TWF vs. THF, splash damage, range, and all that

[Aaxeyu]

Yes, I agree.. For most players, and most classes. TWF is generally more dps. But for me, and anyone willing to play how I do, THF is the highest DPS in the game, period.

TWF fighters (tempest or not) still outdps you, period.

[FluffyCalico]

Like I said, if you believe you, or anyone on Khyber can out DPS Axer, come to stealer of souls and try to pull agro from me, it's not gonna happen bro =)

.

Again because you refuse to accept it. Aggro is not DPS. There are aggro creating items in game and aggro reducing enhancements ets. Highest aggro is somewhat related to DPS but is not a sign of who has highest DPS. The whole point of these items is so someone who doesn't have the single highest DPS in group can hold the aggro. You should know this.

By your logic in mon 9 the defesive fighter line has the most DPS because of all the aggro it makes lol

[boldarblood]

Yes, I agree.. For most players, and most classes. TWF is generally more dps. But for me, and anyone willing to play how I do, THF is the highest DPS in the game, period.

Aggro and DPS are not the same. Any fighter with a good intimidate will pull agro from you in 1 second.

Twitch THF is higher DPS than autoattack THF but is still behind TWF dps.

[maddmatt70]

lol comon norg. We know you love TWF, and your pro at it, but give me some credit here FFS bro.

We used to group together all the time. (and I've always attacked like this, since beta - don't recall you calling me a cheater before lol) You know my attitude towards any kind of cheat or exploit. Moving while attacking is absolutely not a cheat, exploit or anything else. If I believed it was, I would not post of video of how to do it.

And yes, ofcourse every swing does an attack.. Really not sure what kinda craziness your thinking there.

The attack while moving - does a glancing blow, then I do the attack while standing, which doesn't. So I do ~138 swings per minuit, and ~69.5 glancing blows per minuit.

I never called it an exploit and when playing a thf I agree somebody should strive to skip the later swings. I have a mineral 2 maul on my caster and will often divine power up and swing away. When I do that I try to skip the later attack sequences. As I stated previously I feel thf is not extremely far behind twf; i.e., it is competitive and have had thf players on shroud record speed attempts.

Like I said, if you believe you, or anyone on Khyber can out DPS Axer, come to stealer of souls and try to pull agro from me, it's not gonna happen bro =)

Aggro is not dps as the other posters have discussed. Even if this were an aggro competition Norg, who likely does less dps then Axer because fighters are gimped until mod 9, would pull aggro away because of fighter haste boost and he does not wear the tharnes set.

Yes, I agree.. For most players, and most classes. TWF is generally more dps. But for me, and anyone willing to play how I do, THF is the highest DPS in the game, period.

Pure ignorance. I have been in a trillion shrouds and seen first hand the dps differentials. In mod 9 the devs are adding additional thf splash damage which is in part to rectify this differential.

Let me state where I come from. I believe that assuming that mod 9 happens and it happens the way the devs have said it will, the dps differential between all classes will be relatively insignificant. In other words a paladin, fighter, barbarian, and ranger are all capable of doing very similiar dps. What will be different between the classes is how they do damage (spells such as zeal and ram's might, rage, weapon specialization, favored enemy, short buff, smite, etc.) and how they mitigate damage (ac, hit points, saves, evasion, dr, etc.).

I think the dev's goal is to balance the various classes and give people the opportunity to have fun playing different classes. That is my viewpoint if I want to and have fun playing my paladin I can and he will make as big a contribution as a barbarian. I do not understand people who fail to realize this and want people to play a certain class. Shrug, oh well their loss.

[Shade]

Aggro is not dps as the other posters have discussed.

Not always no, but usually yes. It depends on the monsters in questions AI, and some other factors. 99% of the mobs in the game agro based on DPS.

In the case I suggested - Sorjek. Agrro is 100% related to DPS. The person doing the highest DPS on sorjek has the agro - given no plus or minus agro modifiers are in play such as the hound set, WF enhancements, caster/rogue -hate enhancements, etc.

I have no such items or enhancements.

Other only factors that would effect it is if the mob found he could no longer attack the player with agro, he might reset or switch agro... Such as if one runs away, dies or just get incapped even.

If you wanna wait tell mod9 with ur kensai ftr to test it out, thats cool.

PS I agre the actual differences in 1 class to anothers DPS is relatively small, It's not like 1 player deals double the damage of another simply because of his class.. Similarly skilled, built, and equipped all classes are close and should remain so in mod9. The only ppl really that far behind are those still using shields or repeaters.

Personally, I think in terms of actual damage dealt over the span of a quest, by and far the largest factor is almost always the players skill, and not class/build or gear.

[Aaxeyu]

Personally, I think in terms of actual damage dealt over the span of a quest, by and far the largest factor is almost always the players skill, and not class/build or gear.

While you speak alot of nonsense, I really agree with this. Player skill is a huge factor when it comes to it..

[Borror0]

I only wanted to say I really enjoy following this thread.

[maddmatt70]

Melee DPS is optional (to useless) against Sorjak - who PUGs in is irrelevent.

Interesting reference to the Thelanis SOS Caster get aggo and healed by cleric method which heavily relies on casters and firewall. I would make the same comment to you regarding the necessity of casters in SOS and say there are many ways to skin a cat. I have run both my bards in there many times without a caster. I like haste (which bards have) and those air elementals are annoying on part 4 without destruction or FOD otherwise you could easily make the reverse argument of never bring a caster in there they just take up space.

ps: my calculators (which I verify in game regularly) still show/predict TWF >> Twitch 2HF for fights that matter (assuming equal maxing).

I would really like to see a red named dps calculation per quest in addition to the kill count calculation. That would really settle all this once and for all.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I went to lamannia with a friend who has a lvl 20 barb and when in FB III frenzy he was getting full procs on all his glancing blows and also the vicious damage on all his glancing blows. Now, with all the THF feats - your normal 5 attacks per round goes up to 9 attacks - ok so the 4 extra attacks won't have the high base dmg (or chance of crit) but they're still getting all the greensteel bonus effects and the FB vicious damage. The amount of dps he was able to put out was insane.

I think many peeple who think that twf will continue to out dps thf are going to be in for a shock when they see these FB barbarians running around.

Garth

p.s. yes I rolled a 20 on my necro check.