Another Returning Player Trying to Resurrect Old Chars

[ivarthevic]

I think I know the answer to this already from looking at other threads that talk about TWFs with 60 AC, but here goes.

My level 9 rogue was made at the beginning and I took a couple (well more than a couple) of feats that appear to be useless now.

Human, True Neutral with current ability scores: str 13, dex 18, con 11, int 14, wis 10, cha 10.

Skills: maxed the usual suspects.

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Luck of the Heroes, Skill Focus: Disable Devices, Weapon Finesse.

I am wondering if it is worthwhile playing him, and if so under what set of changes – especially since I’m not willing to spend the plat to trade out Dodge and Mobility. Here are my options, as I see them.

Option 1: Go TWF and exchange Skill Focus: Disable Device and Luck of Heroes for TWF and Improved-TWF. At level 12, it is my understanding he will not have the BAB needed to get Greater –TWF but could get Oversized-TWF.

Option 2: Go sword and board: Skill Focus: DD for Weapon Focus: Piercing and Luck of Heroes for Spring Attack or Toughness. At level 12, get Improved Crit. Right now, his AC is low 30s: Base 10, +7 armor bonus, +7 dex bonus, +1 feat bonus, +1 natural bonus, and +7 shield bonus. I could add the +1 sword and +1 armor alchemical bonuses for 35 AC total.

My primary concern is to make him as useful as possible to the group. Would the extra +8 AC (+7 regular and +1 alchemical) from a shield make that much difference in the character’s survivability/drain on healing SP, at higher levels? Do the coming changes from mod 9 make TWF the way to go?

[Nezichiend]

I'd say go with twf, right now Sword and board is pretty much worthless and you can't get a good shield without losing your evasion. And DD and OL Dcs are so low anyways you wouldn't really need to spec to get even the hardest ones, especially since you are dex based and have a high intel.
Another perfectly good option would be to just farm favour on your lvl 9 rogue, get Drow and roll up a wizard or sorcerer. Or you could grind 1750 and make him again. Its hard to have a 28-pt melee class, they usually turn out sub-par unless you build them flawlessly and get good gear to compensate.

[Junts]

I think I know the answer to this already from looking at other threads that talk about TWFs with 60 AC, but here goes.

My level 9 rogue was made at the beginning and I took a couple (well more than a couple) of feats that appear to be useless now.

Human, True Neutral with current ability scores: str 13, dex 18, con 11, int 14, wis 10, cha 10.

Skills: maxed the usual suspects.

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Luck of the Heroes, Skill Focus: Disable Devices, Weapon Finesse.

I am wondering if it is worthwhile playing him, and if so under what set of changes – especially since I’m not willing to spend the plat to trade out Dodge and Mobility. Here are my options, as I see them.

Option 1: Go TWF and exchange Skill Focus: Disable Device and Luck of Heroes for TWF and Improved-TWF. At level 12, it is my understanding he will not have the BAB needed to get Greater –TWF but could get Oversized-TWF.

Option 2: Go sword and board: Skill Focus: DD for Weapon Focus: Piercing and Luck of Heroes for Spring Attack or Toughness. At level 12, get Improved Crit. Right now, his AC is low 30s: Base 10, +7 armor bonus, +7 dex bonus, +1 feat bonus, +1 natural bonus, and +7 shield bonus. I could add the +1 sword and +1 armor alchemical bonuses for 35 AC total.

My primary concern is to make him as useful as possible to the group. Would the extra +8 AC (+7 regular and +1 alchemical) from a shield make that much difference in the character’s survivability/drain on healing SP, at higher levels? Do the coming changes from mod 9 make TWF the way to go?

try this out:

keep dodge and mobility, add 6 ranger levels, take spring attack and do a tempest rogue: you will be able to continue him up to 14/6 at the 20 cap (which is soon, or add a single fighter level for extra feat/hp), and with his twf capability he will be pretty good (and nicer w/ the tempest enhancement to twf attack speed), and still able to excell at roguey things like traps/umd if you so choose (rangers get quite a few skill points).

the con is a little low but not so much that it will cripple you; you don't have the ability to add monk, but you could still get a servicable ac if you wanted to: more importantly, you can do darn fine damage either way.

the ranger levels will give you -free- twf and improved twf .. you will then take greater two-weapon fighting at level 18 (after you've taken your 6 ranger levels); you can then swap out your sf/luck of heroes for other feats.

I would do 10-15 ranger (6 levels), 16 fighter (take gtwf), then tack 4 rogue on top (take crippling strike and improved evasion as your rogue abilities).


thsi way you only have to swap out two feats, and you get an excellent twf/damage character with a lot of flexibility (umd, rogue functionality, improved evasion, bow strength+manyshot), which will let you be pretty effective even if you never do get a great armor class.

13 rogue/6 ranger/1 fighter will be a pretty nice damage dealer, even with a dex based character, and you'll have more weapon options than just rapier/ss to finesse with (like kukris) that you'll gain proficiency with.

[Timjc86]

This is what I would do, were that character mine (basically option 1):

1. Switch out feats in this order:
   
   • Luck of the Heroes <---> TWF
   • Mobility <---> ITWF
   • Dodge <---> Toughness
   • SF: DD <---> OTWF, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, or SF: UMD (I'd do PA)
   
   
   *** The ordering depends on which levels you took your original feats; I would need to know that information before being able to guarantee the ordering I listed would work ***
   
   
2. Take an Improved Critical feat (piercing since you've got finesse) at level 12 and GTWF at level 15.
3. Take Human Adaptability: Constitution and Racial Toughness 1-3 enhancements. Hitpoints is going to be this character's Achilles' heel.

I like to keep a shield handy, but only for blacking DR purposes. You can pump out so much more extra damage with TWF (assuming you've got the feats and can shed aggro) that a shield is usually not worth it.

[BattleCircle]

There is a third option...

6 ranger... for tempest

EDIT: Junts beat me to it

[LastNameRage]

You have a few options really. I personally would reroll him, but try a 13/6 ranger/1 barb or monk.

Barb nets you barb rage, 10% speed. (pretty solid dmg build)

With the barb you can still hit a decent str, 13 +1 enhancement, +6 item, +2 tome, +2 rage, +2 rams = 26. Not including madstone etc that is quite acceptable.

Take improved evasion/crippling strike (WoE raps ftw! now).
Get Toughness + enhancements
Pick up gtwf/PA/imp cruit pierce/slash
Acrobat 2 would be **** for the knockback immunity, assassin is sexy aswell.

With his stats, your best bet is the barb...haste boosted, tempest + haste spell + max sneak attack + tharnes + favored Enemy = mean dps. Hope you have an intimi friend handy


Monk nets you + to saves, potentailly 5 ac (20 wis/stance), wind stance/water aswell and speed.

Off the top my head ac would be something like.

10
13 (16 base dex, 5 lvl up, 1 enh, 6 item, 3 enhancement, 3 tome, 2 crafted item= 36)
4/5 (wis mod, 10 +2 tome, +6 item///water stance)
1 Monk/maybe?
4 Icy raimnent
8 Armor bracer's (raid drop?)
4 Shield wand (max umd)
+1 Ritual
3 Chattering ring
5 Protection
3 Barkskin pot
1 Haste
4 Insight (weapon)
==============
Total: 66/67 self buffed ac. This is of course max potentail, may have a mistake in there, meh.

With that ac, umdable heal scrolls, human imp recovery, imp. evasion....your quite survivable.

[Morlen]

Sword and board is pretty much worthless and you can't get a good shield without losing your evasion.

I don't know if it's a proficiency thing, but my main is an evasion tank that uses mithral tower shields and it doesn't matter for evasion... And anyway, any character can use a +5 heavy mithral shield with no attack penalties, as it has 0 check penalties.