Rangers get HiPS, but rogues don't?!?!

[kamimitsu]

From the release notes:

Ranger
* Hide in Plain Sight
o Prerequisites: Level 17 Ranger
o Benefit: You are a master when it comes to hiding in places others think impossible. At all times while sneaking, conditions are treated as two 'eyes' better - you can hide even in plain daylight, and it takes opponents longer to detect you.
* Fifth Favored Enemy
o Prerequisites: Level 20 Ranger
o Benefit: A ranger receives a damage bonus when fighting certain foes. The bonus starts at +2, and increases every five ranger levels.

Rogue
* Special Ability
o Prerequisites: Level 19 Rogue
o Benefit: A rogue may select Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Improved Evasion, Skill Mastery (selectable multiple times), or Slippery Mind.


SOooooo, Rangers get all the love. Rogues get shiate on a stick. Why do you hate rogues, Turbine developers?!

edit: Thought I would take a minute to cool down before I said something nasty. After about 3 minutes of reflection, I'm more angry than before. My rogue has two very pointy things waiting to embed in the responsible party's tender bits.

[MrCow]

Hiding in Plain Sight with the way so many quests are designed will ultimately do very little. Besides, you have Faster Sneaking as a rogue, which is generally far more valuable when doing stealth-based things.

Also, Hiding in Plain Sight isn't a rogue ability. Its something obtained by rangers, shadowdancers, and assassins. If anything, you should request that Assassin III adds Hiding in Plain Sight.

[vtecfiend99]

welllll, mrrogues don't get it in PnP so what's the reason to give it to them here???

[kamimitsu]

Yes, I realize that it is an assassin ability. This game has been very lax at following PnP rules and conventions, so I'm not sure that argument holds weight. Anynow, where is it on the Assassin line?! Not there.

Yes, I realize it isn't very powerful, but rogues are supposed to be the sneakiest (Assassin for certain) and I like that for "flavor" if nothing else. I have no problem with rangers getting it, as well they should. But that ONLY they can get it is a stinking turd on top of a pile a vomit.

[Timjc86]

On face value you have a bit of a point, but did you read what Hiding in Plain Sight actually does?

My strength based rogue has trouble getting seen if he wants to be, no matter how many "eyes" there are.

[Lithic]

Also consider that most of every dungeon is 1-eye territory already. There are very few places where they bothered to set the light level above "dark". Even outside in the bright sun of explorer zones you are usually in 1-eye mode. The only exceptions that I remember are near campfires.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Of all the things to be upset about .. you pick this? Something that is straight out of the Players Handbook? And why should the rogue be the sneakiest? Hunters know a thing or two about making their presence undetectable.

[QuantumFX]

Yes, I realize that it is an assassin ability. This game has been very lax at following PnP rules and conventions, so I'm not sure that argument holds weight. Anynow, where is it on the Assassin line?! Not there.

I have a very easy to do breathing exercise for you to try in these kinds of situations:

Breathe and then reread this:

If anything, you should request that Assassin III adds Hiding in Plain Sight.

See! Easiest breathing exercise ever! (Edit for clarification: I agree that it should be added to the assassin PrE line.)

Yes, I realize it isn't very powerful, but rogues are supposed to be the sneakiest (Assassin for certain) and I like that for "flavor" if nothing else. I have no problem with rangers getting it, as well they should. But that ONLY they can get it is a stinking turd on top of a pile a vomit.

Well to be fair have you seen that ultra cool, awesome level 13 ranger ability known as camoflauge. (And NO, I'm not talking about the spell of the same name.) Exactly.

To be honest the HiPS ability should be what HiPS became and HiPS should allow you to reset the search mechanic so you can ditch something that's aggroed on you.

Besides, you have Faster Sneaking as a rogue, which is generally far more valuable when doing stealth-based things.

Eladrin wanted to add the line for rangers as well. It's possible that it made it in and it didn't make the release notes.

[kamimitsu]

Of all the things to be upset about .. you pick this? Something that is straight out of the Players Handbook? And why should the rogue be the sneakiest? Does it not take skill to sneak up on a wild animal?

Again, not upset that Rangers have it. Upset that other characters that SHOULD have it, don't (Assassins namely, though an argument could be made for all rogues). It just hits a soft spot for me, because Rogue is and has always been my favorite class.

As for it being not so useful, I can think of a few places where this would be nice. Sure, it's not game breaking, but I'd like it anyway.

It does take skill to sneak up to wild animals, but as any hunter would tell you, silence (or masking the sounds of your movement) is far more important than being hidden. But I'm not here to take it away from Rangers, they should get it per PnP. AS should Assassins! (and I think, based on our enhancement system being vastly different to PnP, it should be available to all rogues meeting certain requirements).

edit: Not to mention that the Ranger version only works in "Natural Terrain". That means, not in dungeons. So it's good for explorer areas, and outdoor instances. So, a concession has been made that doesn't follow PnP. Yet, my assassin can't get it in a severely darkened dungeon (straight from the rulebooks) Oh and I don't get my assassin spells? I'm going for a walk before my head pops off! Wait, I'm at work, so I can only sit here and stew until my next student comes.

[MrCow]

I'm going for a walk before my head pops off! Wait, I'm at work, so I can only sit here and stew until my next student comes.

Then I suggest popping off the head of your next student. It makes for some nice stress relief and makes for great stories at cocktail parties.

[kamimitsu]

Thanks Mr. Cow, I need a chuckle. I sense a big bar of chocolate in my immediate future.

[QuantumFX]

Then I suggest popping off the head of your next student. It makes for some nice stress relief and makes for great stories at cocktail parties.

My breathing exercise is way easier! I learned it watching an episode of Life.

[kyebosh]

I'll bet my hat Rogues will get this too.
I'd like to think the devs are not that silly as to not give it to us.
Patience is a trait us Rogues are supposed to have in abundance, right?

[Shroonith]

Dont worry, rogues will get Ghola Fan.

[Draccus]

The clear message from Turbine is that Rangers are their "favored class."

The tempest line of enhancements makes them the best dual wielders in the game.
The Ranger Capstone makes them the best ranged characters in the game.
The HiPS ability makes them the best stealthers in the game (for whatever that's worth)
Against one of their FIVE favored enemies, they are best melees in the game.

I'm surprised they didn't give them Maximized, Empowered Firewalls, Finger of Death, Mass Heals, and Full Rez. They're on the way to making a game of three classes: Ranger, Sorcerer, Cleric.

At first, this really upset me and my guild got an earful of it last night. As stupid as it sounds, though, it's easy to understand why they did it.

Rangers make money for MMOs because Rangers attract casual gamers. Sure, the hardcore group, like the people reading this board, will pay to play the character they want to play. But the REAL MONEY in MMOs is the ability to attract the casual gamer.

Let's face it, casual gamers love rangers. They watched Lord of the Rings (Hey, someone should write a book about this movie!) and they all want to be Aragorn and Legolas. The see that DDO has Rangers and they give it a try. They log on and create Arragorn, Aaraagorn, Aragrn, Araggorn, Aragornn, Aragornnn. They make blonde elves named Legolass, Leggolas, Llegollas, Legolaas, and the ever-popular Lleeggoollaass. Cha-ching, another $15/mo.

Now, if Aragorn and Legolas SUCK and can't get a group because the experienced people tell them they don't want rangers, then *poof* there goes the $15/mo.

It's a business decision.

[hcarr]

The capstone is a true insult. This was just another slight to rogues for me. Maybe we can get them to add it to our list of class feats at some point.

[moorewr]

This NEEDS to change. It should at least be part of Assassin II or III.

(Also, it is time to roll out the "devs are all rangers" comic again.)

[Draccus]

This NEEDS to change. It should at least be part of Assassin II or III.

(Also, it is time to roll out the "devs are all rangers" comic again.)

This idiot seems to think rangers need MORE power: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=178320

[Lithic]

This NEEDS to change. It should at least be part of Assassin II or III.

(Also, it is time to roll out the "devs are all rangers" comic again.)

Ooooh never saw that, is it a real comic? If so, link please!

[PhoenixFire31]

I think it would be ok to add it to Assassin III but not lower. It is ranger 17, something few rangers in this game will probably go to (lets face it most people mc into ranger for 6 levels for Tempest.) But on the other hand with rogues having faster sneaking it might be a tad over-powering. In the end though, how many groups even LET the ranger/rogue/bard/monk sneak ANYTHING?