DDO Korea Season II

[likuei]

If you ahve not run with DDO Korea, you should ... they have fresh ideas on how to run quests and raids.

1. When you are running with DDO Korea, there is a high probablity that the run will be sucessful. They frequently open up slots to runs to help other people out (ie flagging, favor, ect.) more than any other guild that I have run with in the last three years. Oddjob has proven that the guild can be successful, hes solo'd high end content, learns the ins and outs and makes that knowledge available to anyone who wants to run with them and learn it. Theya re known for short-manning alnmost EVERY quest and raid in the game ... they are being community members by posting the run so others can join.

Oddjob solo's reaver and use to put an LFM up so you could get free loot. He would even extend the LFM up to the very end of the quest. This was when you could die and still get the chests. Jump in the quest ... die ... wait for him to finish ... collect three chests.

2. Their debt system works out real well for them. Their members take care of each other, because they primarily run with each other (language is part of the reason). The system they employ does not involve loot that they themsleves do not draw. To clarify ... there is no rolling on loot with guildmembers. If a member of the guild pulls an item, they pay their debt to their guildmember FIRST ... if its not wanted, they open up to the PUG to roll on. There is NO underhanded 'taking care of guildmembers first'. What the system does it this ... I pull something you need ... I pass it to you ... you owe me a piece of gear at some point ... I repay the debt.

3. They have run through all of the content ... and almost all of their guildmembers are at max favor. The guild leader posted this to encourage his guild members to join OTHER guilds to expand his guilds knowledge, make more friends and expand the life of their gaming experience (and practice their english ... typed and spoken). They are not trying to spread their guild philosophy on loot, they don't want to be bored and complain about lack of content.

[Anthios888]

I couldn't agree with the last post more. DDO Korea is a guild of good people and good players. This is a policy that takes care of guildies while actually discouraging guild only rolls - if you decide you absolutely have to have my Dreamspitter I just rolled, I get dibs on the Belt of Brute Strength you pull in the next run. If I were within that system, I would definitely have to think twice before claiming "guildies first" on most of the loot out there. A good and open policy, in my opinion.

[Clay]

To the people pointing the finger at DDOKorea's loot system...

What I don't understand is: isn't their loot their loot? its theirs to put up for guild only roll, general roll, leave in chest or loot and sell.

It is their loot.

Now unless you see thread after thread complaining about how selfish DDOKorea is as a guild and that they are actively cheating people out of raid loot then you really have no leg to stand on in your complaints. Everything I have ever read about them on the boards has been positive so why pepetuate this argument about a non issue?

You do with your loot what you want and they will do with theirs as they want.

[Comfortably]

To the people pointing the finger at DDOKorea's loot system...

What I don't understand is: isn't their loot their loot? its theirs to put up for guild only roll, general roll, leave in chest or loot and sell.

It is their loot.

Now unless you see thread after thread complaining about how selfish DDOKorea is as a guild and that they are actively cheating people out of raid loot then you really have no leg to stand on in your complaints. Everything I have ever read about them on the boards has been positive so why pepetuate this argument about a non issue?

You do with your loot what you want and they will do with theirs as they want.

Thank good someone else gets it! and on a different note, sorry for jacking your thread Odd.

[stockwizard5]

Good guilds find a way to have everyone on a raid contribute and everyone feel part of the team - that's DnD. Other guilds not so much ...

[Justicesar]

To the people pointing the finger at DDOKorea's loot system...

What I don't understand is: isn't their loot their loot? its theirs to put up for guild only roll, general roll, leave in chest or loot and sell.

It is their loot.

Now unless you see thread after thread complaining about how selfish DDOKorea is as a guild and that they are actively cheating people out of raid loot then you really have no leg to stand on in your complaints. Everything I have ever read about them on the boards has been positive so why pepetuate this argument about a non issue?

You do with your loot what you want and they will do with theirs as they want.

I don't think there is any finger pointing going on. This thread has been rather civil compared to other loot threads. That being said what comes around goes around. A few years back I was apart of a guild that had a point system that excluded pugs and also was in favor of officers. I was never an officer... so never got the bonus to loot rolls....but in time all my toons were decked out. The guilds were many and full so during that period I put up with questionable tactics....rude behavior to fellows...and extreme greed between officers and regular memebers. In the end the guild crumbled....but I got what I wanted knowledge wise. Problem after that was finding a guild that was fun to run with that did not harbor bad feeling for said ex-guild members. I thought the leadership and a few members were mean spirited.....but man did I find out how hated we really were....it took months to even get a chance. A year later and a few guilds down the road I'm happy to be with a guild that values respect among all peers at all times above a piece of virtual loot.....go Southern Tenant Farmers Union. So in the end....game on and do what you want with your loot....just be Honest up front and let the chips fall where they may.

[Samadhi]

BINGO....
In all the times I have raided with guilds that do not offer Pugs the same shot at loot....NEVER has said guild EVER explained their loot rules until now....with this thread. Please put this info in all your LFMs and or Bios. Everyone playing deserves to be able to make a choice on which group to join for a shot at loot. It is never a good thing to find this out at the end of a raid when the numbers start to roll accross the screen.

Is it really necessary to post in the LFM "your loot, your choice?" That's pretty much the defacto that DDO built for us (now). Anything else is presumptuous.


I'm all about discussing this further, but really it should be its own thread not a tag on to guild discussions.

[ddodevil]

Thank good someone else gets it! and on a different note, sorry for jacking your thread Odd.

What is going on here???

I'll take it as a good sign for the OP's point. Many people are going to know about our rule!!

After reading all the replies, I would like to leave some comments. This is my personal opinion.

- DDO Korea's raid loot system is designed to prevent arguements between guildies. Not to protect the loots from PUG members.

- By the way, there is no reason to protect or donate between guilds and PUGs because everyone have same chances to loot these days. If "Every PUG Players promise to open their loot to everyone at everytime", and if there is some way to force it, then it will be even to use open roll for the group containing guild and pug. But we all know that it is not really possible from past experiences. Even if it is possible, nothing is better than the old loot system.

- Basic loot systems depend on LUCK of individuals, unless you set a rule which is tend to control it. For example, Old raid loot system which gave 2 raid loots for a group mostly forced people to roll on it. In this case, your dice was your luck. In your next raid, another luck is just waiting at the end. After the changes of the system, chance to see a raid loot when you open the chest became everything. LUCKY ONE TAKES IT, and that is not changed at all. It is pointless to say 'we have to roll for that because we did it together'. It just changes forms of presentation.
(this is not against one of the replies of the OP, it was a common statement I heard a long time ago)

- Some people believes that it finally ends up with same chances if you run the raids a lot. Thats a LIE, already proved by mathmaticians. You never get better chances to get a loot because you failed before. Past record is your luck, I can say. Time may moderate it without garantee and therefore you need a insurance.

- As time goes, frustrated people occures. So, if we don's set a rule in our guild, people start to argue about it, hate each other, leave the guild, BANG!. Some guildes composed of most friendly people will not suffer this problem, but you must understand that DDO korea is not a group of people with same purpose. Frankly speaking, we are in the guild together just because we are Korean DDO players.

- Using past record to affect next raid loot table is a reasonable way in a static group like a guild. Operating carefully, we can minimize the sad people because of their misfortunes.

- Dept system is one of the simplest way to moderate the LUCK distribution. It is not perfect, and less effective if you want more fairness. In exchange, its advantage is that it requires very simple management.

[ddodevil]

If you ahve not run with DDO Korea, you should ... they have fresh ideas on how to run quests and raids.

1. When you are running with DDO Korea, there is a high probablity that the run will be sucessful. They frequently open up slots to runs to help other people out (ie flagging, favor, ect.) more than any other guild that I have run with in the last three years. Oddjob has proven that the guild can be successful, hes solo'd high end content, learns the ins and outs and makes that knowledge available to anyone who wants to run with them and learn it. Theya re known for short-manning alnmost EVERY quest and raid in the game ... they are being community members by posting the run so others can join.

Oddjob solo's reaver and use to put an LFM up so you could get free loot. He would even extend the LFM up to the very end of the quest. This was when you could die and still get the chests. Jump in the quest ... die ... wait for him to finish ... collect three chests.

2. Their debt system works out real well for them. Their members take care of each other, because they primarily run with each other (language is part of the reason). The system they employ does not involve loot that they themsleves do not draw. To clarify ... there is no rolling on loot with guildmembers. If a member of the guild pulls an item, they pay their debt to their guildmember FIRST ... if its not wanted, they open up to the PUG to roll on. There is NO underhanded 'taking care of guildmembers first'. What the system does it this ... I pull something you need ... I pass it to you ... you owe me a piece of gear at some point ... I repay the debt.

3. They have run through all of the content ... and almost all of their guildmembers are at max favor. The guild leader posted this to encourage his guild members to join OTHER guilds to expand his guilds knowledge, make more friends and expand the life of their gaming experience (and practice their english ... typed and spoken). They are not trying to spread their guild philosophy on loot, they don't want to be bored and complain about lack of content.

Everything is fine, but...why are you calling me oddjob?

[Justicesar]

Is it really necessary to post in the LFM "your loot, your choice?" That's pretty much the defacto that DDO built for us (now). Anything else is presumptuous.


I'm all about discussing this further, but really it should be its own thread not a tag on to guild discussions.

This discussion is perfect were it is as it lets people make a decision on what to expect from different guilds and make a choice. Odd seems to have a pretty sound setup with his guild and it works for them. I had never heard of the "Debt System" so while it may not be my cup of tea.....others may fit in just fine. My personal favorite within a guild is a roll off before the raid for common items that all may want. If my tank is 4th on the roll for Thranes Goggles for example its my choice to go with said tank....and hope 4 goggles drop and get a completion....or bring my Cleric/Wizzy/Bard instead. Then run the raid again with the tank and hope for a better roll on the next guild run right after. If you are in a decent size guild its very possible to knock out a few runs in a given play time...good times.

[Sirea]

As was said above somewhere, this discussion is by far the most mature discussion on loot I've seen on these forums that hasn't turned into a steaming pile of wank.

I respect DDO Korea's loot system as we also have a similar loot system (minus the debt system) in Ravensguard. Our guildies watch out for each other, I see nothing wrong with hooking up the people you are around the most. Someone else also mentioned, it's not like we'll just leave stuff in the chest if none of us need it.

Hats off to Oddlived and DDO Korea for having a system in place that keeps all these great players together and strong

[Comfortably]

As was said above somewhere, this discussion is by far the most mature discussion on loot I've seen on these forums that hasn't turned into a steaming pile of wank.

I respect DDO Korea's loot system as we also have a similar loot system (minus the debt system) in Ravensguard. Our guildies watch out for each other, I see nothing wrong with hooking up the people you are around the most. Someone else also mentioned, it's not like we'll just leave stuff in the chest if none of us need it.

Hats off to Oddlived and DDO Korea for having a system in place that keeps all these great players together and strong

Remeber that we also have a rule in Ravensguard, Cerial doesn't get any loot, ever.

[Sirea]

Remeber that we also have a rule in Ravensguard, Cerial doesn't get any loot, ever.

Not even when he starts to do his own puzzles?

[Comfortably]

Not even when he starts to do his own puzzles?

Never.

[likuei]

DDO Devil, I'm not calling you Oddjob ... He is simply a name that people on the forums know and a PERFECT example of how the majority your guild works with others.

[Isssssa]

Its oddlives not oddjobs

[Comfortably]

Its oddlives not oddjobs

Huh, I thought it was Odd the GM....you know cause he pulls off so much crazy ****...

[Quanefel]

To the people pointing the finger at DDOKorea's loot system...

What I don't understand is: isn't their loot their loot? its theirs to put up for guild only roll, general roll, leave in chest or loot and sell.

It is their loot.

Now unless you see thread after thread complaining about how selfish DDOKorea is as a guild and that they are actively cheating people out of raid loot then you really have no leg to stand on in your complaints. Everything I have ever read about them on the boards has been positive so why pepetuate this argument about a non issue?

You do with your loot what you want and they will do with theirs as they want.

Correct. It is their loot to do as they please. In the same token, they can NOT complain when the PuG's in the same raid group decide to not let that same guild have or roll for any loot the same way the guild who excluded the PuG's in the same fashion. Fair is fair.

Personally, I'd laugh at anyone who suggested that their guild raid loot system applies to me when I am not in their guild.

[ddodevil]

Some fresh Photos added for cooldown

[wamjratl1]

I'm actually surprised at all the shock over the DDO Korea loot rules. I figured most guilds have a "guildies first" policy. If I get it and don't need it, I'm offering it to a guildy first (if two want it they usually just decide between themselves without rolling). If no guildies need the item, it goes for open roll. Like a few have said, it's one reason to be guilded. I always ask guildies what loot they are looking for before we begin the raid so if I get the item, I can transfer it to them asap.

I thought this was pretty much common practice.

What's funny is, I have run with several of the guilds represented in this thread and never seen an issue come up with raid loot. And most of these guilds probably have all the raid loot they need so you really have a better shot at getting the item you want if you raid with them cuz most of their toons already have it.