Glancing blows in mod 9, tested a bit.

[Bobertt]

Kind of ran out of time but I went out and did a test on 150 glancing blows and came up w/ 23 procs on my lvl 9 wf barb. That's with Frenzied barb, improved 2h and wf apt 2. Would like to see a lvl 16 barb try it out with the 2nd rank of frenzied barb.

As long as you don't mind killing yourself the lvl 20 barb can do a lot of dmg given the 100% proc rate on the vicious effect though.

[Delacroix21]

Kind of ran out of time but I went out and did a test on 150 glancing blows and came up w/ 23 procs on my lvl 9 wf barb. That's with Frenzied barb, improved 2h and wf apt 2. Would like to see a lvl 16 barb try it out with the 2nd rank of frenzied barb.

As long as you don't mind killing yourself the lvl 20 barb can do a lot of dmg given the 100% proc rate on the vicious effect though.

Preety sure a TWF barb will kill themelves faster. =)

[Bobertt]

Preety sure a TWF barb will kill themelves faster. =)

Not when you run in and hit 10 mobs at once every other swing, thats a lot of return dmg

[Delt]

With:

Greater Two Handed Fighting
Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III

Using:

+1 Icy Burst Quarterstaff

I got:

45 out of 500 glancing blows to produce extra frost damage (9%)


Another curious thing I noticed, as I used the same scrag for all 500 glancing blow hits, is that auto-crit hits bestow a little bit of extra damage now.

Thanks for the testing/numbers. I stated before that the devs would half-ass this and include a ridiculously low proc % (as compared to what was needed to make THF viable).

80% (with full enhancements, GTHF, WF THF III and FB III) would have been the proper number for them to shoot for

[Draclaud]

Draclaud - This is what is posted in the compendium, so it should't take much time at all.

Supreme Cleave:
Benefit: Expend 10 hit points to attack all nearby enemies.

Supreme Cleave has no cooldown other than a standard 1 second normal cooldown for attack actions. As long a you've got the hit points, you can continue to hit the anim.

Hmmm...Makes me wonder if I should drop cleave and great cleave for the THF feats...

[Delacroix21]

I just realized something... A 5%chance to proc the vorpal effect, with a 9% chance of this occuring on glancing blows= .45% chance of every seeing a vorp on a glancing blow (sure hope they dont save!). You will see 1 vorp attempt every 222 glancing blows, man thats awful.


I have no idea why they "advertised" this new change as a cool way to vorp multiple enemies. Dont waste the WF enhancement points on this is all I can say.

[Hadrian]

I tried to test whether or not you could get a critical hit effect on a glancing blow.

First I hit a player in the arena with dex damage until he was as zero dex, then I turned away so that only glancing blows hit him and took some swings while he was auto-crittable.

I got weakening damage on 3 procs that gave the critical hit extra damage noise, but none of them gave the enfeebling effect.

[Shade]

My rough limited testing showed around ~30% with Greater Two handed and Frenzied Berserker II at lvl17.

I imagine the higher ranking prestige classes with add a larger percentage then the very cheap warforged racial enhancments available to any class. With the largest bonus coming from the capstone.

Regardless I found ~30% to be quite powerful. When it proc'd I certainly could tell, as I would often 1 shot most any mob in the vale on a non crit, something I have never done on live.. Quite fun.

Re: Supreme cleave and Frenzy info:
Check my thread here and bump it off the third page for us =)

[Shade]

I tried to test whether or not you could get a critical hit effect on a glancing blow.

First I hit a player in the arena with dex damage until he was as zero dex, then I turned away so that only glancing blows hit him and took some swings while he was auto-crittable.

I got weakening damage on 3 procs that gave the critical hit extra damage noise, but none of them gave the enfeebling effect.

Report that as a bug then as Eladrin did post that critical procs should work.

[Shade]

I just realized something... A 5%chance to proc the vorpal effect, with a 9% chance of this occuring on glancing blows= .45% chance of every seeing a vorp on a glancing blow (sure hope they dont save!). You will see 1 vorp attempt every 222 glancing blows, man thats awful.


I have no idea why they "advertised" this new change as a cool way to vorp multiple enemies. Dont waste the WF enhancement points on this is all I can say.

Perhaps as a standalone enhancements they aren't great. But combined with the full line of frenzied berserker and barb capstone - we have yet to see the impact, so it is a bit premature to discount them yet.

Also note even if your fighting just 1 target, the additional chance to vorpal applies to it, so suddenly we are better at killing vorpal-only targets then any other sword and board or two handed at least. And probably TWF too if you attack while moving and gain the full line of two handed enhancements/feats.

[Shade]

Also speaking from experience:
If we did gain near 100% chance, it would be insanely overpowerd.

As this did infact exist one time - early mod4 IIRC, all glancing blows did all speical effects 100% due to a bug. It was quit a sight to behold.. I would run into madstone crater, agro every mob in there and get them around me, then kill them all with a paralyzing greataxe taking no dmg as I would paraylyze everything around me every swing hehe. The dmg increase with other weapons was insane also, and that was at lvl14.

[Hadrian]

I would run into madstone crater, agro every mob in there and get them around me, then kill them all with a paralyzing greataxe taking no dmg as I would paraylyze everything around me every swing hehe. The dmg increase with other weapons was insane also, and that was at lvl14.

The balance of power has obviously shifted since then. I wouldn't say this would be overpowered when TWF is so far ahead as it is now in several areas.

[Shade]

The balance of power has obviously shifted since then. I wouldn't say this would be overpowered when TWF is so far ahead as it is now in several areas.

Thats your opinion, but as a player of 2 identical builds 1 being TWF and 1 THF with the same gear and nearly the same stats.. I would have to wholeheartedly disagree.

Dualaxer holds no special massive advantage over Axer. The only area I notice really any difference at all is using vorpals in the shroud. The part4/5 DPS seems roughly equal to me. We generally do part4 in 1 round regardless if we take mostly two handed playrs or two weapon, the large discrepancy that the math nerds post on the forums simply does not exist in the real game.

And im Mod9 I believe two handed will be greatly superior and that these enhancements will be plenty to pull the balance as such.

I have planned as a display to fellow barbarians to kill the pit fiend on phase 5 solo as quickly as possible (well just me attacking but a cleric and bard around to keep me fueled - but not attacking) on both my two handed and my two weapon barbarians at level20, to accurately display the difference in DPS.. As I find the math addicts calculation to be all too often.. flawed.

[BlackSteel]

I have planned as a display to fellow barbarians to kill the pit fiend on phase 5 solo as quickly as possible (well just me attacking but a cleric and bard around to keep me fueled - but not attacking) on both my two handed and my two weapon barbarians at level20, to accurately display the difference in DPS.. As I find the math addicts calculation to be all too often.. flawed.

If you'd like to test it in game, I've had a standing challenge on the khyber forums for over a month now for pure barbarian damage. But so far I've had no takers. Only conditions being you need to be pure and have mineral 2's. You'd have to bring dualAxer for it, as my only pure barb is THF. Plus it seems other than you & me, practically everyone else on the boards views the attack style as complete gimp. Altho I did convince Darkstar a few months back that its not all that bad with a different competition.

[Nick_RC]

If you'd like to test it in game, I've had a standing challenge on the khyber forums for over a month now for pure barbarian damage. But so far I've had no takers. Only conditions being you need to be pure and have mineral 2's. You'd have to bring dualAxer for it, as my only pure barb is THF. Plus it seems other than you & me, practically everyone else on the boards views the attack style as complete gimp. Altho I did convince Darkstar a few months back that its not all that bad with a different competition.

Add me to the list but you just have to know how to move and cant be lazy Not gimped at all and with the glancing blows id say pretty uber.

N

[BlackSteel]

Add me to the list but you just have to know how to move and cant be lazy Not gimped at all and with the glancing blows id say pretty uber.

N

i know, only time i feel gimped is when I go autoattack on the shroud portals b/c i'm eating

[BlackSteel]

Also speaking from experience:
If we did gain near 100% chance, it would be insanely overpowerd.

As this did infact exist one time - early mod4 IIRC, all glancing blows did all speical effects 100% due to a bug. It was quit a sight to behold.. I would run into madstone crater, agro every mob in there and get them around me, then kill them all with a paralyzing greataxe taking no dmg as I would paraylyze everything around me every swing hehe. The dmg increase with other weapons was insane also, and that was at lvl14.

I remember that as well, but the mob HP is also vastly different since then too. You're going to see between 2 and 5 extra damage dice from the weapon, with the average being 3d6 (mineral 2). Considering that glancing blows only happen on a 3/5 swings, or 1/3 moving. It averages out to 2 damage per extra dice, per enemy.

I cant see it being overpowered at all at level cap. Getting 100% in Gianthold or before would be broken on the mobs HP. Its comparing 200 HP orcs and trolls to 500 HP trogs or 3k HP devils.

[Delt]

Thats your opinion, but as a player of 2 identical builds 1 being TWF and 1 THF with the same gear and nearly the same stats.. I would have to wholeheartedly disagree.

Dualaxer holds no special massive advantage over Axer. The only area I notice really any difference at all is using vorpals in the shroud. The part4/5 DPS seems roughly equal to me. We generally do part4 in 1 round regardless if we take mostly two handed playrs or two weapon, the large discrepancy that the math nerds post on the forums simply does not exist in the real game.

And im Mod9 I believe two handed will be greatly superior and that these enhancements will be plenty to pull the balance as such.

I have planned as a display to fellow barbarians to kill the pit fiend on phase 5 solo as quickly as possible (well just me attacking but a cleric and bard around to keep me fueled - but not attacking) on both my two handed and my two weapon barbarians at level20, to accurately display the difference in DPS.. As I find the math addicts calculation to be all too often.. flawed.

I find everything shade says funny...and baseless. I agree that "theorycraft" doesn't measure up always ingame, but to claim there is no significant difference between THF and TWF is idiotic.

I made the same claim once...but I was just trying to **** people off. You, sadly, aren't.

[Hadrian]

"That's your opinion," makes no sense when what I said is easily verifiable with facts. DPS is fairly even in general but the new PrEs are going to grealty increase damage across the board for melees. Also, vorpal and stat damage are clearly advantage to TWF, and they are important in DDO.

I also play a THF barbarian and a TWF ranger with Caffeine on Sarlona. I am not a stranger to the 1-round part 4.

The best way to 1-round harry on normal is to get a bunch of lightning 2 strikes to go off. A bunch of TWF with lightning 2s are getting a lot more chances to do this because of their increased swing rate even if the THF is doing ~5%-10% more damage over time from normal swings.

[Soul-Shaker]

With:

Greater Two Handed Fighting
Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III

Using:

+1 Icy Burst Quarterstaff

I got:

45 out of 500 glancing blows to produce extra frost damage (9%)


Another curious thing I noticed, as I used the same scrag for all 500 glancing blow hits, is that auto-crit hits bestow a little bit of extra damage now.

From my testing was with a 16bard/1ftr wf. I started with just ITHF and then did testing by adding a feat then 1 enhancement at a time for WF aptitude. It felt like 2-3% per feat/enhancement. Kensai/Barb PrE enh I havent really tested though.