Someone please explain to me.

[Aesop]

There are very few monster types that have DR based on a weapon damage type (slashing / piercing) some undead, some spiders, raksasha, I can't think of any more. I agree with archers being limited but I do agree transmuting was pretty well overpowered. I do believe this was changed for a reason and when mod9 comes out we'll all be saying 'ah, that's why the change to transmuting was made'

riorussell

Lich is DR Magic and Bludgeoning
Clay Golem is Adamantine and Bludgeoning
Skeletons are Bludgeoning
Zombies are Slashing
Raksasha are Piercing and Good
Plant Creatures are often Slashing (though none currently exist in DDO)


there are others but really what is bothersome is the undead ones... do you realize how many of those buggers we fight just leveling up. We must empty the cemetaries twice over just going from level 3-10.

Aesop

[pscomputers]

And anything with Holy or Holyburst on it kills them easily enough.

How many ppl run with Transmuters at lvl 3-5?

[Aesop]

And anything with Holy or Holyburst on it kills them easily enough.

How many ppl run with Transmuters at lvl 3-5?

I do... when its needed

I hate changing to non signature weapons. Transmuters helped me maintain the look and feel I was going for with my characters... mostly in Deleras where I had Zombies and Skellies all at the same time

Aesop

[Vivanto]

Basically our everythingbane is now (most likely)
-good
-evil (gs items are evil aligned)
-ada,mithral,cold iron,silver

what we loose
-slash/bludge/pierce (depending on weapon type)
-law,chaos

Too bad ranged builds can't shoot blunt/slashing arrows anymore.

[pscomputers]

I do... when its needed

I hate changing to non signature weapons. Transmuters helped me maintain the look and feel I was going for with my characters... mostly in Deleras where I had Zombies and Skellies all at the same time

Aesop

I just run past everything in Delera's and try to kill as little as possible.

You'd be surprised about how little you actually have to kill in there.

There's very little other house J quests worth running and the undead die fast with Sunblades or holy or pure good weapons.

I don't see the change to transmuters being a big deal. I'm adaptable to whatever turbine thows at me.

As your sig says. It's all small stuff. Don't sweat it.

[Aesop]

I just run past everything in Delera's and try to kill as little as possible.

You'd be surprised about how little you actually have to kill in there.

There's very little other house J quests worth running and the undead die fast with Sunblades or holy or pure good weapons.

I don't see the change to transmuters being a big deal. I'm adaptable to whatever turbine thows at me.

As your sig says. It's all small stuff. Don't sweat it.

I always end up in groups with noobs... so I end up having to kill things to keep them alive

I'm not really sweating anything honestly I just would perfer a slight modiifcation to how this will work

Aesop

[Gornn]

i would go Acid Goodburst.
.

me too

[Junts]

So I guess I'm still gonna go min II with the holy on the lowest tier. That seems to be what will be the best all around weapon. Now I'm wondering if it's worth the extra ingredients to add the transmuting to it though. Any opinions on that?

if you dont add transmuting to a min2 then the weapon is vastly inferior to almost every other potential shroud item .. it doesn't break any useful drs without transmuting (you need it for the silver/cold iron components)

every other shroud weapon is better than a mineral1 weapon, pretty much uniformly.

[Junts]

me too

1d6 damage > higher on-crit damage .. by a lot

or were you worried about dpsing the stormreaver?

[Gornn]

1d6 damage > higher on-crit damage .. by a lot

or were you worried about dpsing the stormreaver?

Do the math. It's actually not.

Good also works on everything. Holy doesnt.

Devils are also to immune to a lot of the acid blast which you'd get on a tier 2, they're not to good. I could go on.

[Junts]

Do the math. It's actually not.

Good also works on everything. Holy doesnt.

Devils are also to immune to a lot of the acid blast which you'd get on a tier 2, they're not to good. I could go on.

Ok. Math, gladly. edit: by 'per cycle' I mean, 20 attacks: 1 roll of each potential attack roll (1 through 20) and the appropriate critical hits that ensue, assuming 'hit on a two' and 'all crits confirmed', though lack of confirming crits hurts good burst significantly.

Holy damage: 2d6 per swing (38d6 per 20 swing cycle)
Acid burst: 1d6 (which many mobs to), 19d6 per cycle, which most mobs will be immune to, and variable bursting damage which will also be ignored by demons and devils: 6d10 on a rapier cycle, 8d10 on a khopesh cycle, less on other weapons


Acid: 1d6 per swing (19d6 per cycle), again, totally ignored
Good Burst: 1d6 per swing (19d6 per cycle), and assorted bursting damage: 18d6 per rapier cycle, 16d6 per khopesh cycle, less on other weapons.

against acid immune (or resistant enough to be immune to mineral damage), holy and good burst are 38d6 vs 37d6 worth of damage on a rapier, or 38 vs 35 on a khopesh (this is assuming all confirmed crits: if general horoth has fortification like arraetrikos, good burst will take a significant hit with both weapons)

If the mobile is not immune to the acid burst, then the difference also becomes smaller, as the acid burst vs acid equation favors the holy/acid burst weapon.

Good burst is only superior dps to holy if it is on a rapier or khopesh with at -least one crit range extension-, for dpsing evil mobs. With two extentions (oldstyle crit rage barbs) it is significantly better, and even picks will catch up at that point (slightly, as crit rage 2 picks do 20d6 over their cycle with the burst).


The 'does not work on neutral targets' argument is the only one that applies, however, which of the following are you dpsing with your mineral2?

The stormreaver
fire, air and earth elementals
some, but not all, golems, many of whom are immune to pure good/true chaos/true law and like effects

There are no other neutral mobs to mention in high-level content.

The 'good burst does better damage' argument is a mathematical fallacy but for crit-range-extended weapons of certain types. The 'neutral targets effected' argument is cogent, and it is purely a question of what you want to dps with your mineral. If you expect to use it on elementals and constructs, good burst might be applicable.

However, even the most significant-for-dpsing elementals (eg, shroud lieutenants) are evil and hit by holy.

Not trying to be a prick, but this is a massive misconception in the playerbase: holy is a significant improvement over good burst for almost all toons in the present endgame content, and since we're looking at a lot of demons, devils and yugoloths in mod9, there is littel reason to expect that to change.

[Raegoul]

I dont think i said anything different to what you said Junts only i said it shorter and without the math

[seldarin]

Greataxes, Dwarven axes the holy acidburst (i made acid goodburst on my greataxe)

Longsword, Rapiers go with Acid Goodburst

Khopesh people might debate over it but i would go Acid Goodburst.

I believe that goodburst is better simply because more creatures will have acid resistance and goodburst damage hits everything except for those with a good alignment. This means it affects neutral and evil creatures. Whereas holy only affects evil creatures.

The exact point i tried to get across to someone the other day when discussing mineral weapons, was that with the exception of good aligned creatures, everything is affected by goodburst, but some things have resistance/DR to acid. Cant think of any good aligned monsters that we fight, Lawful yes, but not sure on Good aligned. There argument was for holy/acidburst and wouldnt be swayed from it, no matter what was said. Guess its their ingredients, up to them, but goodburst hits majority.

My khopesh i went acid/goodburst.

[seldarin]

I always end up in groups with noobs... so I end up having to kill things to keep them alive

I'm not really sweating anything honestly I just would perfer a slight modiifcation to how this will work

Aesop

Nah, just run to the end, kill whats needed, finish the quest, their stones can finish out

[Aesop]

Nah, just run to the end, kill whats needed, finish the quest, their stones can finish out

I tried that once... I felt bad so I ran them through it again more slowly... I'm such a pushover sometimes

Zerging Noobs is like kicking puppies... it just makes them into mean dogs later.


Aesop

[seldarin]

I tried that once... I felt bad so I ran them through it again more slowly... I'm such a pushover sometimes

Zerging Noobs is like kicking puppies... it just makes them into mean dogs later.


Aesop

I feel bad at times too, but then i think of the amount of times i have died whilst gently nudging (well maybe i dont do it gently), those along who decide that despite being told not to fight everything, that they need a kill count to feel better. So in most instances in those kinda quests, i run past what i dont need to kill and only kill what i need to, if someone falls behind through not following instructions, i dont fuss about it so much anymore.

If someone is having issues and falls behind, then i will slow down for them, but if is blatant disregard for simple instructions, i leave them to their own devices.

[Aranticus]

The exact point i tried to get across to someone the other day when discussing mineral weapons, was that with the exception of good aligned creatures, everything is affected by goodburst, but some things have resistance/DR to acid. Cant think of any good aligned monsters that we fight, Lawful yes, but not sure on Good aligned. There argument was for holy/acidburst and wouldnt be swayed from it, no matter what was said. Guess its their ingredients, up to them, but goodburst hits majority.

My khopesh i went acid/goodburst.

ghaele in running with devils are good aligned. some humanoids in purge the heretics are also good aligned

as to good burst, it doesnt affect everything. some golems, most notable iron golems do not take damage from it

the holy vs good burst debate has been going on a while. to a L16 capped toon, holy > good burst. most of the mobs that you will want to dps are evil aligned. the neutral mobs that one would fast in the endgame are usually not a factor. take vale stuff for example. neutral mobs include rats, dogs, spiders, lions. these die easily with a few swings. the toughest i can recall are the dense earth elementals in ritual and rainbow. usually these are banished or firewalled. golems in rainbow are smited. the really tough ones to beat down are the red names which are mostly evil

that said, to players who are not focused on just the end content, good burst will be a better option as the portion of mobs immune to holy damage increases. for the OP, he doesnt grind the end content only, goodburst will benefit him more

[Junts]

The exact point i tried to get across to someone the other day when discussing mineral weapons, was that with the exception of good aligned creatures, everything is affected by goodburst, but some things have resistance/DR to acid. Cant think of any good aligned monsters that we fight, Lawful yes, but not sure on Good aligned. There argument was for holy/acidburst and wouldnt be swayed from it, no matter what was said. Guess its their ingredients, up to them, but goodburst hits majority.

My khopesh i went acid/goodburst.

holy hits the majority! 95% of the mobs you fight are evil!

[cluedout]

So in effect you have to have a Transmuter of Pure Good to bypass their DR.

just pulled a +4 trans of pure good flechlon that should go for millions of plat! taking offers! pm me or mail to saje need larges and plat WOOOOOOT!

[Vivanto]

Do the math. It's actually not.

It actually is.
19*2d6 = 38d6 holy
4*4d6 = 16d6 good burst on a pesh, even with kensai or fb is still pretty far.

Good also works on everything. Holy doesnt.

Valid, but most of the tough monsters are evil, pretty much all of them since mod 6+ content.
ps: and not even good burst works on everything

Devils are also to immune to a lot of the acid blast which you'd get on a tier 2, they're not to good. I could go on.

Acid blast is tier 3. And both pos-earth and earth-pos has acid components which are equally useless vs devils.