Rogue builds with more CHA - I was wondering why?

Also - I would assume most rogues take TWF? - since 95% of the ones I've played with in DDO all have two weapons.

I'm having some troubles with choosing the feats - stealthy? TWF? Improved TWF? Nimble Fingers? What are some must haves for what I'm trying to do? I always take dodge - and I would get improved evasion for sure.

Just a few randoms - any help would be great.

-Lax

[Draccus]

Starting stats look fine. There is no "right answer" but you've got high numbers where they need to be high.

Charisma is good for a couple of things, but mainly for your UMD skill. Most rogues put a lot of value in this skill and want it to be as high as possible. I'm not a UMD fan so I have it maxed (19 skill points at level 16) but only started with 10 Cha. Some rogues have very high Cha and take Skill Focus: UMD feats to get very impressive UMDs. If you see yourself being more of a utility player, then Cha is a good place to put skill points. That's not for me.

Intelligence is good for skill points and rogue skills but GREAT for an assassin. If you pick the Assassin PrE, you'll love that 16 Int. If you're not going assassin, you can drop this to 14 and still have plenty of skill points and good trap skills.

TWF is almost manditory for a rogue who wants to do good damage. The vast majority of your damage will come from your sneak attacks so you want them applied as often as possible. The more attacks you get, the more sneak attacks you get so use two weapons. The TWF feat chain will consume the majority of your feats. Other feats to consider:

Weapon Finesse: If your doing a dex build, this is critical.
Toughness: PLEASE don't be one of those level 16 rogues running around with 220 hp. Take Toughness and all the Toughness enhancements.
Improved Critical: A great feat for any melee build
Skill Focus: UMD: Again, if you're a UMD type, this is a useful feat.
Combat Expertise: If you're working on a high AC, this is a useful feat; especially if you have a high AB.

Oh, and you get uncanny dodge just for being a rogue. No prerequisite or feat to take. It's automatic.

[Impaqt]

Was thinking of starting a rogue - been trying to work stuff out with the character planner. I was looking to make an assassin /w good trap skills. I would like to have a drow. I would be a weapon finesse build.

My starting stats would be :

STR 10
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 12

THose are pretty decent starting stats for a Finesse assasin.

I've seen Rogue builds with more CHA - I was wondering why?

CHR Skills Mostly. UMD, Bluff/Feint, Diplomacy, etc etc

Also - I would assume most rogues take TWF? - since 95% of the ones I've played with in DDO all have two weapons.

Yup, TWF is pretty standard on rogues

I'm having some troubles with choosing the feats - stealthy? TWF? Improved TWF? Nimble Fingers? What are some must haves for what I'm trying to do? I always take dodge - and I would get improved evasion for sure.

Just a few randoms - any help would be great.

-Lax

Any stealth you want to take can be done via skill Points/Items, No Feats are necessary. Same with Trap skills for the most part. Dodge is a waste of a feat on most builds. If your not getting your ac into the 50's before you hit your uncanny Dodge, your not mitagating enouhg damage to be worth a feat.

[ghettoGenius]

Any stealth you want to take can be done via skill Points/Items, No Feats are necessary.

On the subject of stealth. I am leveling a similar assassin build:

Drow
14 str
16 dex
12 con
16 in
8 wis
14 cha

TWF, Finesse, SF:UMD, ITWF, IC:Pierce, GTWF, (FoP or Toughness at 18)

However I have been reconsidering this path in favor of taking both SF:Hide and SF:MS for increased stealthiness (and maybe even Stealthy on top of that at 18 tho that might be overkill). The purpose is to leverage the maxed Faster Sneaking enhancement line and pretty much guarantee I dont get spotted, even on elite content at higher levels.

I don't have much experience with content past lvl 14 so I cant be certain how effective this might be, but I'm sure upper level enemies will have wisdom/listen/spot scores through the roof. I can learn to live without IC:Pierce (get keen weapons) and suffer through a slightly lower UMD but of course the TWF line would have to stay. My theory is those feats omitted can be augmented through other natural rogue feats such as Defensive Roll/Capstone (poor rogues toughness) and Slippery Mind (2 rolls makes up for low will save and lack of FoP ... kinda) which I'll get for free.

Any capped assassins out there care to comment on this approach? How about sharing your Hide/MS scores and their relative effectiveness? Also, are those devils and whatnot in Shavarath that have see invisibility able to spot you while you are sneaking? Thanks in advance.

[SableShadow]

Any capped assassins out there care to comment on this approach? How about sharing your Hide/MS scores and their relative effectiveness? Also, are those devils and whatnot in Shavarath that have see invisibility able to spot you while you are sneaking? Thanks in advance.

Any stealth you want to take can be done via skill Points/Items, No Feats are necessary. Same with Trap skills for the most part. Dodge is a waste of a feat on most builds. If your not getting your ac into the 50's before you hit your uncanny Dodge, your not mitagating enouhg damage to be worth a feat.

Previously said, and accurate in my experience as well.


The only SF that makes any sense is SF:UMD, because it stacks up favorably against even top tier gear. Even then, it only makes sense to take it if you're close to a critical number...the same logic as Dodge vs AC.

Stealth is as much about twitch and practice as it is about actual skill ranks; Monestary is very doable in the mid 40s on elite, and a 49ish gets you enough to stealth the puzzle quite handily.

Since you're looking at a 32 to 34 dex at 15ish, you can hit that quite easily with:
- 18 ranks
- 15 items
- 11 dex
- 6 Assassin II


If you like stealth, carry around cammo scrolls or invis clickies to pump up your hide here and there for things that don't have the "see invisible" tag.

I like stealthing (#3 on my hotbar regardless of my enhancement setup), but feats are a little too expensive for what you get, in my opinion.

[ghettoGenius]

Cool. Thanks for the additional information. Looks like Ill be continuing on my original path. I agree the stealth feats are quite expensive ... and apparently unnecessary for my build.

[SableShadow]

Cool. Thanks for the additional information. Looks like Ill be continuing on my original path. I agree the stealth feats are quite expensive ... and apparently unnecessary for my build.

The twitch factor of stealth is often discounted; I do solo practice whenever I'm a little bored or feel that I'm starting to get sloppy. Makes a difference.

Also, don't forget to keep an eye on your spot, and keep your spot gear up to snuff...you'll want to wear it while also wearing your hide and ms gear to track the stealth mobs, who are also usually the ones with the better spot/listen scores.

You may (or may not) find this a useful read, depending on how much stealthing you've already done.

[Trillea]

The twitch factor of stealth is often discounted; I do solo practice whenever I'm a little bored or feel that I'm starting to get sloppy. Makes a difference.

Also, don't forget to keep an eye on your spot, and keep your spot gear up to snuff...you'll want to wear it while also wearing your hide and ms gear to track the stealth mobs, who are also usually the ones with the better spot/listen scores.

"Takes One to Find One" kinda thing I guess!

[Accelerando]

IMO your int is overkill. Even for an assassin. The 1 or 2 added to your DC is better spent in real damage (str) will saves (wiz) or hp (con). Considering the Assassn III pre which includes free death attacks while you are sneak attacking, i can't really see anyone using the Assasinate skill at lvl 20 when not soloing. If you want a good soloer just roll a sorc or a cleric.