Henshin Mystic

[jboyd158]

Just some questions for the monk forums.

1. Do you think it would be justifiable to give Henshin Mystics access to Fist of Light AND Fist of Darkness to show their pursuit of true perfection?
2. What Riddles do you expect to see?
3. Do you think that Shining Star is going to be a Henshin Mystic only thing?
4. Would you guys find it awesome to get more combos then 1-1-1 and 1-2-1?

Please voice your opinions.

EDIT: After reading it myself I think I'm going to attempt to write up a speculation.
One change that would be required would be adding Henshin Mystic I as another way to get Fist of Light and Fist of Darkness.

Henshin Mystic I
Cost: 4 Action Points
Req: Monk level 6; Disciple of Breezes; Disciple of Candles; Disciple of Pebbles; Disciple of Puddles; Monk Wisdom I
You are a Henshin Mystic, a seeker of perfection. Your abilities of perception go beyond that of average people, giving you +1 to Concentration, Spot, Listen, and Search. You are patient, and as so you give more time to meditation then a regular monk and you may meditate one additional time per rest. You gain the ability to use the finishing moves Shining Star and Heavenly Interaction and all of your finishing moves get +1 to their DCs.

Shining Star: You use the combined power of earth, wind, and fire to set up harmonic vibrations within your enemy that force them to dance. A successful Will save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod) (Otto's Resistible Dance) (Earth-Wind-Fire)
(Originally had Charisma Mod in the Compendium, but that didn't seem any good.)

Heavenly Interaction: You create a overt display of the wind's, fire's, and water's powers, enthralling your target. A successful Will save negates this effect, and your target gets periodic save attempts. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod) (Charm Person) (Wind-Fire-Water)

First rank gives you x1.5 meditation time and 1 more per rest, higher finishing move DC, and access to Charm Person and Otto's Resistible Dance. I think that true balance would require basic mastery of all of the elements and above average wisdom.


Henshin Mystic II
Cost: 2 Action Points
Req: Monk level 12; Fist of Darkness; Fist of Light; Monk Wisdom II; Difficulty at the Beginning; Restoring the Balance; The Receptive Earth; Lifting the Veil
Your training as a Henshin Mystic has taken on new abilities. Your perception has evolved far beyond that of normal people, giving you an additional +2 to Concentration, Spot, Listen, and Search. You have become a master of awareness, and therefore your opponents get no bonuses for flanking you or extra damage for sneak attacks. Your meditation is second only to your survival, and therefore you meditate longer then before and you may meditate an additional time per rest. You gain the ability to use the finishing moves Riddle of Flames and Riddle of Awe and all of your finishing moves get an additional +2 to their DCs.

Riddle of Flames: You channel the powers of light, fire, and darkness to unleash a ball of blue fire that streams toward your target and explodes, dealing 1d6 fire damage per monk level and an additional 3 force damage per 2 monk levels. A successful Reflex save negates half of the damage. (DC 10 + Monk level + Wisdom mod)
(Higher level-range Fireball)(Pos-Fire-Neg) (Also a nod to Ryu's signature from Street Fighter)

Riddle of Awe: You demonstrate the power of earth, wind, and water. This strikes such awe in an enemy as to completely enthrall them. A successful Will save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk level + Wisdom mod)
(Dominate Person) (Earth-Wind-Water)

As you go along with this PrE you gain a x2 longer meditation and a total of 2 more meditations per rest, a higher perception, eyes in the back of your head, higher DC on finishing moves, improved fireball with force damage (at the cap increase it will hit for 20d6 fire damage + 30 force damage) and Dominate Person.

Henshin Mystic III
Cost: 2 Action Points
Req: Monk 18; Rise of the Phoenix; Monk Wisdom III
You are almost divine perfection. Your perception is godly, thus granting you an additional + 2 to Concentration, Listen, Spot, and Search. You have surpassed the need of sight, so you no longer suffer any disadvantages while blind. You are now a paragon of deep thought, and as such you can meditate for hours on end and an additional 2 times per rest. You have learned the Riddle of Invulnerability, thus granting you DR/- 10 and either DR/Epic 5 or an additional DR/Epic 5. You now have access to the Riddle of Divinity and Riddle of Death and all of your finishing moves get an additional +2 to their DCs.

Riddle of Divinity: You have mastered the secrets of divinity and how to use it. You gain the effects of Divine Power, and Shield of Faith as though they were cast by a cleric of your level. You and your allies also gain 20% concealment and +2 morale bonus to hit, skill checks, and saves.
(Cleric spells: Divine Power, Shield of Faith; Also puts Dance of the Cloud and Walk of the Sun on your allies) (Pos-Fire-Pos-Wind-Pos)

Riddle of Death: You pose a riddle so dark and ancient that all targets that hear it must make a will save or die. Those who make the save must makes a fortitude save. If the creature is a humanoid and fails, they are paralyzed. If the target isn't a humanoid and they fail, they are nauseated. Your target gets periodic save to attempt to break free of these effects. (DC 10 + Monk level + Wisdom mod)
(Arcane Spell: Wail of the Banshee; Targets that save are effected by Freezing the Lifeblood or Pain Touch) (Neg-Water-Neg-Earth-Neg)

Basically you gain higher perception, your meditation doesn't have a time limit and you can meditate 4 more times per rest, you get another boost to finishing move DC, you gain blindsight,you get a large buff on yourself (consisting of divine power, shield of faith, dance of the cloud, and walk of the sun), you get an AoE save kill, and freezing the lifeblood or pain touch if they make one save and fail the other, and you get more DR.

EDIT: I think a bonus to meditation would be in order.

[jboyd158]

Also, though it may just be wishful thinking, do you guys think that the Charisma mod for Shining Star is any sign of Ascetic Mage? Like I said... wishful thinking.

[Delacroix21]

Some of these are cool, but definately need tuning (no way we are getting firewall). What could be cool is if the PrC also adds +1 to monk DCs per tier, to make this the monk "abilities" PrC.


What I think this PrC needs you have allready somewhat listed=
1. A charm strike
2. A heal or stronger mass cure
3. Some cool buff to party finisher
4. some powerful spell damage finishers (like the burning hands finisher on steriods due to no max/empower/sup potency)

[jboyd158]

Some of these are cool, but definately need tuning (no way we are getting firewall). What could be cool is if the PrC also adds +1 to monk DCs per tier, to make this the monk "abilities" PrC.


What I think this PrC needs you have allready somewhat listed=
1. A charm strike
2. A heal or stronger mass cure
3. Some cool buff to party finisher
4. some powerful spell damage finishers (like the burning hands finisher on steriods due to no max/empower/sup potency)

Tried fixing it, what do you think?

[Delacroix21]

Riddle of Flames: You channel the powers of light, fire, and darkness to unleash a ball of blue fire that streams toward your target and explodes, dealing 1d6 fire damage per monk level. A successful Reflex save negates half of the damage. (DC 10 + Monk level + Wisdom mod)
(Higher level-range Fireball)(Pos-Fire-Neg) (Also a nod to Ryu's signature from Street Fighter)

Ok, here is what I have to say about the PrC you have created= WOW! I love the abilities (the charm,dominate, etc) as they create an amazing flavor PrC that looks like it will be a ton of fun to play, and yet is not overpowering at all. I am really suprised and impressed! This fireball ability is AWESOME! I think the Devs will love the concept of it as well (they have a great sense of humor).


One suggestion though= change the damage of the fireball to say 2d6 per monk level (maybe more). This is a finishing move meaning it wont be used often, and monks arent like other casters who can maximize, empower, +40% enhancement, +superior potency, +crit %, +2.75x crit multiplier. In fact I was running orchard today with a 16 sorc that crit over 1,000 with distegrate. So considering that a fireball that could hit for 20-120 damage is very unimpressive for a finishing move. 40-240 is much better! (considering it cant crit or for much balances it).


Really nice PrC, I will definately try it out on one of my monks if it ever becomes a reality!


EDIT
Just thought, make it force damage (as if it is a ball of Ki and not fire). Makes it useable on more targets, and ties it in more to a monk harnessing his ki into a powerful blast of force.

[MrCow]

This is a finishing move meaning it wont be used often, and monks arent like other casters who can maximize, empower, +40% enhancement, +superior potency, +crit %, +2.75x crit multiplier.

This isn't quite true. A monk can use potency/devotion/combustion to enhance things like Healing Ki and Breath of the Fire Dragon. My 15 monk/1 wizard gets a maximum of 60 damage on Breath of the Fire Dragon in typical circumstances, 90 damage max with Superior Combustion I, and 96 damage max with Superior Combustion I and Elemental Manipulation I.

I think you can add lore items on as well for critical hits (although I never tested it). Metamagics used to work when monks were first released, but that was taken away.

[Delacroix21]

I know potency still works, but I dont think they intended it to (why else would they have removed the metamagics). Either way looks like allot of fun, a buff to healing ki from this PrC would also be a welcome addition.


I am still hopeing DDO follows the format=

1. Ninja Spy= DPS PrC (a dps PrC that helps all monk weapons, not just pigeon wholes them to the use of 1 weapon as others have suggested)

2. Shintao Monk= Tank PrC (since no intimidate, probably just an agro boost and some defensive boosts)

3. Henshin Mystic= Flavor PrC (I say flavor, for as cool as some of these abilities are, they dont really count as dps or tanking boosts, more cool things to use with Ki)


P.S. I originally made a 14 monk/1wiz/1cleric that I thought was a ton of fun back in the day. I would in no way have called him overpowered either, cause he did sacrifice GTWF and some feats for metmagics. I really wish they hadnt removed the metamagics he was allot of fun and made monk abilities like "breath of the fire dragon" actually seem useful, which it isnt now =(.

[Borror0]

I am still hopeing DDO follows the format

That would actually be a sad format, IMO.

If let up to me, they should aim for:

• Ninja Spy: Offensive
• Shintao Monk: Defensive
• Henshin Mystic: Support

There are two big differences between my version and yours

The first one is that I use 'offensive' and 'deffensive' rather than 'DPS' and 'tank. There reason for this, is that want to avoid pigeonholing all tank builds into the Shintao Monk and all DPS monks into the Ninja Spy. Part of the reason for this is because both PrE take the monk into a totally different direction than where it was before, and thus forcing which one each player wants is bad form.

The other reason, that it would be more diverse if we have tank and DPS monks that were Shintao monks and others that are Ninja spy, rather than each being limited to one PrE. If there was more than three PrE, perhaps more specialization would be more acceptable but right now I feel it is better to make those PrE's a little more generic.

Note that I don't think one approach is more valid than the other. It mostly is a matter of preference.

The other big difference is that I made Henshin Mystic about support, rather than flavor. Perhaps you don't think that Henshin Mystic's riddle can be useful, but I do. If you remember, you said "The monk needs more ways to use his ki, and better ways then lousy 2d6 electrical strikes. This PrC seems to solve that." when I posted my Henshin Mystic preview.

You were right in that aspect, as that's the direction I was heading into.

I now question some of the approach I took at that point in time, to achieve that goal, but that's irrelevant. The fact is that Henshin Mystic can be built to improve the support capability of monks and make them useful to have in the party.

In fact, if I was Eladrin, this is the PrE I would put the most time into. Quite honestly, additional support capability seems to be something that attracts most of the current monk players and thus this is the PrE to not fail to deliver. I well designed HM PrE would have more success than a well designed Ninja Spy or Shintao Monk PrE.

[jboyd158]

That would actually be a sad format, IMO.

If let up to me, they should aim for:

• Ninja Spy: Offensive
• Shintao Monk: Defensive
• Henshin Mystic: Support

There are two big differences between my version and yours

The first one is that I use 'offensive' and 'deffensive' rather than 'DPS' and 'tank. There reason for this, is that want to avoid pigeonholing all tank builds into the Shintao Monk and all DPS monks into the Ninja Spy. Part of the reason for this is because both PrE take the monk into a totally different direction than where it was before, and thus forcing which one each player wants is bad form.

The other reason, that it would be more diverse if we have tank and DPS monks that were Shintao monks and others that are Ninja spy, rather than each being limited to one PrE. If there was more than three PrE, perhaps more specialization would be more acceptable but right now I feel it is better to make those PrE's a little more generic.

Note that I don't think one approach is more valid than the other. It mostly is a matter of preference.

The other big difference is that I made Henshin Mystic about support, rather than flavor. Perhaps you don't think that Henshin Mystic's riddle can be useful, but I do. If you remember, you said "The monk needs more ways to use his ki, and better ways then lousy 2d6 electrical strikes. This PrC seems to solve that." when I posted my Henshin Mystic preview.

You were right in that aspect, as that's the direction I was heading into.

I now question some of the approach I took at that point in time, to achieve that goal, but that's irrelevant. The fact is that Henshin Mystic can be built to improve the support capability of monks and make them useful to have in the party.

In fact, if I was Eladrin, this is the PrE I would put the most time into. Quite honestly, additional support capability seems to be something that attracts most of the current monk players and thus this is the PrE to not fail to deliver. I well designed HM PrE would have more success than a well designed Ninja Spy or Shintao Monk PrE.

What would you suggest to add? Anything I need to fix?

[Delacroix21]

I actually like the format of offensive and defensive (to me the same as dps and tank just different wording). I am not to keen about lableing the henshin as "support" though. While I agree the majority of his abilities should be support, I feel with that label the Dev's will go all out on the support role and ignore other aspects.


I think this "ki ball" is a great addition. The henshin maiintains the support role, with an added flavor of some extra damage. The same applies to the wail of the banshee like ability. The charms definately add flavor and crowd control to the class, and the dance effect can be used on mobs that you dont necessarily want to kill (perhaps turn them to stone instead of dance? like "disrupt the flow of your enemies ki turning them to stone").


For support what we should see is some defensive buffs (mass stoneskin or FoM maybe), but most umportantly a stronger mass cure finisher. That part of the PrC alone will make it on par in desireability between defensive and offensive. The Henshin will be toe to toe like the rest of the meele, and a mass cure serious would definately make him a welcome addition (i dont think the PrC needs a single target heal, mass cure is more fitting to support role).


EDIT
I just relized what all these Henshin Mystic builds are missing. How about= "Increases the duration of your finishing moves by 25,50,75%" just a thought.

[Borror0]

I just relized what all these Henshin Mystic builds are missing. How about= "Increases the duration of your finishing moves by 25,50,75%" just a thought.

I already had made this suggestion.