So am I the only one who uses Charm?

[Emili]

Always had a bad habbit of charming the oranged nameds by mistake... I typically charm half the mob and let them fight it out. Also with charms I do take a few along with me to pull the initial agro and I will gather some more to offset for when it wears off, I guess that changes. The dispell will be nice as will save me from using my songs for song of freedom.

[dameron]

I have two capped enchanters and I doubt this will change the way I play at all. I rarely, if ever, lead a mob of purple hats around.

If they tend to stay in the same room, good. Having the option to Dominate a mob and have it follow you around, also good.

[Maegin]

Ive been running a virtuoso bard since it came out, never did spellsinger or warchanter. To be honest, with the addition of mass suggestion as a bard song, and the fact that virt 1 enthrallment has no save, I forsee virt 2 getting a type of mass charm/dominate with no save, assuming you used enthrallment or facinate to get them. Obviously it would be immune to red and stuff thats immune already to bardic songs, but It really just seems to fit the bill. But what if virt 2 allowed charming outsiders? that'd be sweet.

I know Ill be happy with something more offensivly to do with 24 songs per shrine and a huge perform skill with my bard cloak ^_^ othre than passing out inspire heroics/competence to everyone all the time, or having enough for tough raids AND especially being still able to keep up the rotation of standard att/dmg/hp songs.

Perhapps mass heal scrolls will have a tough UMD, but still useable, and spellsinger 2 will allow faster scroll casting too.

but as for charms being left in the room? sweet job there. Charm, and move on.

And now dominate monster is better translated, since you get to make them your biatch, cause they are dominated, instead of just a lil charm, allowing for safe passage or aid.

my 2pp.

[MrCow]

But if they will not follow you, what are you going to do?

I'll leave them behind, as the army of charmed things won't follow so I don't have the overhead of killing them later to worry about.

[VKhaun]

I kind of like it actually.

- mass charm room full of mobs

- dismiss mobs from charm one at a time

- watch/help other mobs kill it

- repeat

-OR-

- mass charm room full of mobs

- leave room

This is actually redundant and bears repeating again for emphasis.

Now: Charm 5 mobs and have 5 mobs follow you that you must deal with later, or stand around and wait for 20min while they fight things. You lose efficiency unless the quest is very short or it's a short distance to the next location where they can no longer follow you vs killing them.

Mod9: Charm 5 mobs and leave. First one to resist is dropped by 4 still-charmed mobs. Next is killed by 3, by 2, 1vs1, and you've got one enemy with low health that MIGHT be coming after you if you haven't gone past something to prevent it's following.


At the end of the day and considering the remove charm spell, I think this is an improvement, especially for low levels.

[Thrudh]

Now: Charm 5 mobs and have 5 mobs follow you that you must deal with later, or stand around and wait for 20min while they fight things. You lose efficiency unless the quest is very short or it's a short distance to the next location where they can no longer follow you vs killing them.

Do you actually charm monsters now? It's more like... charm 5 monsters, they break individually, the other still charmed ones deal with them, all while you're on the move...

If you continue to charm new minions along the way, you NEVER have to deal with the mobs that become uncharmed...

People always say I don't want to deal with them when they become uncharmed.. I can only assume those people are using mass suggestion, where they all break at the same time. Charm is vastly superior to that.

Mod9: Charm 5 mobs and leave. First one to resist is dropped by 4 still-charmed mobs. Next is killed by 3, by 2, 1vs1, and you've got one enemy with low health that MIGHT be coming after you if you haven't gone past something to prevent it's following.

This is how it works now... I'm completely confused by your post.

[dormetheus]

HUGE boost to charm. Thanks devs.

The worst part of charm (aside from having to dispel) was having them break near you, especially casters aoe dmg. It's not like the charmies could usually keep up with the party anyway.

Plus, parties didn't like charmies following them around. I guess they're paranoid or something. Now, the party just gets to leave them behind.

(Also, it boosts "misadventure" kill counts. *winks*)

[Humperdink]

This conversation happened in another thread already actually. What happy stuff are you people smoking? They've taken away the ability to mass charm a group and have them follow you, especially for a known fixed duration (Mass Suggestion). Instead they have replaced it with one single target spell where monster gets a will save every 23 seconds on average. (Dominate Monster duration- 3d6+12 seconds) That means a will save 3 times a minute instead of no save for 4 minutes. We're about to start fighting CR20ish (give or take a few points) demons and devils in their home plane. They are outsiders. That means high saves and high spell resistance. A save 3 times a minute....get it?

That means more of a mana drain as you have to cast each one individually. I personally think there should of maybe been a cap based on your level and perhaps your primary stat. In the tradition of a classic Enchanter, an epic level 20th level arcane caster *should* be able to mass enchant 5-6 powerful monsters in one casting and have them under his control, which includes following him. I agree being able to create mass armies of 30-40 followers was perhaps a little too much for game play balance and system resources.

Oh, and not being able to enchant Orange named is a fair change in my opinion.

[captain1z]

Changing the charm to work as they say it will would never have been a big issue if we had summoned pets that could take a hit and give as good as they get. They dont and the mobs do thus our desire to charm them instead.

[bunsdavy]

The way suggestion works, it's more like a very short term domination, as they take your "suggestions" even stronger than the "friend" you've made with charm would.

I like the change myself, I use suggestion as a bard. I'm sure the way charm works if you're running from an enemy that has one of your charmed buddies after him, then thats the way you could get the charmed guy to "follow" you.


So hopefully suggestion will be a "blue hat" spell (short term domination), and they'll follow you anywhere (since you suggested they should! ) but only for 30 seconds. or 1 minute extended. If you want a long term buddy you'll have to recast the spell, or use a dominate type spell.



The way the bard suggestion song works, i'm sure that also would be a "blue hat" effect, though it's not dispellable as magic (but the dispel charm abilty would still work) . And not sure about it's duration compared to the suggestion spell. You spend all the time playing music for some monster (fascination and the suggestion song) you expect a little more than a guy who's just going to sit there.


we're just lucky they havent made players get affected these ways... a vampire dominating a sorceror and fireballing/firewalling his own party would be funny but very tragic (or a mind flayer psionically dominating somebody)



I agree about summons needing to be tougher... they could at least add the "augment summoning" feat for conjurers which makes summons tougher.