Rangers get HiPS, but rogues don't?!?!

[kamimitsu]

From the release notes:

Ranger
* Hide in Plain Sight
o Prerequisites: Level 17 Ranger
o Benefit: You are a master when it comes to hiding in places others think impossible. At all times while sneaking, conditions are treated as two 'eyes' better - you can hide even in plain daylight, and it takes opponents longer to detect you.
* Fifth Favored Enemy
o Prerequisites: Level 20 Ranger
o Benefit: A ranger receives a damage bonus when fighting certain foes. The bonus starts at +2, and increases every five ranger levels.

Rogue
* Special Ability
o Prerequisites: Level 19 Rogue
o Benefit: A rogue may select Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Improved Evasion, Skill Mastery (selectable multiple times), or Slippery Mind.


SOooooo, Rangers get all the love. Rogues get shiate on a stick. Why do you hate rogues, Turbine developers?!

edit: Thought I would take a minute to cool down before I said something nasty. After about 3 minutes of reflection, I'm more angry than before. My rogue has two very pointy things waiting to embed in the responsible party's tender bits.

[MrCow]

Hiding in Plain Sight with the way so many quests are designed will ultimately do very little. Besides, you have Faster Sneaking as a rogue, which is generally far more valuable when doing stealth-based things.

Also, Hiding in Plain Sight isn't a rogue ability. Its something obtained by rangers, shadowdancers, and assassins. If anything, you should request that Assassin III adds Hiding in Plain Sight.

[QuantumFX]

Yes, I realize that it is an assassin ability. This game has been very lax at following PnP rules and conventions, so I'm not sure that argument holds weight. Anynow, where is it on the Assassin line?! Not there.

I have a very easy to do breathing exercise for you to try in these kinds of situations:

Breathe and then reread this:

If anything, you should request that Assassin III adds Hiding in Plain Sight.

See! Easiest breathing exercise ever! (Edit for clarification: I agree that it should be added to the assassin PrE line.)

Yes, I realize it isn't very powerful, but rogues are supposed to be the sneakiest (Assassin for certain) and I like that for "flavor" if nothing else. I have no problem with rangers getting it, as well they should. But that ONLY they can get it is a stinking turd on top of a pile a vomit.

Well to be fair have you seen that ultra cool, awesome level 13 ranger ability known as camoflauge. (And NO, I'm not talking about the spell of the same name.) Exactly.

To be honest the HiPS ability should be what HiPS became and HiPS should allow you to reset the search mechanic so you can ditch something that's aggroed on you.

Besides, you have Faster Sneaking as a rogue, which is generally far more valuable when doing stealth-based things.

Eladrin wanted to add the line for rangers as well. It's possible that it made it in and it didn't make the release notes.

[vtecfiend99]

welllll, mrrogues don't get it in PnP so what's the reason to give it to them here???

[kamimitsu]

Yes, I realize that it is an assassin ability. This game has been very lax at following PnP rules and conventions, so I'm not sure that argument holds weight. Anynow, where is it on the Assassin line?! Not there.

Yes, I realize it isn't very powerful, but rogues are supposed to be the sneakiest (Assassin for certain) and I like that for "flavor" if nothing else. I have no problem with rangers getting it, as well they should. But that ONLY they can get it is a stinking turd on top of a pile a vomit.

[Lithic]

Also consider that most of every dungeon is 1-eye territory already. There are very few places where they bothered to set the light level above "dark". Even outside in the bright sun of explorer zones you are usually in 1-eye mode. The only exceptions that I remember are near campfires.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Of all the things to be upset about .. you pick this? Something that is straight out of the Players Handbook? And why should the rogue be the sneakiest? Hunters know a thing or two about making their presence undetectable.

[kamimitsu]

Of all the things to be upset about .. you pick this? Something that is straight out of the Players Handbook? And why should the rogue be the sneakiest? Does it not take skill to sneak up on a wild animal?

Again, not upset that Rangers have it. Upset that other characters that SHOULD have it, don't (Assassins namely, though an argument could be made for all rogues). It just hits a soft spot for me, because Rogue is and has always been my favorite class.

As for it being not so useful, I can think of a few places where this would be nice. Sure, it's not game breaking, but I'd like it anyway.

It does take skill to sneak up to wild animals, but as any hunter would tell you, silence (or masking the sounds of your movement) is far more important than being hidden. But I'm not here to take it away from Rangers, they should get it per PnP. AS should Assassins! (and I think, based on our enhancement system being vastly different to PnP, it should be available to all rogues meeting certain requirements).

edit: Not to mention that the Ranger version only works in "Natural Terrain". That means, not in dungeons. So it's good for explorer areas, and outdoor instances. So, a concession has been made that doesn't follow PnP. Yet, my assassin can't get it in a severely darkened dungeon (straight from the rulebooks) Oh and I don't get my assassin spells? I'm going for a walk before my head pops off! Wait, I'm at work, so I can only sit here and stew until my next student comes.

[MrCow]

I'm going for a walk before my head pops off! Wait, I'm at work, so I can only sit here and stew until my next student comes.

Then I suggest popping off the head of your next student. It makes for some nice stress relief and makes for great stories at cocktail parties.

[ChildrenofBodom]

Yes, I realize that it is an assassin ability. This game has been very lax at following PnP rules and conventions, so I'm not sure that argument holds weight. Anynow, where is it on the Assassin line?! Not there.

Yes, I realize it isn't very powerful, but rogues are supposed to be the sneakiest (Assassin for certain) and I like that for "flavor" if nothing else. I have no problem with rangers getting it, as well they should. But that ONLY they can get it is a stinking turd on top of a pile a vomit.

They try to follow the rules the best they can in a way it would work in an MMO. In Pnp, monsters don't have near the hp they do in DDO, even our characters have more hp than in pnp, but if they had implemented it exactly like pnp, this game would seriously suck...thus the changes to certain things like hp, and feats like endurance, and other stuffz.

I mean, wouldn't it suck if you had to remember to take your armor off before you logged or be fatigued next time you get on your toon?

[Timjc86]

On face value you have a bit of a point, but did you read what Hiding in Plain Sight actually does?

My strength based rogue has trouble getting seen if he wants to be, no matter how many "eyes" there are.

[wamjratl1]

On face value you have a bit of a point, but did you read what Hiding in Plain Sight actually does?

My strength based rogue has trouble getting seen if he wants to be, no matter how many "eyes" there are.

While HiPS would be pretty cool, you are so right lol. With the older way of doing part 5 of the Shroud, sneaking and pulling the Reds back one at a time, I sneak humped the Orthon and still couldn't get his attention...

[Maxwell1380]

From the release notes:

Ranger
* Hide in Plain Sight
o Prerequisites: Level 17 Ranger
o Benefit: You are a master when it comes to hiding in places others think impossible. At all times while sneaking, conditions are treated as two 'eyes' better - you can hide even in plain daylight, and it takes opponents longer to detect you.
* Fifth Favored Enemy
o Prerequisites: Level 20 Ranger
o Benefit: A ranger receives a damage bonus when fighting certain foes. The bonus starts at +2, and increases every five ranger levels.

Rogue
* Special Ability
o Prerequisites: Level 19 Rogue
o Benefit: A rogue may select Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Improved Evasion, Skill Mastery (selectable multiple times), or Slippery Mind.


SOooooo, Rangers get all the love. Rogues get shiate on a stick. Why do you hate rogues, Turbine developers?!

edit: Thought I would take a minute to cool down before I said something nasty. After about 3 minutes of reflection, I'm more angry than before. My rogue has two very pointy things waiting to embed in the responsible party's tender bits.

Beats what the clerics are getting this mod

[Junts]

From the release notes:

Ranger
* Hide in Plain Sight
o Prerequisites: Level 17 Ranger
o Benefit: You are a master when it comes to hiding in places others think impossible. At all times while sneaking, conditions are treated as two 'eyes' better - you can hide even in plain daylight, and it takes opponents longer to detect you.
* Fifth Favored Enemy
o Prerequisites: Level 20 Ranger
o Benefit: A ranger receives a damage bonus when fighting certain foes. The bonus starts at +2, and increases every five ranger levels.

Rogue
* Special Ability
o Prerequisites: Level 19 Rogue
o Benefit: A rogue may select Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Improved Evasion, Skill Mastery (selectable multiple times), or Slippery Mind.


SOooooo, Rangers get all the love. Rogues get shiate on a stick. Why do you hate rogues, Turbine developers?!

edit: Thought I would take a minute to cool down before I said something nasty. After about 3 minutes of reflection, I'm more angry than before. My rogue has two very pointy things waiting to embed in the responsible party's tender bits.

listen, its not that you're a rogue, its that you're a man: ladies have hips, and as we know, all rangers are women