Restart AC

[Gadget2775]

This post is directly aimed at providing some feedback on Monks to a player who asked for it. New thread because the original was hijacked.

If you want to argue with another player about Monks and Tanking, DPS vs AC or anything else go make your own thread.

If you have comments about the builds presented (fixes, tweaks, improvements and adjustments) please feel free to post.


Builds will follow...At work...Next three post will be reserved for builds

[Gadget2775]

Strength Focused Monk...Dwarf avoids all penalties to primary Monk stats and allows for higher HP with low starting Con

REWORKED TO BETTER MATCH REQUESTED VERSION.
Tweakes;
Replaced Dodge w/Stunning Fist
Replaced WF: Bludgeon w/Stunning Blow
Wisdom -1, Con + 2

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(16 Monk) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 13
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               15                    17
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               7                    26
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         6                    26
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                     1
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  6                    23
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                  2                     5
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)

Starting wisdom could be dropped by 2 with extra points put into Dex/Con in order to secure ITWF/GTWF if a +1 Dex tome isn't affordable.

AC levels won't be maxed with this version...Likely to have a lowish AC untill level 11+.

Level 1:
10 Base
03 Dex 16
01 Wis 13 (-2 Fire Stance)
01 Protection (Korthos Isle Ring)
-------------
16 Standing
04 Mage Armor (Korthos Isle Clicky)
-------------
20 Base

Level 16
10 Base
06 Dex 22 w/+5 item
06 Wis 24 w/+6 item (-2 Fire Stance) (Requires all 3 levels of Monk Wisdom or 2 levels and plus 1 Tome)
04 Centered (1 @ 2, 5, 10, 15)
05 Protection
02 Chaos Guards
06 DT Armor
------------
40 Standing w/out Horribly difficult gear to obtain. Can be higher with tweaking for Max gear and outside buffs

[Gadget2775]

Dex focused Monk, Halfling for saves/size bonus/Dex bonus

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(16 Monk) 
Hit Points: 216
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 18
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            16                    22
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               7                    25
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         6                    23
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     2
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  3                     8
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  6                    20
Listen                2                    21
Move Silently         3                     8
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     1
Spot                  6                    19
Swim                  5                    10
Tumble                4                     7
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Evasion


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Lawful


Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Automatic) Diamond Body


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Abundant Step


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Automatic) Diamond Soul


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Quivering Palm


Level 16 (Monk)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Adamantine
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Will)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Will)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Will)
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey III
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Void Strike
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Monk Concentration II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

Much more of an AC build...Means reduced DPS, but that's how it goes. Some of this is made up for by the Halfling Cunning/Guile Enhancemnts. In combinations with Unbalancing Strike DPS receives a small kick for any target susceptable to Backstab damage...

For me I'd have dropped Str to a 12 and kicked Widsom up to a 16 starting...But its not a build killer.

Level 1:
10 Base
04 Dex 18 (+2 Air Stance)
02 Wis 14
01 Protection (Korthos Isle Ring)
01 Size Bonus
-------------
18 Standing
04 Mage Armor (Korthos Isle Clicky)
-------------
22 Base

Level 16
10 Base
10 Dex 31 w/+6 item (+3 Wind Stance)
06 Wis 22 w/+6 item
04 Centered (1 @ 2, 5, 10, 15)
05 Protection
03 Dodge Feat & Chaos Guards
01 Size
05 Combat Experties
06 DT Armor
------------
50 with easily obtainable gear. Farming required but 70-80 is obtainable for this build with rare equipment and buffs

[Gadget2775]

Rough day at work today...Pushing additional build till tommorow.

Note: Did start the Elf, but just don't have the energy to finish...

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Elf Male
(16 Monk) 
Hit Points: 164
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 13
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            16                    19
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    16
Charisma              8                     8

[Gadget2775]

Joseph...Plugged in the first build. As mentioned AC on this one is going to be a bit on the low side, but it's fairly balanced to provide HP and reasonable DPS. Lemme know what you think...Building a Halfling for you to ponder as well.

[Gadget2775]

Added the second build...One of the more painfull aspects of Monk is their relativly low AC while leveling...Barkskin pots and Shield Clickies help, but you'll still be behind until higher levels.

[feynman]

All I can say is that your 3rd build had better be an elf; sure, they tak a hit to CON, but that's the least important of the 4 monk stats. OTOH, they take no hit to STR, and still get a huge DEX boost from beginning stats and enhancements. What's not to love?

[Gadget2775]

I might throw together an Elf...Person I was originally discussing this with started with a Dwarf, but mentioned Halfling and Human. Waiting for him to see the first two and point me where he wants to go for the third one.

[Joseph]

Thank you for re-posting builds.

Let me type in what I did with my Dwarf build, and why I went that way (my thought process behind choosing Dwarf over another race)...

(32 point Dwarf - planning L20 Monk)
15 ST (8 build points) <-- +1 tome guarantees 3rd level stance
15 DX (8 build points) <-- +1 tome is easy to get / +2 is more iffy - but allows ITWF
16 CN (6 build points)
08 INT
16 WS (10 build points)
08 CH

I built with the expectation that there will be 4th (and possibly 5th) level monk stances. Since they are at 12, 14, 16 now, it stands to reason that the higher level stances will follow the same progression (18, and 20 if there is a 5th level stance).

With base 16 in a stat I can get there (though it will take some work), with base 15 in a stat I can also get there, though it takes more work. Base 14 in a stat requires too much to reach 20 in a stat (tomes and level up points).

I chose Dwarf over Human because the extra feat / skill points were not that big of a deal to me. The Con bonus was a larger consideration, however, so I went with Dwarf.

I plan to go strength build / stunning fist with this guy - and am willing to pass up a little AC in pursuit of that.

Human or Halfling monks are also builds that I considered - and I would be interested in seeing an elf build - but I really think Dwarf, Human, and Halfling are the builds to go with for Monk, in order of Dwarf, Halfling, Human (in my opinion, and for my playing style).

WF - Monk gets most of the abilities at later levels anyway (and with the new changes to level drain and stat damage, WF are now a little weaker than they were before)
Elf/DE - They take a hit to Con. Not something I am ok with.

I like my Dwarf, and he does wicked damage to undead - but he is currently getting a severe beat down by way of AC lacking. I am working on that though

You advice and help are greatly appreciated - thanks again.

[Gadget2775]

If you have concerns about obtaining a +2 Dex tome for your Monk I'd really suggest rerolling...Both ITWF and GTWF require 17, and are well worth the feat investment to obtain.

If you have room for the feat adding Stunning Blow seems like a natural choice to me. It's DC is affected by your Str and Dwarves have an Enhancement line you can use to boost it. Third thought on Stunning; one of the Devs stated there are a lot of fixes in for broken Handwraps w/Mod 9. If Weighted is on that you'll be able to add 10 to DC's for both (with Weighted 5% HW) and have a random (1 in 20) chance of stunning. I have a level 6 Dwarf Stunning Fist/Blow Monk I'm sitting on pending confirmation of Weighteds status in Mod 9.

Combat wise; how do you approach mobs? I've found my Monks survivability kicks way up if I let one of the Armored types head in first...

Level 1 Monk
10 Base
02 Dex 15
02 Wis 16 (-2 Fire Stance
01 Protection (Korthos Isle Ring)
04 Mage Armor (Korthos Isle Clicky)
--------------
19

Big bright light just popped...There's a bug with Protection items atm (listed as fixed for Mod 9) that causes your ac to go way negative. If I understand correctly any time you receive a temporary buff that has a higher Protection bonus than from a perm source your wearing you loose all AC. IE Korthos Ring = Protection 1. If you're getting hit with Protection from Evil or Shield of Faith from a friendly caster...

Level 5
10 Base
02 Dex 17 +2 item
03 Dex 17 +2 item/-2 Fire Stance
02 Centered
04 Black Widow Bracers
------------
21 Base

03 Protection (Shielf of Faith pot)
03 Bark Skin
04 Shield Clicky
------------
31 w/self Buffs

Think I'm missing something on your base though...Recall you mentioning a standing 24, might mean you can hit a 34 w/self buffs.

Also, if you don't mind me asking; what server are you on?

[Gadget2775]

Reworked the first build to better match request results.

[feynman]

Elf/DE - They take a hit to Con. Not something I am ok with.

The thing about elves is that they get the dex to really make your monk abilities shine (reflex save to make sure that evasion works, high AC to keep you alive) without taking a hit to STR, like halflings do (not something I am ok with).

Think about this: 2 points of CON = 1 toughness feat, on a feat-rich class.

So, you need STR for DPS, you need DEX for AC and reflex, you need WIS because it's a cheap way to up your AC, you need CON for...? HP? No, you can take an extra toughness. Fort save? No, because your saves are ridiculous, and you become immune to most fort save stuff, anyway. Ki? Get a concentration item.

Every other race has to sacrifice either AC or DPS (yea, yea, yea, halflings get sneak attack, but it doesn't work against half the monsters in the game), and all you're saving is one feat.

End game, I'm running around with ~375 HP from a base 12 CON. I also get to choose from 30 STR, 30 DEX, or 30 WIS, depending on stance, for DPS, AC, or high saves and DC's on special attacks (I don't actually use water much, but it does come in handy when you need the saves). I'm pretty sure that you can't do that with any other race.

In retrospect, I might have dropped a couple of STR points and put more into DEX, but that would mean adding weapon finesse; as it is, even though I run in wind stance most of the time, the +2 to-hit is not worth a feat.

[wiglin]

The thing about elves is that they get the dex to really make your monk abilities shine (reflex save to make sure that evasion works, high AC to keep you alive) without taking a hit to STR, like halflings do (not something I am ok with).

Think about this: 2 points of CON = 1 toughness feat, on a feat-rich class.

So, you need STR for DPS, you need DEX for AC and reflex, you need WIS because it's a cheap way to up your AC, you need CON for...? HP? No, you can take an extra toughness. Fort save? No, because your saves are ridiculous, and you become immune to most fort save stuff, anyway. Ki? Get a concentration item.

Every other race has to sacrifice either AC or DPS (yea, yea, yea, halflings get sneak attack, but it doesn't work against half the monsters in the game), and all you're saving is one feat.

End game, I'm running around with ~375 HP from a base 12 CON. I also get to choose from 30 STR, 30 DEX, or 30 WIS, depending on stance, for DPS, AC, or high saves and DC's on special attacks (I don't actually use water much, but it does come in handy when you need the saves). I'm pretty sure that you can't do that with any other race.

In retrospect, I might have dropped a couple of STR points and put more into DEX, but that would mean adding weapon finesse; as it is, even though I run in wind stance most of the time, the +2 to-hit is not worth a feat.

I agree with most everything. From a capped monks perspective, dwarfs are the least favorable race. When you are nigh untouchable hitpoints are not as important as when you are getting hit on every swing. I run around with 320ish hitpoints (no min2 greenweave yet), and I have no issues staying alive.

My only disagreement would be how valuable sneak attack is on a halfling monk. The only enemy that I fight on a regular basis who is immune to sneak attacks (not counting portals) is sorjec. This game may have alot of enemies who are immune, but the ones that matter most are not, so sneak attack from a halfling does a great job in bridging the gap for a lower strength.

Here is my quick breakdown to the bonuses for each race. Dwarfs have the least to gain in my opinion.

Humans: 30% more healing amp, extra feat, extra skillpoints.
Halfling: more ac, higher saves, halfling guile, dex enhancements so you can still be a str build, and have balanced stats.
Elf: displacement dragonmarks, dex enhancements so you can still be a str build and have balanced stats, typically can afford more toughness feats is more hitpoints are desired.
Dwarf: more hitpoints not needed, saves increase to spells not needed, +4ac to giants

[Brandiwyne]

/snip
Every other race has to sacrifice either AC or DPS (yea, yea, yea, halflings get sneak attack, but it doesn't work against half the monsters in the game), and all you're saving is one feat.
/snip

Half the monsters is an obvious overstatement, and the guile and cunning enhancements more than make up for the 2 points in strength difference.

[Gadget2775]

**SNIP**
Here is my quick breakdown to the bonuses for each race. Dwarfs have the least to gain in my opinion.

Humans: 30% more healing amp, extra feat, extra skillpoints.
Halfling: more ac, higher saves, halfling guile, dex enhancements so you can still be a str build, and have balanced stats.
Elf: displacement dragonmarks, dex enhancements so you can still be a str build and have balanced stats, typically can afford more toughness feats is more hitpoints are desired.
Dwarf: more hitpoints not needed, saves increase to spells not needed, +4ac to giants

Your break down of Dwarf doesn't feel quite right to me...
HP: Not as needed at higher levels (but not unimportant then either). I have a couple of Monk builds and all of them suffer from the same problem at low-mid levels, low AC for a Combat class. Low AC at lower levels means extra hp helps. At high levels, well, everyone rolls a 1 (Or 3 1's in a row) sooner or later .

Saves to spells: Most useful at lower levels (Pre Monk SR)

+4 AC to Giants: More AC vs Giants rocks

The one point I think was left out is starting stats. Dwarves don't have a negative applied to any Monk stats.

[wiglin]

Your break down of Dwarf doesn't feel quite right to me...
HP: Not as needed at higher levels (but not unimportant then either). I have a couple of Monk builds and all of them suffer from the same problem at low-mid levels, low AC for a Combat class. Low AC at lower levels means extra hp helps. At high levels, well, everyone rolls a 1 (Or 3 1's in a row) sooner or later .

Saves to spells: Most useful at lower levels (Pre Monk SR)

+4 AC to Giants: More AC vs Giants rocks

The one point I think was left out is starting stats. Dwarves don't have a negative applied to any Monk stats.

Halflings take a -2 to str. This is made up in two ways:
1. They get a natural +1 to hit, so if your are strength base you only lose 1 damge
2. With halfling guile you can afford to have +6 to damage, with unbalancing strike you can get that extra damage on anything that is vulnerable to sneak attacks. At this point the mobs that matter the most can be.

AC: Monks should never have an issue with ac at the early levels, unless you gimp yourself on equipment and pots. This is an issue for the new player, but I recommend not playing a monk until 32 points builds are unlocked. I have never had an issue getting his with my Monk, outside of a few mobs.

More hitpoints (to the point of sacrificing other things) only matters if you are getting hit alot. If you are getting hit alot, you are either a new player who cannot afford gear and pots, or you do not know how to play a monk. The increase to saves on a dwarf while nice is not needed. Putting more than 14 points into con on any monk means you are losing either ac, and or dps. That is why I do not like dwarf for monks. You are not really taking advantage of the extra con.

Don't get me wrong any race can pull off any class with a good player, but the benefits of human, halfling, or elf all outweigh the benefits from dwarf.

If I just absolutely wanted hp's then go warforged and get some more immunities, and with the docent of defiance some nice DR.

[rimble]

I think feynman and I post our same opposing ideas in every Monk thread. I don't want us to go back and forth on it again, but suffice it to say that I feel Halfling makes the best offensive Monk race, regardless of Strength or Dexterity based. You won't be holding aggro and that +8 Sneak Attack damage is unbeatable by any other racial Enhancement. With Unyielding Strike it's even more useful.

However, Dwarves have the benefit of achieving a 18 Con the easiest and getting Mountain Stance IV and easiest access to the best strikes available: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...53&postcount=2. Since they don't take a minus to any Monk stat, they can achieve an 18 in all Monk stats the easiest, making for easier access to all Tier IV stances.

With my Halfling starting 14 Con I'm gonna need a +4 tome or maybe my 20th level up and a +3 tome to get that last nice Strike of the Enduring IV.

Monk Grandmaster of Storms (Lvl 18) ("The wind is untouchable, as are you. Requires Dexterity 18.")
Monk Grandmaster of Mountains (Lvl 18) ("The mountain is eternal, as are you. Requires Constitution 18.")
Monk Grandmaster of the Sun (Lvl 18) ("The sun burns with an eternal fire, as do you. Requires Strength 18.")
Monk Grandmaster of Oceans (Lvl 18) ("The sea is always in motion, as are you. Requires Wisdom 18.")

Subenhancements of the Monk set are:
Ultimate Wind Stance: The wind stance focuses on movement, granting increased Dexterity and melee and thrown attack speed at the cost of reducing your Constitution while the stance is active. (15% Enhancement Bonus to attack speed; 10% Insight Bonus to attack speed; +4 Dex; -2 Con)
Storm Strike IV: You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 3d6 additional lightning damage, with an additional 3d6 damage on critical hits.

Ultimate Mountain Stance: The mountain stance focuses on endurance and defense, granting increased Constitution, damage reduction, and improved blocking ability at the cost of reducing your Dexterity and movement speed. While in mountain stance, you generate Ki when struck by opponents. (+4 Blocking DR; DR 8/-; +1 Ki on Get Hit; +5 Ki on Get Crit; -2 Dex; +4 Con; -7% Run Speed)
Strike of the Enduring IV: You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 12 additional damage, and 3d6 acid damage on critical hits.

Ultimate Sun Stance: The sun stance focuses on an aggressive offense, granting increased Strength at the cost of decreased Wisdom. While in sun stance, you generate additional Ki when you successfully strike opponents. (+1 Ki on Hit; +5 Ki on Crit; +4 Str; -2 Wis)
Fires of Purity IV: You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 3d6 additional fire damage, with an additional 3d6 damage on critical hits.

Ultimate Ocean Stance: The ocean stance focuses on redirection and the supernatural, granting increased Wisdom and saves at the cost of decreased Strength. While in ocean stance, you receive a bonus to armor class while tumbling. (+8 AC when tumbling; +5 to Saves; -2 Str; +4 Wis)
Flowing Water Strike IV: You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 3d6 additional cold damage, with an additional 3d6 damage on critical hits.

[wiglin]

I think feynman and I post our same opposing ideas in every Monk thread. I don't want us to go back and forth on it again, but suffice it to say that I feel Halfling makes the best offensive Monk race, regardless of Strength or Dexterity based. You won't be holding aggro and that +8 Sneak Attack damage is unbeatable by any other racial Enhancement. With Unyielding Strike it's even more useful.

Dwarves have the benefit of achieving a 20 Con the easiest and getting Mountain Stance IV and easiest access to the best strikes available: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...53&postcount=2

With my Halfling starting 14 Con I'm gonna need to put my 20th level up point there and pray for a +5 tome...which we don't know if those will even exist.

I just saw this.

Warforged are on the same level as dwarf for con. They just take a hit to wis. If you wanted the 4th tier mountain stance, than dwarf would be a good race. Although with +4 tomes coming, (allowing the 14 con build to get 18) I thing the other race benefits are better.

[rimble]

I just saw this.

Warforged are on the same level as dwarf for con. They just take a hit to wis. If you wanted the 4th tier mountain stance, than dwarf would be a good race. Although with +4 tomes coming, (allowing the 14 con build to get 18) I thing the other race benefits are better.

Fixed my post you quoted too...was getting the 20 Cha requirement for my Paladin stuff confused with Monk stuff...it's just an 18 ability requirement for Monk stuff, but I initially put 20.

[feynman]

Half the monsters is an obvious overstatement,

Undead make up a huge chunk of the game by themselves; yes, they thin out at higher level, but they're all over the place at low level.

and the guile and cunning enhancements more than make up for the 2 points in strength difference.

They more than make up the difference most of the time. The most aggravating thing that I see is a group going along fine, and then the halfling monk (pretty sure one of the old dump-str builds, but still) runs into a DR mob, and ceases to make any contribution to the group. I expect this to become more pronounced with mod 9 and the transmuting change; what are you going to do on shroud elite? I'll be pulling out a staff and turning on PA