Suggested Change: Mass Heal

[sirgog]

I recommend the Devs change this spell to have a typical casting time (same as a Heal spell, as it has in pen&paper), but for balance reasons give it a 60 second cooldown.

This helps make it a useful spell to fire off in combat, but prevents it from becoming an 'easy-button'. In a quest like Enter the Kobold or Shroud 4-5, where the party is taking large amounts of damage, using this spell wisely the one time you get to cast it in the combat may make the difference between success and a wipe.

It also brings back a little of the feel of high-level pen&paper casters - where the highest level spells are precious resources, which a player will not use except in a truly tough encounter or dire situation, so that they are able to have these spells available when they **really** need them.

As Mass Heal is currently implemented, it's really only useful as an out-of-combat heal spell (although it is pretty spectacular at doing that)

[MetaSyn]

/signed.

[FluffyCalico]

I recommend the Devs change this spell to have a typical casting time (same as a Heal spell, as it has in pen&paper), but for balance reasons give it a 60 second cooldown.

This helps make it a useful spell to fire off in combat, but prevents it from becoming an 'easy-button'. In a quest like Enter the Kobold or Shroud 4-5, where the party is taking large amounts of damage, using this spell wisely the one time you get to cast it in the combat may make the difference between success and a wipe.

It also brings back a little of the feel of high-level pen&paper casters - where the highest level spells are precious resources, which a player will not use except in a truly tough encounter or dire situation, so that they are able to have these spells available when they **really** need them.

As Mass Heal is currently implemented, it's really only useful as an out-of-combat heal spell (although it is pretty spectacular at doing that)

Well you could have one cleric doing smaller mass healing while 1 sits back and does a real mass heal every 7 seconds to retop everyone off and heal them of all the stuff heal does.

personally I think vendors selling heal scrolls is what led to most of the issue we now have.

[moorewr]

I don't agree. I don't see any reason for such a long cool-down, nor anything in the PnP rules which would justify it.

What's more, although I think the casting time should the same as or be close to a normal heal, it is a huge overreaction to say that the current animation makes the spell useless in combat. You certainly need quicken, but with quicken it is admirably suited to mass healing in the Shroud, for example.

[bobbryan2]

60 seconds!



20 is a long time. 60 is an era.

[Borror0]

I don't have a cleric so my opinion on this matters very little but what I heard from guildies on Llama was they could see themselves mass healing spamming that spell for how much of a huge bump it was, in raids, with two clerics (so that the other one could help if there are any hiccups).

If that is the case, then that doesn't sound too bad.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I recommend the Devs change this spell to have a typical casting time (same as a Heal spell, as it has in pen&paper), but for balance reasons give it a 60 second cooldown.

This helps make it a useful spell to fire off in combat, but prevents it from becoming an 'easy-button'. In a quest like Enter the Kobold or Shroud 4-5, where the party is taking large amounts of damage, using this spell wisely the one time you get to cast it in the combat may make the difference between success and a wipe.

It also brings back a little of the feel of high-level pen&paper casters - where the highest level spells are precious resources, which a player will not use except in a truly tough encounter or dire situation, so that they are able to have these spells available when they **really** need them.

As Mass Heal is currently implemented, it's really only useful as an out-of-combat heal spell (although it is pretty spectacular at doing that)

60 seconds is an entire battle. That makes the 9th level spell far less powerful than the next closest cure spell. This is the equivilent of a MIRACLE spell after all.

I agree on the cast time equalling heal, but I think the cooldown should be more like 10 seconds - at the speed of our battles that's already a long time.

[moorewr]

I don't have a cleric so my opinion on this matters very little but what I heard from guildies on Llama was they could see themselves mass healing spamming that spell for how much of a huge bump it was, in raids, with two clerics (so that the other one could help if there are any hiccups).

If that is the case, then that doesn't sound too bad.

On my pure cleric (from memory, so the numbers may be a bit off):
Quickened Empowered heal, mass - roughly once every 9-10 seconds - 320 HP+ per - 68 SP
Quickened Maximized Cure Mod, mass - roughly once every 7-8 seconds - 100 HP+ per 70 SP

I certainly will try using heal, mass in the Shroud (and analogous situations). The numbers are pretty persuasive.

[sirgog]

On my pure cleric (from memory, so the numbers may be a bit off):
Quickened Empowered heal, mass - roughly once every 9-10 seconds - 320 HP+ per - 68 SP
Quickened Maximized Cure Mod, mass - roughly once every 7-8 seconds - 100 HP+ per 70 SP

I certainly will try using heal, mass in the Shroud (and analogous situations). The numbers are pretty persuasive.

One key difference, however: Quickened Max Mass Cure Mod - healing occurs within ½ a sec of hitting the button; Mass Heal takes so long that someone is likely already dead. (And then Mass Heal plus True Rez plus GH from someone else plus Protection from Elements is a LOT more SP than the Quickened Max MCMW and still doesn't fully rebuff them).


I suggested a 60 second cooldown because this would make the spell a precious resource like a 9th level spell is in PnP. 18th level Clerics can spam their 1st-7th level spells and think nothing of using them up (plenty more where they came from), but the few 8th and especially 9th level spells they get need to be used more discerningly, as they can swing a battle, but (due to the slots per day mechanic) each of them are on a 24 hour cooldown, which translates into about 6 encounters. That means one level 9 spell per 3 encounters (roughly) hence a 60 sec cooldown, although I'd be equally happy with a 30 second one.

[Borror0]

Mass Heal takes so long that someone is likely already dead.

Even if you spam it? I am talking about situations where we're continually taking a lot of damage.

[moorewr]

One key difference, however: Quickened Max Mass Cure Mod - healing occurs within ½ a sec of hitting the button; Mass Heal takes so long that someone is likely already dead. (And then Mass Heal plus True Rez plus GH from someone else plus Protection from Elements is a LOT more SP than the Quickened Max MCMW and still doesn't fully rebuff them).


I suggested a 60 second cooldown because this would make the spell a precious resource like a 9th level spell is in PnP. 18th level Clerics can spam their 1st-7th level spells and think nothing of using them up (plenty more where they came from), but the few 8th and especially 9th level spells they get need to be used more discerningly, as they can swing a battle, but (due to the slots per day mechanic) each of them are on a 24 hour cooldown, which translates into about 6 encounters. That means one level 9 spell per 3 encounters (roughly) hence a 60 sec cooldown, although I'd be equally happy with a 30 second one.

Most of my healing falls into two situations - spot healing, for which I use a regular heal, and set piece battles where I am maintaining a group - the Shroud is the classic example. Heal, Mass will mean I can switch between spot heals and zapping the whole party to full health, whereas you'll often find yourselves in groups where you are nearly always on timer for cure mod, mass and watching one bar head for zero.

No question MCMW or MCCW will stay on my hotbar for other situations.

As for "per encounter" thinking - I would love to have approached DDO with less spells to cast, shorter encounters with enemies with less HP, puncturing weapons working 3x/encounter etc etc etc. It is perhaps too late to even dream of changing all of that, and heal isn't the place I would start.

[Anthios888]

I agree with the OP. This spell needs a limit or the game will have to radically change to pose any challenge. Lag before or cooldown later, we'll all adjust either way.

[maddmatt70]

/Not signed. I am for the monsters having this spell along with other 9th level spells including implosion, mordekain's disjunction etc. I am not too concerned with the capabilities of Turbine for making DDO harder. They can give mobs and red names whatever they want - They could give random mobs epic level spells such as hellball if they see fit. Take away shrines and other features, etc.,etc,. They could make DDO really really hard if they wanted, but I doubt they will. This spell has little to do with whether DDO will be easier or hard, but rather the monsters and the dungeons have everything to do with whether DDO will be hard...

[Dark-Star]

Any old time EQ-ers remember the clerics healing chain for raids? "Cleric X starts, 4 second pause"!

[Tuney]

I remember in big guilds in EQ that had 6 clerics on at the time , 5 on just healing the main tank using heal chaining. and the 6th healing the clerics leaving the druids , shamans and any other class to handle group health.